Author Topic: Religion vs Spirituality  (Read 1102 times)

Cerberus

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Religion vs Spirituality
« on: January 25, 2017, 04:17:46 AM »


To what extent do you think this is truthful ?  Note that the image above is just an introduction. No need to discuss it word for word. My point is the following:

Do you think a certain Book of God is sent locally, i.e whatever it contains, it is meant for a certain people of a certain location at a certain time ?

Take the example of the Quran, the slaves directives for example(i.e this isn't the point), whoever reads it says "well this is obviously not for today", and for some other cases. What if all of it was meant for a specific people at a certain time?  Much of its the context is in Arabia, 1400 years ago. However, the wisdom.

What if, the Truth that is in the wisdom of the Quran and many of the previous books or even in the Dhapammada isn't something that needs a "trademark" of God on it, rather, you know it and you recognize it as the truth (spiritually) [its trademark is the wisdom in it, not the book being the book that it is] and the challenge is to follow it, since that is the only challenge at the end of the day. There is never a challenge in accepting something, specially out of ignorance.

I'm saying, what if the truth (that is recognizable) is not supposed to go in a this or that specific Book throughout the time ? You have muslims saying in their majority that the bible is corrupted, and christians saying quran is from the devil (this is not the point, no need to discuss what christians/muslims think).

Quran contains rants against "the jews" and "the christians" and I believe this is a rant against the delusions of those people. If my thought is right, then if there is ever a book to come (hypothetically) it will probably rant against "the muslims" since muslims are just another group of people who claim the superiority of their Book to the one of the christians and jews, eventhough in the very same Quran it confirms the wisdom of the Bible and the Torah (Notice how it rants the people who claim to follow those books at the same time).


Appreciate any thoughts. 

Bender

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Re: Religion vs Spirituality
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2017, 05:25:58 AM »
I don't think religion was created to help humans spiritually.

We can read the quran "locally" but also "universally", I think the way to go is to read it universally if it is indeed a message for humanity
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Jafar

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Re: Religion vs Spirituality
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 07:50:21 PM »
Cerberus,

Religion was invented (by human) to obtain certain political goal...
By religion I mean any ideology which contain a 'dogma'.
By dogma I mean an idea that must not be challenged or questioned and those who do so are perceived as a crime and must be punished.

In truth; all of the books who were claimed or regarded to be written and authored by God was actually written and authored by human..
The authors / writers of the Quran, Bible, Torah were not the first books who claimed to be written by God.
The 'tradition' was started by Ancient Egyptians (ref: Ancient Egyptian Book of the dead).
Thus no wonder "Books authored by God" can only be found within that specific region around the globe...
There are many others spiritual scrolls / books all around the globe but none of them claimed to be written or authored by "God"...

Having said that: it doesn't mean that all of the statements written in the above books are false... some are truthful and some others are falsehood or wishful thinking.. Some are beneficial and some others are just a waste of time..

The true God is all powerful.. every events were, are and will happened in accordance to His plan..
Every knowledge that humankind know and will know in the future are inspired by Him...
He does reveal new knowledge and it's not yet ended.. it's still happening now and well into the future..
And the revelation is not only revealed out to human on this earth.. (or to a specific group of human on this earth) it's to all beings in all universes....




Cerberus

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Re: Religion vs Spirituality
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2017, 12:04:10 PM »
what do you consider as revelation ?

The books that preach and talk about One God, and give us more insight on how to live our life purely are likely to be revelations and I accept them.

In fact, I don't care about the differences between all of these books because most of the time, the differences are in subtle things that have little to no impact on a person. What I care about is the converging point; What I recognize as being the truth. And there is a great deal of it in these books.

Matter of fact, not only books, but also humans, people speaking the truth are worth listening to. (and we have many examples in the Quran). and for some reason, those who aggressively follow a certain book, refuse to listen to other people, even if they speak wisdom that they could benefit from, and that is already a negative thing.

I don't know but is anyone else able to see the Truth and tell himself: this is what I need in my life ? Quiet frankly, I've got to a point where I see clearer and I can see the real challenges that stand in my way to becoming more of my true self. Because for some reason, I now have a vision of my true self. How I can be.

Before, I used to blindly hold onto the book that I inherited yet I kept falling into the very same rabbitholes every time because I thought that the book had a little bit of magic in it, if I read it frequently, I'd get cleaner and purer. But it is not true, at least for me, it has to come from the inside now. No more influence from the outside since I know what I need to do. I believe everything depends on myself  now and the books fullfilled a great deal of their job at delivering their (greater) message. The true challenge is what I see now, I believe.

I also used to pray God to somehow do the job for me. And I kept failling at times of trial because I expected everything from God while I had little intention to do the sacrifice and do the right thing.

Bonus: the holliness of a book, in some sectarian countries goes so deep that they read a chapter  of the Quran (e.g The Cow)  on a bottle of water, drink it, or shower with it and expect the cure from God. And this, this is true devotion, if taking a book as holy is the criteria...like many think.

Gahaiile

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Re: Religion vs Spirituality
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2017, 12:37:01 PM »
On the same page. And I think that if people dedicated 5, to 30 minutes each morning, and evening to reading all these books they'd be on the same page too.

Peace.
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Jafar

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Re: Religion vs Spirituality
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 01:02:22 AM »
Revelation = a knowledge / information / understanding which was not known or understood before...
Revealing (Verb) = the process of disseminating the knowledge / information / understanding which was not known or understood before to a specific party or group of parties.

The converging point is the attitude (not the religion) of islam.. the attitude of "acceptance"..

Yes it's natural for human to idolize something or someone, anything that is being regarded as 'holy' or 'sacred', site/location, statue, jewelry, non metal object, human remain, book, institution, living human being, fictional figures, football club, nationality, races, ethnicity, tradition, language etc..


Timotheus

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Re: Religion vs Spirituality
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 04:11:21 AM »
Peace,

Religion is never used in the quran, God has a system of recompense or deen for every soul to be paid what it earns, and he tells us to follow the creed or millat of ibrahim/abraham, God sends his spirit to whoever he wills to inspire them, and our souls bear witness to his oneness and his guidance, if God had a religion if would be spiritual not doctrinal however the doctrinal side it's there to teach us about the spiritual, both have just been severely distorted.

Peace
What could i say that is better than what God has already informed us of?
Follow God
Seek His guidance, the only guidance
Glory and Praise be to God, rabbil Aalameen

Man of Faith

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Re: Religion vs Spirituality
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 10:58:41 AM »
Revelation = a knowledge / information / understanding which was not known or understood before...
Revealing (Verb) = the process of disseminating the knowledge / information / understanding which was not known or understood before to a specific party or group of parties.

The converging point is the attitude (not the religion) of islam.. the attitude of "acceptance"..

Yes it's natural for human to idolize something or someone, anything that is being regarded as 'holy' or 'sacred', site/location, statue, jewelry, non metal object, human remain, book, institution, living human being, fictional figures, football club, nationality, races, ethnicity, tradition, language etc..



That is the remedy by the first two commandments in the famous 'Ten Commandments'. Be one in God, God is One and there is no other existence, anything else is only an illusion and a contradiction made as a test.

Traditional religionists stand for dualism, Creator and Creation while God is One.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel
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