Why the "Flat Earth Theory" is not so crazy anymore! Top 3 Proofs!

[tlihawa]

How do you mean that your particular faction of flatearthers came to know about this? Did they stick a sky syringe through the dome to see what was on the other side?

Nobody can go up to the sky, even the Jinn. There will be flame of fire waiting for us.

55:33 O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority

55:35 There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves.

Jin was able to do this,..but not anymore.

72:8 And we have sought [to reach] the heaven but found it filled with powerful guards and burning flames.

But God has sent down the scriptures to explain all of this,..the creation of the universe, and something that we can be observed and compared directly, Ourselves!

17:99 Did they not see that God who has created the heavens and the earth is able to create their like? And He has made an appointed time for them in which there is no doubt. But the wicked refuse anything except rejection.

41:53 We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?

51:20 And on the earth are signs for those who comprehend.
51:21 And within yourselves; do you not see?

The creation of the heavens and the earth is akin to the creation of man, just different in scale:

40:57 The creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of the people, but most of the people do not know.


And most of the people dont know.

56:62 And you have already known the first creation, so will you not remember?

We dont need to go up to the sky to since we know the first creation from 23:12-14, as follows,

Now let's take a look at what's God has been said in Torah regarding the creation of the universe,

Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)
(6) And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(7) And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.


Firmament is a solid structure a.k.a "dome". There's a water above the firmament

And Quran said,

11:7 He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His Throne was upon the water;

There is no way the throne of God is on the water below the dome or above the ocean we used to see. But it's above the water outside the dome. It's not necessary a liquid nitrogen, but a pure water as describe in Quran.

25:53 And He is the One who merges the two seas; this is fresh and palatable and this is salty and bitter. And He made between them a partition <barzakh> and an inviolable enclosure.

So now let's compare this two pictures side by side,



It does make sense to me that's this two things is alike. And let's go further into the passage,

27:61 Is He who made the earth a Qararan and placed within it rivers and made for it Rawasiya and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? No, but most of them do not know.

I let the word Qararan and Rawasiya untranslated, so we can see its meaning in dictionary,



So the earth is like the extreme part of the womb, I called it "placenta", which comes from "late 17th century: from Latin, from Greek plakous, plakount- ?flat cake,? based on plax, plak- ?flat plate.?

flat cake.. 

So from my perspective, the earth is flat just like a placenta.

88:20 And to the earth, how was it flattened <sutihat>?




Sutihat, in geometry is a plane, that which is divisible symmetrically and terminated by line.

The heaven and earth also is "dahaha" which means expands. Dahaha is the ostrich's nest which expanded as the bird make it wide. Same thing happen in the mother's womb during pregnancy.

Now let's get back to the scripture's model of the universe. Taken from the one of the Apocrypha books (The hidden Books),

2 Esdras (4 Ezra)

Chap 16
58 He hath shut the sea in the midst of the waters, and with his word hath he hanged the earth upon the waters.

59 He spreadeth out the heavens like a vault; upon the waters hath he founded it.

So the earth is hanged over the water,.. that's why we need "Rawasiya" as an anchor to make it stable.



Rawasiya is not mountain,.. it's an anchor.

21:31 And We made on the earth the anchor <rawasiya> lest it should shift with them,..

Now, let's get further with Qararan, here is the explanation:

14:26 wamatsalu kalimatin khabiitsatin kasyajaratin khabiitsatin ijtutstsat min fawqi al-ardhi maa lahaa min qaraarin

14:26 And the example of a bad word is like a khabiitsatin tree, uprooted from the surface of the earth, not having any Qararin

There is twice the use of the word khabiitsatin in the above verse, but I choose a different meaning for the second word. Since the context is about the tree, I choose the word, colosynth.



So it become,

14:26 And the example of a bad word is like a colosynth, uprooted from the surface of the earth, not having any Qararin

Just keep the Qararin part that way.

And then I do the same with this verse:

14:24 Have you not considered how Allah presents an example, making a good word like a tayyibatin, whose root is firmly fixed and its branches high in the sky?

Once again, let's focus on the root system of the tree,.. tayyibatin also means palm trees.



So I re-translate the verse like this:

14:24 Have you not considered how Allah presents an example, making a good word like a palm trees, whose root is firmly fixed and its branches high in the sky?

So the different between the colosynth and the palm trees is their root model. The colosynth has no root, and the palm trees just like this,



Ok so now, what's all of this got to do with qararin or placenta?

They have the same root system:



Our Qararan or Placenta in the womb has palm-trees root model in their system.

I quote this form medical website:

The placenta is responsible for working as a trading post between the mother?s and the baby?s blood supply. Small blood vessels carrying the fetal blood run through the placenta, which is full of maternal blood. Nutrients and oxygen from the mother?s blood are transferred to the fetal blood, while waste products are transferred from the fetal blood to the maternal blood, without the two blood supplies mixing.

