Author Topic: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?  (Read 4502 times)

Ervin

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Peace everyone,

What I am asking is, If all the Sunni's, Shia, Sufis have, and do believe in the Quran, then why didn't that help them in rejecting the Hadith.

Why didn't God help them, since after all they did believe(and still do) in the Quran?
My real name is also Ervin

Man of Faith

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Re: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 07:42:37 AM »
Their interpretation of Quran is a big fail. That is why.
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Gahaiile

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Re: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 08:07:48 AM »
 :peace:

2:8: ومن الناس من يقول امنا بالله وباليوم الاخر وما هم بمومنين

and from 2:62: ...إن الذين امنوا... من امن بالله واليوم الاخر وعمل صالحا فلهم اجرهم عند ربهم

Translations: 2:8, and 2:62
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Zulf

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Re: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 10:36:34 AM »
Peace everyone,

What I am asking is, If all the Sunni's, Shia, Sufis have, and do believe in the Quran, then why didn't that help them in rejecting the Hadith.

Why didn't God help them, since after all they did believe(and still do) in the Quran?

What do people actually believe in? And why do they believe in that?
It's because they're taught to. It's basically blind faith with zero experience.
Fear prevents people to question stuff related to their faith.
In people's lives, it could be any book... the bible, the old testament, the talmud, the holy book of the sikhs, the vedas...
People believe what they believe because they are born into a certain family at a certain time in history.
Exceptions are few. Ironically, most people think they are the genuine exceptions while others are on autopilot.

So the question remains, now rather: Why would people be guided by the Supreme Consciousness (something being done to them = they are passive) to discard some religious books (hadith) just because they have blind faith in another particular religious book (quran)?

 ???
If you name me, you negate me.

Cerberus

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Re: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 02:58:35 PM »
Because what is the purpose of life ?

Is God in the Quran or is the Quran, like many previous books, a book to give more insight about God and the right path ?

Is the true challenge of life, believing in the Quran alone, or is it to act upon what is stands for ?

Out there in the field of life, what is tested, is it your willingness and desires that are put at trials or is it your beliefs in such or such book ? Then where does this fanaticism of such or such book come from ? Be it the hadith or the quran itself.

I'm sure that if one looks for God, then he or she will find God. Because God is here with everyone in the field of life, where they struggle, and it's usually in their struggle that they find God.

hawk99

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Re: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 06:42:21 PM »
Peace everyone,

What I am asking is, If all the Sunni's, Shia, Sufis have, and do believe in the Quran, then why didn't that help them in rejecting the Hadith.

Why didn't God help them, since after all they did believe(and still do) in the Quran?

Good question Ervin, and you can also ask, why do some reject the hadith      :hmm
Here are a few ayats you can ponder if you so wish.

6/112  And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from
mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion.

But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them
and that which they invent.

28/56  Surely you cannot guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He pleases, and
He knows best the followers of the right way.

15/39   He said: My Lord! Because Thou hast sent me astray, I verily shall adorn the
path of error for them
in the earth, and shall mislead them every one,

15/40  Except, among them, Your chosen servants.

 



                                                 :peace:
 

The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

reel

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Re: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 09:14:14 AM »
The view on Islam from the inside is extremely different.This is how things go in sects:

1. If you are Arab you will be told that only a scholar with an ?extreme? Arabic language degree can understand the Quran.

2. If you are a non Arab you will be told that translations are only for the sheikhs. You should stick to Arabic only. Most Non Arabs can read the language, but not understand it. Even in an Islam studies class, students are orally tested on the memorization of the chapters. The recitation is always in Arabic. 

3. Quran is mainly a chant book. The sectarians are assured that just by chanting the chapters they can attract rewards from God. But this has two ways. There is this thing called khatam, reading of the entire Quran. The one who does it gets his position elevated in his friend and family circle. Then there is this daily recitation of the specific chapters. Neither of them requires understanding of the Book.

4. The most fool proof method involves pushing the 5 pillars of Islam. The belief is that they are enough for a ticket to heaven. Many even don?t know that Quran is a Book of guidance.

5. Then comes the checkpoint of do?s and don?ts of handling the Quran. It?s like you need to wash yourself. Then hair must be covered with an Islamic fashion accessory. Quran must be accompanied by a holder called rihal.  The Book must be opened with the right hand and during the reading, its index finger must be used. But there is more. The place of the reading must be clean and quiet. There shouldn?t be any pictures. You should sit straight on the floor while facing the Qibla. And of, another one is treating Quran like a boogeyman and far more sensitive than acne prone skin. Apparently, even an accidental disrespect to the Book attracts the wrath of God. Storing of the Quran also comes with rules. I have been told that it must be kept at the highest level of the house.

