Author Topic: Quran and Pedophilia  (Read 7030 times)

Wakas

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2018, 06:24:37 AM »
Whilst analysis of 65:4 is helpful, in my view it doesn't come close to the brilliant Quranic argument found here (note the part in bold):
http://misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm

I later found out Parwez used the same argument.


All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

The Sardar

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The Sardar

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2018, 07:33:48 AM »
There is people who defend pedophilia like Flea guy and honestly it makes mad.

The Sardar

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2018, 08:36:12 AM »
Sister Reel, did you encounter defenders of pedophilia? I think you mentioned a organization that openly advocates pedophilia.

The Sardar

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #94 on: June 18, 2018, 08:00:04 AM »
Many western critics keep tying pedophilia in Saudi Arabia to Islam even though Qur'an does NOT advocate it, in U.S.A there is a group called N.A.M.B.L.A and they openly advocate pedophilia in the Western world who wants to lower age of conscent in U.S. It really disgusts me! In fact the word peadophilia which means in Greek child love (παῖς, παιδός, paξs, paidσs-child, φιλία,philia-love) which is no love involved AT ALL!

See these:

http://samvak.tripod.com/pedophilia.html

http://www.protectpakids.org/full-stop-children-cannot-consent-to-sex-with-an-adult-ever/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/27/child-sexual-abuse-consensual-victim-behaviour

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/08/adults-with-minors-not-okay/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/#!po=1.30435

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHZDEUVt9OI


The Sardar

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #96 on: July 29, 2018, 06:07:45 AM »
Here is update #3:

http://samvak.tripod.com/pedophilia.html

http://www.protectpakids.org/full-stop-children-cannot-consent-to-sex-with-an-adult-ever/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/27/child-sexual-abuse-consensual-victim-behaviour

https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/08/adults-with-minors-not-okay/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/#!po=1.30435

http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/health/effects/pedophilia.html#4

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/somatic-psychology/201303/trauma-childhood-sexual-abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHZDEUVt9OI

https://books.google.se/books?id=A3Gk0M-Y-rMC&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=when+is+the+brain+mature+enough+for+sex&source=bl&ots=qDa6taqtuC&sig=CQmcyIwU166IWv8BbijbvVQvqK8&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=when%20is%20the%20brain%20mature%20enough%20for%20sex&f=false

http://keepkidssafe.org/6-ways-molestation-affects-adult-survivors/

https://www.counseling.org/docs/disaster-and-trauma_sexual-abuse/long-term-effects-of-childhood-sexual-abuse.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Also see this:

24:31 وقل للمؤمنات يغضضن من ابصارهن ويحفظن فروجهن ولا يبدين زينتهن الا ما ظهر منها وليضربن بخمرهن علىا جيوبهن ولا يبدين زينتهن الا لبعولتهن او ءابائهن او ءاباء بعولتهن او ابنائهن او ابناء بعولتهن او اخوانهن او بنى اخوانهن او بنى اخواتهن او نسائهن او ما ملكت ايمانهن او التابعين غير اولى الاربة من الرجال او الطفل الذين لم يظهروا علىا عورات النساء ولا يضربن بارجلهن ليعلم ما يخفين من زينتهن وتوبوا الى الله جميعا ايه المؤمنون لعلكم تفلحون
Waqul lilmu/minati yaghdudnamin absarihinna wayahfathnafuroojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa mathahara minha walyadribnabikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna wala yubdeenazeenatahunna illa libuAAoolatihinna aw aba-ihinnaaw aba-i buAAoolatihinna aw abna-ihinna awabna-i buAAoolatihinna aw ikhwanihinna aw baneeikhwanihinna aw banee akhawatihinna aw nisa-ihinnaaw ma malakat aymanuhunna awi alttabiAAeenaghayri olee al-irbati mina alrrijali awi alttifliallatheena lam yathharoo AAala AAawratialnnisa-i wala yadribnabi-arjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinnawatooboo ila Allahi jameeAAan ayyuhaalmu/minoona laAAallakum tuflihoona
And tell the believing females to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those maintained by their oaths, or the male servants who are without need, orthe child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.

24:32 وانكحوا الايامىا منكم والصالحين من عبادكم وامائكم ان يكونوا فقراء يغنهم الله من فضله والله واسع عليم
Waankihoo al-ayamaminkum waalssaliheena min AAibadikumwa-ima-ikum in yakoonoo fuqaraa yughnihimu Allahumin fadlihi waAllahu wasiAAun AAaleemun
And marry off those among you that are single, and the good from among your male and female servants. If they are poor, then God will grant them from His grace. And God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

24:33 وليستعفف الذين لا يجدون نكاحا حتىا يغنيهم الله من فضله والذين يبتغون الكتاب مما ملكت ايمانكم فكاتبوهم ان علمتم فيهم خيرا وءاتوهم من مال الله الذى ءاتىاكم ولا تكرهوا فتياتكم على البغاء ان اردن تحصنا لتبتغوا عرض الحيواة الدنيا ومن يكرههن فان الله من بعد اكراههن غفور رحيم
WalyastaAAfifi allatheena layajidoona nikahan hatta yughniyahumu Allahumin fadlihi waallatheena yabtaghoona alkitabamimma malakat aymanukum fakatiboohum inAAalimtum feehim khayran waatoohum min mali Allahiallathee atakum wala tukrihoo fatayatikumAAala albigha-i in aradna tahassunanlitabtaghoo AAarada alhayati alddunyawaman yukrihhunna fa-inna Allaha min baAAdi ikrahihinnaghafoorun raheemun
And let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste until God enriches them of His Bounty. And if those who are maintained by your oaths seek to consummate the marriage, then document it with them if you find that they are ready, and give them from the wealth of God which He has bestowed upon you. And do not force your young women to need if they have desired to be independent, in order that you may make a gain in the goods of this worldly life. And if anyone has compelled them, then for their compulsion, God is Forgiving, Merciful.

