Handshake

[si di]

Salam to all ,
There is a hadith linked with a vers of the quran which indicates that the Prophet did not shake Hands with woman according to some ulama.
Aischa, the wife of the Prophet  said: 'When the believing women migrated (to Medina) and came to the Prophet they would be examined in accordance with the words in the Quran:

"O Prophet! When believing women come to you to give you the Bay?ah (pledge of allegiance), that they will not associate anything in worship with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood , and that they will not disobey you in any Ma'ruf then accept their Bay?ah (pledge of allegiance), and ask Allah to forgive them, Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful". [Noble Quran 60:12]

Any of the believing women who accepted the conditions of the verse and agreed to live by them were considered to have offered themselves for giving their oaths of allegiance. When they declared their commitment to do so, the Prophet would say to them, "You may go. I have confirmed your allegiance."
I swear by Allah, the Prophet's hand never touched the hand of a woman. He would receive their oath of allegiance by spoken declaration. I swear by Allah, the Prophet never took any vow from women except what Allah had ordered him to take and his palm never touched the palm of a woman. When he had taken their pledge, he would tell them he had taken their oath from them orally. ' [Sahih Muslim]

But is this habit not contradicted to sura 4:86"When ye are greeted with a greeting, greet ye with a better than it or return it. Lo! Allah taketh count of all things."

If handshake is a form or part of greeting then this ayat is abbrogating the first ayat mentioned above .And if the custom is to bow down like in Asia ,i bow too and maybe a second time or third to greet in better return?

[good logic]

Peace.
60:12 does not mention any handshake!!! Why do some people mix and match to confirm some odd stories that might be fabricated?

The verse has nothing to do with handshakes full stop. The verse does not mention any handshakes.

So how can it be linked to greeting(4:86)?

Therefore,whatever assumptions/stories/guesswork..that are made regarding 60:12 are irrelevant. The verse has nothing to do with how greetings are performed . No issue or argument follows.
GOD bless.
Peace.

[huruf]

I like milk.

When I am thirsty I drink water.

Are those two sentences contradictory? Obviously not and the two ayas quoted are not contradictory.

On the other hand, while some hadiths are not significant (for me in the cases I might understand them, this hadith that has been quoted I find that it has a lot of significance, because I think we all have read or heard of purported gurus or male sect leaders or proselitists that seet out women for the gurus usage and abuse.

So that hadith in fact what it amounts to is that the prophet took good care of not misleading or give any possibility to the    idea that he was trying to gain some special favours from women on account of him being the prophet (or "sect leader").  Nothing to do with greetings or other social behaviour.

Salaam

[Cerberus]

this is also a men's issue, because it's ridiculously annoying to try to greet people and then there is some girl say " I DONT SHAKE HANDS " out of nowhere

[si di]

Salam ,

I see this ayats has nothing to with eachother.

So this Antihandshake was specially performed for the Prophet like the veilissue of the Prophet females Is this what you are saying Huruf?

So when did it become a custom not to shake Hands with the opps Gender if there is not an order in the Book?

[Man of Faith]

Salam ,

I see this ayats has nothing to with eachother.

So this Antihandshake was specially performed for the Prophet like the veilissue of the Prophet females Is this what you are saying Huruf?

So when did it become a custom not to shake Hands with the opps Gender if there is not an order in the Book?

It stems from doctrinal ideas about minimizing the arousal which may occur in either gender when interacting with each other. It has perhaps taken ridiculous proportions and people consider it to be zealous divine laws but it is rather a courtesy between each gender to be of a help.

I find that to be handshaken is not a right of any individual and one has to have empathy why a male does not wish to handshake a female and vice versa. There are other ways of showing one has a friendly attitude.

Besides, why must humans always have to go physical to show care. Humans carry diseases and you never know when you encounter someone diseased and you might not know I'd you are diseased yourself. Better to minimize body contact with everyone in the world.