Here is a page talking about 30 rules on how sectarians can handle Quran:
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/eofq.htm
After this, which average sectarian will dare  to read and understand the Book?

I have just realized that it is possible to ignore the Book without getting influenced by the sectarian scholars. They all say hadiths add details to Quran and Islam. This is the most amazing psychological manipulation I've ever experienced. Whoever came up with it deserves a gold medal. I remember how disappointed I felt towards the Book when I couldn?t find my ?true? Islamic practice in it. Fortunately, detailed hadiths came to my rescue. I was happy with the  "explanations" because they matched my "supreme" sunni practices. It was consistent. And the result? I stopped looking into Quran. It became a boring vague book to me. Spending time with hadiths made more sense despite the fact that my heart kept telling me, " something is rotten in the state of Denmark".  But there was tremendous peer pressure. Even when the hadith violated the Quran I couldn't protest. I didn't have the right to question. You just accept the hadith because it is from the Prophet.

God guides those who make an effort to look for guidance. But if you keep between you and him the Prophet and scholars you won't get anything from him.
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

Zulf

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Here is a page talking about 30 rules on how sectarians can handle Quran:
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/eofq.htm
After this, which average sectarian will dare  to read and understand the Book?

The deeper you go into traditional, sectarian Islam, the more it seems likely that traditional Islam certainly has no bright future ahead of itself. What goes around comes around. Figuratively (and as a joke) the angels must get sore from all the face palming they can't help but doing when they see mankind on Earth. Sadly, I never cease to get amazed by the pathetic mentality of human beings. I think I've been quite naive about humanity. :yuck:

Peace
If you name me, you negate me.

Man of Faith

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The deeper you go into traditional, sectarian Islam, the more it seems likely that traditional Islam certainly has no bright future ahead of itself. What goes around comes around. Figuratively (and as a joke) the angels must get sore from all the face palming they can't help but doing when they see mankind on Earth. Sadly, I never cease to get amazed by the pathetic mentality of human beings. I think I've been quite naive about humanity. :yuck:

Peace

Yes.
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amin

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For many Quran is just another Idol just like the Hadiths, so they are lost.. idols cant help, the sujud  accepting our ignorance and His sacredness helps, and I could see that this is only repeated many times in Quran.

adyq

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they are reading quran but practicing something else that never been found on quran ,,in their life  they never question anything, they take the easy path like majority of people , while quran stated majority of people is disbeliever. 

from quranic path

The majority of the people assume that if one understands the Arabic language, it means he is capable of understanding the Qur'an. They are also quick to dismiss anyone who has a point to make about the Quran's verses, if they are not an Arab or do not speak Arabic. A consistent feature of these sorts of people is that they themselves know little about the Qur'an because they never attempt to research the Qur'an directly. This is because of an intentionally induced inferiority complex of not knowing Arabic which gives them the excuses they need to stay distant from the Qur'an, as well as due to some other vain excuses. They never attempt to understand the verses of the Qur'an themselves. All of their views on the Qur'an are formed entirely by following other people and texts written by those whose trust they assume. They have only read the Qur'an's verses in text books in the context created by their trusted writers, or otherwise read the Arabic verses in ritualistic recitation, or in prayer without understanding them. Sometimes, he feels he has done enough by reading the translation of the few verses he recites frequently in prayer

"Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?

But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars" 29:2-3


milan

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What I am asking is, If all the Sunni's, Shia, Sufis have, and do believe in the Quran, then why didn't that help them in rejecting the Hadith.
Why didn't God help them, since after all they did believe(and still do) in the Quran?
,

Salaam Ervin,
No they don't believe the Quran. Ask any of them a question where the Quran gives a clear answer and the Hadith give a different answer (e.g., should adulterers be stoned to death?), and they will select the Hadith and reject the Quran. Ayat 25:30 gives a clear statement, that the messenger's people "have abandoned this Quran."

Salaam, Milan

good logic

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Also why should GOD or anyone enforce certain practices ? The choice is there :whoever wants to believe,believes and whoever wants to disbelieve ,has that choice available.