Without two blood supplies mixing..
Sounds familiar in Quran:

27:61 Is He who made the earth a Qararan and placed within it rivers and made for it Rawasiya and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? No, but most of them do not know.

Without two seas mixing..
Therefore, we as a baby inside the firmament womb, cannot see the water above the firmament or dome.

Allah knows best.

Peace

[tlihawa]

Salaam,
from my previous post above, we can see the importance to understand the term "tree of life".

I found this verse in Quran, which talks about the tree as a "test" for mankind.

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لَكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ أَحَاطَ بِالنَّاسِ ۚ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الرُّؤْيَا الَّتِي أَرَيْنَاكَ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَالشَّجَرَةَ الْمَلْعُونَةَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ ۚ وَنُخَوِّفُهُمْ فَمَا يَزِيدُهُمْ إِلَّا طُغْيَانًا كَبِيرًا - 17:60

wa-idh qul'nā laka inna rabbaka aḥāṭa bil-nāsi wamā jaʿalnā l-ru'yā allatī araynāka except fit'natan lilnnāsi wal-shajarata l-malʿūnata fī l-qur'āni wanukhawwifuhum famā yazīduhum illā ṭugh'yānan kabīran.

Palm-trees and its root system is one of the key to understand the existence of God. Now let's take a look at deeper to the bold phrase above, "wal-shajarata l-malʿūnata fī l-qur'āni"

17. 60 And when We said to you: "Your Lord has encompassed the people." And We did not make the vision that We showed you except as a test for the people, wal-shajarata l-malʿūnata fī l-qur'āni. And We are making them fearful, but it only increases their transgression.

wal-shajarata l-malʿūnata commonly translated as "tree that was cursed in the quran". But it really depends on the reader point of view.

I have tried to find the tree that was cursed in Quran and I think there's only two possible candidates, the Adam's tree (in heaven) or Zaqqum tree (in hell). But the problem is it's not possible for us to observe those trees as they become a "test" from God, since they are located in heaven and in hell.

I really put my attention on the verses which written using the words "to be a test" or "test" for human beings. For example what I found in 74:31 about 19 cycle.

The 19 cycle or Metonic Cycle is also mentioned as a test for mankind, something that can be observed while we still alive.

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604078.msg302149#msg302149

Now back to the "wal-shajarata l-malʿūnata", I have to re-translate the verse to get better understanding.

Lam-Ayn-Nun = To drive away, execrate, deprive one of mercy and blessings, condemn, curse. The base or lower part of a palm-tree.

I believe it's not a coincidence that lam ayn nun also means the base or lower part of the palm-tree.



So the verse become like this to me,

17:60 And when We said to you: "Your Lord has encompassed the people." And We did not make the vision that We showed you except as a test for the people, and the base/lower part of a raceme of palm tree in the Qur'an. And We are making them fearful, but it only increases their transgression.

Yup, Allah gave us a kind of sign to show His existence. And moreover, besides its literal meaning, it gave me better understanding about the parable behind.

Lets start over with this verse,

14:24 Have you not considered how Allah presents an example, making a good word like a palm trees, whose root is firmly fixed and its branches high in the sky?

Now we focus on the words "and its branches high in the sky". To understand this parable, lets start with the one of the apocrypha book, Book of Enoch.

Beside telling the destruction prophecies, Book of Enoch also tells of the events on earth before the flood of Noah occured, .. Where there were a group of guardian angels who sinned (often called fallen angels).. They came down to earth and do marriage with daughter of men.

Some of their children were the giants (Nephilim - in Quran, Al Fil) who had lived on earth. The giants or the fallen angels descendant then do the damage and shed blood on the earth.

Not just only married with daughter of men, The Fallen Angels also exposed the "heavenly secrets" to humans on earth. They taught science and advance technologies, such as astronomy, metal work, jewelry, beauty, health, magic spells, cutting roots, war tools, etc.

God was very angry with them and sent his four faithful angels to punish them. In short, these fallen angels regret and want to return to heaven. They asked Enoch to convey their messages to God.

Here is the story:

Book of Enoch
Chapter 15

1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice.

2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: "You should intercede"⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you:

3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons?

4. And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish.

5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth.

6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world.

7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

There are two things I underlined from the book of enoch, that the heavenly beings:

1. has eternal life
2. No need for wives/spouse (in order to get offspring)

So now let's compare this facts with the story of Adam and his companion (Eve) in Quran:

7:20  But the devil whispered to them (Adam and Eve), to reveal to them what was not apparent to them of their bodies; and he said: "Your Lord did not prohibit you from this tree except that you would become angels, or you would be immortal."

Adam and Eve were heavenly beings. Based on the facts in Book of Enoch, they have no reason to get married and have offspring.