Be well
Amenuel

[HP_TECH]

Salam to all ,
There is a hadith linked with a vers of the quran which indicates that the Prophet did not shake Hands with woman according to some ulama.
Aischa, the wife of the Prophet  said: 'When the believing women migrated (to Medina) and came to the Prophet they would be examined in accordance with the words in the Quran:

"O Prophet! When believing women come to you to give you the Bay?ah (pledge of allegiance), that they will not associate anything in worship with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit illegal sexual intercourse, that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood , and that they will not disobey you in any Ma'ruf then accept their Bay?ah (pledge of allegiance), and ask Allah to forgive them, Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful". [Noble Quran 60:12]

Any of the believing women who accepted the conditions of the verse and agreed to live by them were considered to have offered themselves for giving their oaths of allegiance. When they declared their commitment to do so, the Prophet would say to them, "You may go. I have confirmed your allegiance."
I swear by Allah, the Prophet's hand never touched the hand of a woman. He would receive their oath of allegiance by spoken declaration. I swear by Allah, the Prophet never took any vow from women except what Allah had ordered him to take and his palm never touched the palm of a woman. When he had taken their pledge, he would tell them he had taken their oath from them orally. ' [Sahih Muslim]

But is this habit not contradicted to sura 4:86"When ye are greeted with a greeting, greet ye with a better than it or return it. Lo! Allah taketh count of all things."

If handshake is a form or part of greeting then this ayat is abbrogating the first ayat mentioned above .And if the custom is to bow down like in Asia ,i bow too and maybe a second time or third to greet in better return?

What kind of foolish thread is this?

You are speculating about nonsensical things and then because of your own lack of knowledge and common sense you dare suggest abrogation....

Turn to Allah if you are a believer

[huruf]

Salam ,

I see this ayats has nothing to with eachother.

So this Antihandshake was specially performed for the Prophet, simply it is narrated  like the veilissue of the Prophet females Is this what you are saying Huruf?

So when did it become a custom not to shake Hands with the opps Gender if there is not an order in the Book?

No I am not saying that at all. Nothing was performed for the Prophet. It is merely stated in hadith that the vow of allegiance to the Prophet was performed by verbal expression without any need that the prophet and the vower touched.

I speculated that the purpose of that hadith was to convey that that way it was dispelled the gossip that the Prophet might take advantage of any familiarity to gain something of the women vowers of allegiance to him. Not anything special for him, but a way of dispelling the possibility of gossip may be.

Of course, it may be also understood that for those women who were well acquainted with him, the greetings would be the customary.

How the prohibition of shaking hands come about I have no idea and also I do not have any curiosity. How each person greets other persons I guess it is a matter of the degree of familiarity, of the degree of comfort of those involved and of the customs of the environment.

Salaam 

[si di]

@Huruf
Thank you for your point of view

@HP Tech
Yes,I do have a lack of knowledge in this theme and i would like you to help me to understand how to behave if you are in a Situation to shake Hands or not this i really bothering

[Zulf]

@HP Tech
Yes,I do have a lack of knowledge in this theme and i would like you to help me to understand how to behave if you are in a Situation to shake Hands or not this i really bothering

I'd say:

* Do what you are comfortable with doing.
* Shake hands with the opposite sex if you find it ok.
* Don't do it if you don't feel ok with it.
* Don't force a custom unto another if it makes them feel uncomfortable.
* Be socially sensible. Evaluate the situation and act accordingly.
* Don't be a dogmatic donkey. Your soul won't be corrupted if you sidestep your normal habits, and avoid shaking hands for once. Also, your soul won't be corrupted if you do shake hands when you normally wouldn't.

It all becomes easier when we view ourselves as on the same/equal level as other people. Our religion doesn't make us better people. If we think our religion makes us better, then we are actually worse.

Peace 

[huruf]

@Huruf
Thank you for your point of view

You are welcome, si di.

Salaam

[Man of Faith]

I'd say:

* Do what you are comfortable with doing.
* Shake hands with the opposite sex if you find it ok.
* Don't do it if you don't feel ok with it.
* Don't force a custom unto another if it makes them feel uncomfortable.
* Be socially sensible. Evaluate the situation and act accordingly.
* Don't be a dogmatic donkey. Your soul won't be corrupted if you sidestep your normal habits, and avoid shaking hands for once. Also, your soul won't be corrupted if you do shake hands when you normally wouldn't.

It all becomes easier when we view ourselves as on the same/equal level as other people. Our religion doesn't make us better people. If we think our religion makes us better, then we are actually worse.

Peace 

That means you think a person due to spiritual reasons should not have to shake hands with whom they do not wish?

It is sad one is regarded as rude if they do not shake hands.