GOD guided,guides and will guide those who come with a sincere heart to the truth whatever religion they may have.

Here you are talking about a majority that are following their " Saadatuhum wa Kubaraahum wa Aabaahum...".
 Why should GOD guide those who do not seek His guidance?
Each save your own neck.
GOD bless.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Man of Faith

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A person guides themselves through whatever intelligent help they can find. If they choose bad guidance, this is because they do not use sound reasoning.
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imrankhawaja

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example is when a person who beleive in certain scriptures but at times he failed to carry all those commands due to the trick of body feelings..

example .. a person who believe in quran /bible  commit illegal sex
 people speak lie in daily matters
 people do things what they not suppose to do

lets make it short even the people who beleive in quran and hadith and they are unable to save themselves from backbitting..

we always have two sides of coin in every matter of life .. its up to us which side we will go..

lets move   further we have two sides of our ownself one is bodily another is spirtual
both works on different pattern which cause the choices of matter ,
thats the whole GAME we been provided with a thing that generate two choices everytime we will use that apparatus for whatever matter..

look at the animal he eat, kill, steal, mating without any fear
when we do it , its basically the requirement of animal body but it directly hit our spirtual side , thats only happen with humans becoz thats what the trick is..

just imaginne if we dnt have the burden of body then there was nothing we have to fear ..
and moreover what will we do without it , at the same time all wrong doings are connected with body

and the basic theme of (shirk) is still there ? what is it ? how you feel you are doing shirk? people who are doing shirk think they are rightly guided? is this the only thing that belong to not bodily but spirtuality ? thats why people understood it as unforgiveable gross sin of all ..?

good logic

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Imran brother,have a look here:
53:29
You shall disregard those who turn away from our message, and become preoccupied with this worldly life.
فَأَعرِض عَن مَن تَوَلّىٰ عَن ذِكرِنا وَلَم يُرِد إِلَّا الحَيوٰةَ الدُّنيا
53:30
This is the extent of their knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of those who strayed away from His path, and He is fully aware of those who are guided.
ذٰلِكَ مَبلَغُهُم مِنَ العِلمِ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعلَمُ بِمَن ضَلَّ عَن سَبيلِهِ وَهُوَ أَعلَمُ بِمَنِ اهتَدىٰ
53:31
To God belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. He will requite those who commit evil for their works, and will reward the righteous for their righteousness.
وَلِلَّهِ ما فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَما فِى الأَرضِ لِيَجزِىَ الَّذينَ أَسٰـٔوا بِما عَمِلوا وَيَجزِىَ الَّذينَ أَحسَنوا بِالحُسنَى
53:32
They avoid gross sins and transgressions, except for minor offences. Your Lord's forgiveness is immense. He has been fully aware of you since He initiated you from the earth, and while you were embryos in your mothers' bellies. Therefore, do not exalt yourselves; He is fully aware of the righteous.
الَّذينَ يَجتَنِبونَ كَبٰئِرَ الإِثمِ وَالفَوٰحِشَ إِلَّا اللَّمَمَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ وٰسِعُ المَغفِرَةِ هُوَ أَعلَمُ بِكُم إِذ أَنشَأَكُم مِنَ الأَرضِ وَإِذ أَنتُم أَجِنَّةٌ فى بُطونِ أُمَّهٰتِكُم فَلا تُزَكّوا أَنفُسَكُم هُوَ أَعلَمُ بِمَنِ اتَّقىٰ

Does GOD even mention any religion here?
It is all about right conduct. Muslimeen( Good,peaceful people ) V Mujremeen( Oppressive ,Aggressive,bad people).
Those who are scaremongering with their religion are wasting their efforts. It does not matter your or mine or anyone else's religion.
We do have the burden and the choice. A simple choice.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

imrankhawaja

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peace GL
i am also not talking about religion(mazhab) .. 

what i m talking is everybody commit things due to the pressure of desires programmed inside us..

the demand and supply of desires decide what way the "character" will lead us..

example the desire of sex will not see any scripture at that time all those things vanished in the conscious of human being only thing is to beat this desire , its also a type of fight between desire and accomplishing of that desire .. people try to stand/fight/achieve/overcome of this desire by different means .. the bible quran and hadith nothing works

all crimes are related to body like , killing,stealing,raping,assaluting,trouble making,land fight,money fight everything is directly connected with body , people wonder how come land fight connect with body , infact the land we require is to give shelter to our bodies hence everything in circle is connected with our bodies...