7:21   And he swore to them: "I am giving good advice."

7:22   So he misled them with deception; and when they tasted the tree, their bodies became apparent to them, and they rushed to cover themselves with the leaves of the paradise; and their Lord called to them: "Did I not prohibit you from that tree, and tell you that the devil is your clear enemy?"

When they tasted the tree, all their reproduction system became apparent to them.

So it seems clear to me that the tree which Adam and Eve approached was a kind of "genealogy tree". Tasted the tree means that they 'agree' to have offspring, and also they 'agree' to transform into flesh and blood. But since they are not heavenly being anymore, they have to live on earth.

That's my personal opinion.

So now back to the verse,
14:24 Have you not considered how Allah presents an example, making a good word like a palm trees, whose root is firmly fixed and its branches high in the sky?

Adam and Eve were on the top of this 'genealogy tree' which the branches high in the sky as they were the only humans who ever lived in the "sky", down to us.


Salam

[tlihawa]

Salaam,
I would like to continue sharing about the flat earth based on what I've found in scriptures.

You can check related post about the palm tree model or tree of life in here,

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610134.msg414805#msg414805

First I'd like to share more about the rawasiya. I found something interesting in this following verse,

41:10 And He placed in it anchor <rawasiya> from fawqiha, and He blessed it and established its provisions in proportion in four days, to satisfy those who ask.

Fawqiha =Fa-Waw-Qaf here also means the part of arrow, which is the place of the bow string [ie. notch]



and there's another meaning of the Fa-Waw-Qaf related to it,



So it talks about the rima of the vulva.

From my previous posts above, I do understand that the human body especially female reproductive system is similar with our universe. Small scale of the universe.

40:57 The creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of the people, but most of the people do not know.

Still within the context, now I understand that the rawasiya or anchor that hold the earth is located on the notch or vulva's rima of the womb of the universe. So now by looking at the female body structure, we can compare and located where's actually the rawasiya of the earth attached to. 

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/rima%20vulvae

So now what happens when the judgment day comes?

Lets take a look at this verses, and I put the possible meaning of the words so you can see for yourself,

79:1 wal-nāziʿāti gharqan

Naziati = Nun-Zay-Ayn = to draw forth, take away, pluck out, bring out, snatch away, remove, strip off, tear off, extract, withdraw, draw out sharply, perform ones duty, yearn, depose high officials, resemble, draw with vigour, invite others to truth, rise, ascend, draw from the abode or bottom, carry off forcibly, deprive.

Gharqan = Gh-Ra-Qaf = sank, drowned, went downwards and disappeared, became without need, drew the bow to the full, outstripped, engrossed, a man overwhelmed by trials, single draught, ornamented, obligatory, suddenly/violently, to come near to any one.

79:2 wal-nāshiṭāti nashṭan

Nun-Shiin-Tay =


79:3 wal-sābiḥāti sabḥan

Siin-Ba-Ha = to swim, roll onwards, perform a daily course, float, the act of swimming, occupy oneself in: the accomplishment of his needful affairs or seeking the means of subsistence, business/occupation, those who are floating, went/travel far, being quick/swift. To praise/glorify/hallow/magnify, sing/celebrate praise, holy, declaring God to be far removed or free for every imperfection/impurity

79:4 fal-sābiqāti sabqan



79:5 fal-mudabirāti amran

So as to carry out a command.

79:6 yawma tarjuful rājifatu

On the Day the ground shakes.

79:7 tatbaʿuhā l-rādifatu

It will be followed by the second

So I got a picture that the rawasiya or the anchor that hold the earth will be pulled up like a bow in full until it loosed, untied, and the earth float upon the waters (see my previous posts about the earth upon the waters) and shakes then followed by the second events.

We are ready to reborn...

Start with bleeding,



55:37 When the sky is torn, and turns like a rose colored paint.

And in the process of birth, the heavens or walls of this womb also become weak, loose, saggy (wahiyatun)

69:16 And the sky will be torn, and on that Day it will be flimsy <wahiyatun>.


And there will be a "cervix dilation" an opening for the baby,

78:19 And the heaven is opened, so it becomes gates.



So we are ready to reborn to second life.. the eternal life.

and let's see what the other scriptures said about the judgment day,

Book of Revelation
Revelation 12

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

and from the apocrypha,

2 Esdras Chapter 4

40 So he answered me, and said, Go thy way to a woman with child, and ask of her when she hath fulfilled her nine months, if her womb may keep the birth any longer within her.

41 Then said I, No, Lord, that can she not. And he said unto me, In the grave the chambers of souls are like the womb of a woman:

42 For like as a woman that travaileth maketh haste to escape the necessity of the travail: even so do these places haste to deliver those things that are committed unto them.