Be well
Amenuel

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

Bismillah

قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَغُضُّوا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَيَحْفَظُوا فُرُوجَهُمْ

Word "furooj" should mean "gaps" and in this case it's any gap in our body. It can be gap between fingers too.
If mu'minoon find that this means that they should guard these gaps (between fingers), because they can be sexual stimulation, then they should avoid handshake.

Allah swt knows best

[Zulf]

That means you think a person due to spiritual reasons should not have to shake hands with whom they do not wish?

It is sad one is regarded as rude if they do not shake hands.

Be well
Amenuel

Yes I know.

I find it stupid when "westerners" come to "muslim countries" and insist on shaking hands with everyone of the opposite sex just to make a statement.
I also find it stupid when "muslims" refuse to shake hands in "western" locations, usually when meeting someone for the first time, just because they are too hung up in fear from their own religion.

So, nobody should be forced into something,
but we should also not be rigid about things... which often means we put ego before community.

Cheers

[Aries]

I so wanna shake your hand right now. 

I hope you did not make manicure because i just read it could be sexual stimulation 

I guess i'll end up in hell with my beautician 

Btw i absolutely agree with Zulf

[HP_TECH]

@HP Tech
Yes,I do have a lack of knowledge in this theme and i would like you to help me to understand how to behave if you are in a Situation to shake Hands or not this i really bothering

Salaam,

First and foremost I apologize if I came off as rude.
I think that this is one of those yellow heifer moments.
Where we get so fixated on the unimportant tiny details and fail to look at the bigger picture.
I think it's okay to wonder about such things but to bring Hadith and the whole contradiction thing was a stretch for me, I am very nit-picky when it comes to believers speaking about Quran... you know it's your Lord's Words... there are no contradictions.

May I ask, what bothers you about this topic?
Where do you live?
Have you never shook hands before?
Are you afraid it might feel stimulating?
Did shaking a guy's hand make you nervous, flutter?

People usually know if you are going to shake hands with them
Sometimes if I don't want to touch a friend I'll just waive at them before they get near me, so that I already greeted them

I would like to hear more clearly about your situation

[si di]

@Aladin
Is this an Ayat what you have quoted?I know about an ayat that says to lower your gaze in front of a Stimulation and that is for some Scholar the reason( i belive i read it somewhere)why handshake is forbidden with the opp sex .They deducted from lowering the gaze to evenmore prohibiting the handshake with opp sex.Or am i wrong?

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

 

@Aladin
Is this an Ayat what you have quoted?I know about an ayat that says to lower your gaze in front of a Stimulation and that is for some Scholar the reason( i belive i read it somewhere)why handshake is forbidden with the opp sex .They deducted from lowering the gaze to evenmore prohibiting the handshake with opp sex.Or am i wrong?

Yes, it's from 24:30. Interesting part means "and protect their FUROOJ" and it's "gaps", as I know. It's any of gaps, since it's plural, not just those who're different for males and females.

Since, it is "tell to mu'minoon" I've found that we should understand what it means for us and it can differ. If we shake hands with 90 yo woman I think there's no harm, but if we shake hands with some attractive young woman maybe it can be. I don't know, this should be personal and we should guard ourselves for sure.

If there's some other view on "furooj", please come with it, otherwise don't laugh, it's dangerous.

Allah swt knows best.

[Cerberus]

If we shake hands with 90 yo woman I think there's no harm, but if we shake hands with some attractive young woman maybe it can be.

You said it yourself. some attractive young woman, if you happen to get aroused by shaking her hand, know that it is because deep down your mind, you consider her as an attractive young woman and you also consider a chance of mingling with her (or whatever the hell you got in mind)...deep down your mind, not because of the hand shake itself.   

[Zulf]

You said it yourself. some attractive young woman, if you happen to get aroused by shaking her hand, know that it is because deep down your mind, you consider her as an attractive young woman and you also consider a chance of mingling with her (or whatever the hell you got in mind)...deep down your mind, not because of the hand shake itself.   

Indeed.

The hand shake won't turn anyone into an adulterer or rapist.
And a hand shake won't make your mind think stuff it didn't already indulge in.
If someone cannot handle a hand shake with an attractive person, then the issue is certainly not the hand shake itself, and it won't be the hand shake's be or not-be that will determine what comes after (physically or mentally).

What would the difference be between these two scenarios, I wonder?
1. You (man) meet (for the first time), greet (without shaking hands) and talk to a woman you find attractive.
2. same, but you shake hands when you first meet.

Will there be a huge difference???