the second point to ponder is whats about shirk( is it a crime?) its not even related with body in any sense so the gross sin mean the gross , its not that simple how we learned by scholars .. shirk is a broad thing same like salat is a broad thing ..

the concept is associating something(.....) with God  in this something we have to dig more whats it real interpretation

disbelieving in God will not harm God in least , and it will not make any difference to God , he is already God and great and big..
may God help me understanding the real meanings of shirk what i am struggling from ages..

let say there is a king and i did not accept him as a king (is it a crime?)
or there is also a difference between crime(jurm) and sin(itham)

usually when hell prison mention we see there are mujrimeen(criminals) there
the one who did not do any crime in his life but he was born in a system that did not understand the nature of God so by default he is free of punishment isnt it?

God bless you

good logic

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Peace Imran.
You say,quote:
the demand and supply of desires decide what way the "character" will lead us..

I disagree,the direction ,priority and our own decisions do that. Why?
Because GOD has "Blown His Ruh in each one of us"-Fitrata Allah llati fatara Al Naas Alaiha-Submission to Allah leads to that Ruh being connected and grows to help us overcome desires and build a sturdy character.
The instinct is in all of us. Our choices in the end lead to our outcome.

I ,however ,agree that only with GOD s help will we be able to succeed.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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imrankhawaja

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peace GL
its metaphorical economical term what you quoted from my post however you missed the whole point of my previous two posts...

let me clear this thing first.. demand and supply of wish.. let say a person only satisfy when he kill that desire so its depend on the demand of that desire and supply of making this desire achieve..

example is horny person (demand) sleep with 3 Girls(supply) will definately kill that desire not only kill but he will do different experiments with that desire.. sometimes they even cheat with desire i .e using tablets for timming enhance and stuff..

demand and supply also understood by "salt" and "sugar" the area where 200 people are living there demand of sugar is for 200 so if you supply the sugar for 100 people the rest of hundred get sugarless or saltless lol ..

when the demand of desire is on height and the supply is on extra height then its really against the laws of biology to overcome the situation .. when you feel cold your body demand for hotness so you supply with a coat or jacket ... same when you feel hungry the supply of food fulfill that wish..

coming back to my original query .. see the section of shirk which is not connected with bodily , and then help me understanding this thing , although i have some thoughts too but its better if everyone else share how they see "shirk"

God bless you


good logic

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For me "shirk" is relying on any other creation to provide "good" or fearing  "Bad" (harm) from any creation- for both your physical and spiritual self-.
 Or to have other than the ultimate "frame of mind" to rely only on your creator for everything you require,even if it is provided ,indirectly, by the created.
To have the belief that only your creator has the utmost power ,control and care in your life and everything else s lives.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

 http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/good-logic/

imrankhawaja

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For me "shirk" is relying on any other creation to provide "good" or fearing  "Bad" (harm) from any creation- for both your physical and spiritual self-.
 Or to have other than the ultimate "frame of mind" to rely only on your creator for everything you require,even if it is provided ,indirectly, by the created.
To have the belief that only your creator has the utmost power ,control and care in your life and everything else s lives.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

thanx for this reply and its helpful too

interestingly i encounter somewhat similar situations in which i generate inside fear , that started from exams of school , then horrible people who have partially control on us like , teachers, elders

after that fear of finding suitable job, career

although God already told us that he will test us through fear so be patient..

interestingly God bring totally favorable result from which we suffer
the FEAR is a future outcome that possibly not exist

but we need more insight on this particular issue of "SHIRK" as we know its a gross sin and it must be way complicated compared to the inherited understanding we have..

big things are more complicated not that simple how we understand..

God bless you

ade_cool

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Re: Why didn't God guide the Quran believing Muslims away from the hadith?
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2019, 08:21:19 AM »
Peace everyone,

What I am asking is, If all the Sunni's, Shia, Sufis have, and do believe in the Quran, then why didn't that help them in rejecting the Hadith.

Why didn't God help them, since after all they did believe(and still do) in the Quran?

Salam Ervin,

[6:112] And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet— human and Jinn devils—to inspire each other with fancy words  in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have  done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
[6:113] And that will be listened to by the minds of those who do not believe in the Hereafter, and they will accept it, and they will  take of it what they will.

God has allowed shahih hadith books to "happen" to distinguish those who truly believe in hereafter and those who say they believe in hereafter.


Wassalam,
Ade