From Book of Enoch

CHAPTER LXII.

1. And thus the Lord commanded the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, and said: 'Open your eyes and lift up your horns if ye are able to recognize the Elect One.'

2. And the Lord of Spirits seated him on the throne of His glory,
And the spirit of righteousness was poured out upon him,
And the word of his mouth slays all the sinners,
And all the unrighteous are destroyed from before his face.

3. And there shall stand up in that day all the kings and the mighty,
And the exalted and those who hold the earth,
And they shall see and recognize How he sits on the throne of his glory,
And righteousness is judged before him,
And no lying word is spoken before him.

4. Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail,
[And she has pain in bringing forth]
When her child enters the mouth of the womb,
And she has pain in bringing forth.

Woman in travail consistently used in God's scripture to illustrate the judgment day.

May Allah protect us.

Peace

[kaltun]

SLM to all,

why is in Quran only East and West mentioned ??
like vers Quran 7:
(The) Lord (of) the east and the west; (there is) no god except Him, so take Him (as) Disposer of Affairs.
رَّبُّ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ فَاتَّخِذْهُ وَكِيلًا   

i searched the Quran , i cant find NORTH and SOUTH , its always east and west ?

[imrankhawaja]

SLM to all,

why is in Quran only East and West mentioned ??
like vers Quran 7:
(The) Lord (of) the east and the west; (there is) no god except Him, so take Him (as) Disposer of Affairs.
رَّبُّ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ فَاتَّخِذْهُ وَكِيلًا   

i searched the Quran , i cant find NORTH and SOUTH , its always east and west ?

although u can find in more intresting way covering not only NORTH and SOUTH
BUT also the solar system mechanism.

He is the LORD of both EAST and both WEST.

in there instead of mashriq and magrib author select the words ?mahreekeen? and ?magreebeen?

thats how some scholars interpreted it

55:17 [He is] the Sustainer of the two farthest points of sunrise, and the Sustainer of the two farthest points of sunset.

55:17 Lord of the two Easts and the two Wests.

its not only covering north south but also the complex phenomenon of season changing as we know in seventh century the concept of cosmos was different than todays percpective

[kaltun]

SLM Imrankhawaja,

thx for the reply..

its not only covering north south but also the complex phenomenon of season changing as we know in seventh century the concept of cosmos was different than todays percpective

season changing ??
in this verse?

(The) Lord (of) the east and the west; (there is) no god except Him, so take Him (as) Disposer of Affairs.

or in this ?

[He is] Lord of the two sunrises and Lord of the two sunsets.

but the same word " mahreekeen" is also used at 43:38
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=$rq#(55:17:2)

حَتَّىٰ إِذَا جَاءَنَا قَالَ يَا لَيْتَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكَ بُعْدَ الْمَشْرِقَيْنِ
and here its the east , the same word.....

[good logic]

Peace All.
There is no need to debate flat or spherical earth. The virgin galactic spaceship is now ready to take tourists to space. photos of our earth will be easily got from there.
Or is this 25 year old project that included 300 engineers and hundreds of other scientists and skilled people working to achieve it is a hoax?
So wait no longer ,go and see for yourself. Or ask those traveling on it to take photos for you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[kaltun]

Peace All.
There is no need to debate flat or spherical earth. The virgin galactic spaceship is now ready to take tourists to space. photos of our earth will be easily got from there.
Or is this 25 year old project that included 300 engineers and hundreds of other scientists and skilled people working to achieve it is a hoax?
So wait no longer ,go and see for yourself. Or ask those traveling on it to take photos for you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

SLM

i hope so its real... that we can close this issue once and forever.... 

but for me doesn't change the fact, Allah is the creator of all ...

btw when are they going to fly ?

[good logic]

Peace kaltun.
It has already been tested:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/12/13/virgin_galactic_gets_to_space_for_first_time/

I believe many have booked already and it looks like they will leave soon(2019 at latest).
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[imrankhawaja]

its a good business for FLAT earthers.
they can purchase the tickets in advance and can sale it in BLACK.

lot of FEs will b going to see the shape of earth.

anyway coming back to your post. @ ?masherkeen?
just see the word used there is a singular noun or dual noun ?
not defending quran or round earth just telling u how to see things by check and balance method.

example in my own post look carefully the bold part.

its not only covering north south but also the complex phenomenon of season changing as we know in seventh century the concept of cosmos was different than todays percpective

NOT only & BUT also when used together in a sentence make lot of room
for other things related with these two.

Not only he kidnapped him but also killed him.

two things clear but there is a clear picture of full story in imagination mode like torture , stabing, putting hot iron on skin, tied up with ropes, lot of other things.thats why these words are invented and applied bu grammerians to save you from hurdle, respect grammer and grammerians lmao atleast try to understand it.

and moreover see the question what u asked ?