In general, people do or don't shake hands with the opposite sex simply due to how they were raised. Culture programs you. But then we start rationalizing about it, giving reasons and excuses as if we made a choice about what cultural programming we wanted to receive in life. It's better to just chill, and not judge. Be friendly and don't fear so much.

Peace

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

You said it yourself. some attractive young woman, if you happen to get aroused by shaking her hand, know that it is because deep down your mind, you consider her as an attractive young woman and you also consider a chance of mingling with her (or whatever the hell you got in mind)...deep down your mind, not because of the hand shake itself.   

You're right, but we have to think both ways, because ayet is telling US to protect OUR furooj. And, as I already told, it seems as it is upto us to judge. This is not just for handshake, it's for every touch/look for our furooj (male and female).
Somebody can be attracked by somebody's neck, foot, etc. We all know if we have something on our body which can attrack opp. sex or some "kind" of them.

Handshake is not forbidden as an act, so nobody can forbid it. But, as I said, if somebody thinks that it can make any trouble they should avoid it, as all other acts covered by this ayet (from their own view/understanding).

Allah swt knows best.

[hawk99]

You said it yourself. some attractive young woman, if you happen to get aroused by shaking her hand, know that it is because deep down your mind, you consider her as an attractive young woman and you also consider a chance of mingling with her (or whatever the hell you got in mind)...deep down your mind, not because of the hand shake itself.   

I agree, with Cerberus.  I shook a Hindu woman's
hand and now she touches me when I see her and sometimes
goes out of her way to interact, so now I'm in avoidance mode
with her.  Also people tend to make eye contact (24:30/31)
when they shake hands which can give off signals that can
be felt or read in various ways.


                             

[HP_TECH]

I don't think there would be enough space for beauticians or their customers.

50:30

[HP_TECH]

Peace

Do you resent me reminding you of a verse and that your Lord's punishment is nothing to be felt secure from?

PS sorry I don't get your sense of humor

[Aladin from Azra tribe]

Since you've been a good girl I'll tell that "sultan" maybe mean "an ability and/or a tool to differ two similarities".

[HP_TECH]

I apologize, I spoke above my station to an unknown stranger.
You probably mean well.
I never should have overstepped my bounds.

It's okay

[عوني]

Reading your post Andrewsarchus I have to say I'm beginning to like your style more and more especially for posting that animal picture. Kudos to you and sultan 

[عوني]

Woah  It's Freeminds very own news reporter.  Who's next?  Edip "The last Caspian tiger" Yuksel?
:- Someone had to do it.Sultan hens don't get enough publicity.

[si di]

@HP Tech

I live in a multiethnic Environment where the majority is shaking Hands without any exclusion but it happend that i came in contact with a muslimgroup where it is not allowed to shake Hands with the opp. gender .Then it was immidate after that Occasion that i had to greet a families friend and i was still in this not shaking Hands with opp. gender but this time the other insisted of shaking Hands but i didnt and i felt pitty.

[HP_TECH]

@HP Tech

I live in a multiethnic Environment where the majority is shaking Hands without any exclusion but it happend that i came in contact with a muslimgroup where it is not allowed to shake Hands with the opp. gender .Then it was immidate after that Occasion that i had to greet a families friend and i was still in this not shaking Hands with opp. gender but this time the other insisted of shaking Hands but i didnt and i felt pitty.

Ah I see.
So you ended up feeling petty or sorrowful for not extending a handshake to the family friend.
How did the person who insisted on shaking hands feel after you curved him?
Were you able to still speak to the person and have a polite cordial conversation?

You know parents sometimes feel guilty for saying no to their children when they ask them for things. However, in the end teaching the child self-restraint, patience, good behavior is better for both the parent and the child.

Therefore it might be uncomfortable at first but it does not mean the greeting with the person must end there.
Example:

A family friend walks up to you and says Hi nice to meet you I am so and so, while extending his hand towards you
You can simply respond back quickly "Hi nice to meet you" with a big smile and convey, "Sorry, I do not shake hands. How are you this evening? Was it cold outside?"

Change subject there are so many more important or interesting things to focus on besides hand shaking.
Some people are comfortable with touching others and some are not. You are in control of your body so make the choice that best suits you.
However, if the only thing impeding you from shaking hands is your conscience regarding what Quran might have to say about this situation.
Then I would suggest duah (supplication) unto your Lord. He will respond to you