The Sardar

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #97 on: July 29, 2018, 06:18:59 AM »
Whilst analysis of 65:4 is helpful, in my view it doesn't come close to the brilliant Quranic argument found here (note the part in bold):
http://misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm

I later found out Parwez used the same argument.

Salam/Peace brother Wakas. I have shown your article with other ones involving faulty translation of 65:4 and there is a person in Quraniyoon reddit said this:
Quote
furqaan1
The answer to objection against 65:4 is very simple. The verse uses the word nisaikum which means your women, not children. The word used for child in the quran is tifl (22:5, 24:31, 24:59, 40:67). In fact 24:59 says "when your children reach puberty", so prepubescent = child/tifl per the Quranic usage. Additionally, 24:31 mentions both tifl and nisa as separate categories so nisa cannot include tifl. Therefore, 65:4 cannot possibly be referring to prepubescent. I am surprised that none of the above mentioned links gives this answer.


The Sardar

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #98 on: July 29, 2018, 07:46:01 AM »
Peace -- situation with 12 year old girls in modern countries is different topic nothing to do with offering underage girls into marriage and there are many communities of poor people in villages (I came from one in my youth) and if someone came asking for a girl in my family that was of marriageable age would kindly thank them and leave it up to the girl.

On the other-hand, if someone came asking for an underage girl in my family would happily break his ribs and bust his head along with his entourage/family for suggesting it.

Perhaps study the words being used:

4:11 ىوصىكم instructs you الله the god فى in اولادكم offspring yours للذكر lildhakari/to the male (any age) مثل similitude حظ apportion الانثىىن al-unthayayni/the two (any age) فان so if كن are (f/p) نساء nisāan/womenfolk (i.e. daughters any age) فوق over اثنتىن ith'natayni/two فلهن so for them ثلثا  third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) ما what ترك left

2:282 … فان so if لم not ىكونا being dual رجلىن rajulayni/menfolk two (adult) فرجل so man وامراتان wa-im'ra-atāni/and women two (adult)
3:35 اذ when قالت said (f) امرات im'ra-atu/woman (adult) عمران imran
3:40 … and surely بلغنى has reached me الكبر the oldness وامراتى wa-im'ra-atī/and woman mine (adult) عاقر barren …
7:83 … امراته im'ra-atahu/woman his …
11:71 وامراته wa-im'ra-atuhu/and woman his …
11:81 … امراتك im'ra-ataka/woman your …
12:21 وقال and said الذى the one اشتراه of purchased him من from مصر miṣ'ra لامراته li-im'ra-atihi/to woman his

12:30 وقال and said نسوه nis'watun (women adult (f/p) the community) فى in المدىنه the town امرات im'ra-atu/woman العزىز the mighty تراود sought to seduce she فتاها young man hers عن about نفسه soul his/himself قد hence شغفها infatuated her حبا love انا surely we لنراها surely we see her فى in ضلال misguidance مبىن clear

12:50 … النسوه l-nis'wati/the women (f/p) …
12:51 … قالت said (f) امرات im'ra-atu/woman …
15:60 … امراته im'ra-atahu/woman his
19:5 … وكانت and be she امراتى im'ra-atī/woman mine عاقرا barren of
19:8 … وكانت and be she امراتى im'ra-atī/woman mine عاقرا barren of
27:57 … امراته amrat-hu/woman his
28:9 وقالت and said she امرات im'ra-atu/woman فرعون firaun …
28:23 … امراتىن im'ra-atayni/women two
29:32 … امراته im'ra-atahu/woman his
29:33 … امراتك im'ra-ataka/woman your
51:29 … امراته im'ra-atuhu/woman his
66:10 … امرات im'ra-ata/woman نوح noah وامرات wa-im'ra-ata/and woman لوط lot
66:11 … امرات im'ra-ata/woman فرعون firaun
111:4 وامراته wa-im'ra-atuhu/and woman his 


Again, study the words being used:

4:3 … فانكحوا so sponsor marriage ye of
4:25 …فانكحوهن so sponsor marry ye them باذن by permission اهلهن family theirs
24:32 وانكحوا and sponsor marriage ye of…
28:27 قال said انى surely I ارىد want ان that انكحك sponsor marriage you …

2:235 … النكاح the marriage …
2:237 … النكاح the marriage …



No it clearly states:

4:6 وابتلوا and test ye of الىتامى the bereaved حتى until اذا when بلغوا attained they of النكاح the marriage فان so if انستم perceive you منهم from them رشدا right way of/rational فادفعوا so deliver ye of الىهم to them اموالهم wealth theirs...

Hence according to you, it’s OK to give in marriage 6 or 9 year old little girls or even a 2 year old baby without any consent who have not even started menstruating yet or attained maturity/rational to a pedophile who offers money.  :nope:

Magnificent words brother Noon. I would do the same to that child rapist: bust their face open & break their ribs if they want to oppress or rape my children.

Wakas

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Re: Quran and Pedophilia
« Reply #99 on: July 30, 2018, 02:51:47 AM »
peace,

Yes, this has been mentioned before on this forum. Also here:

http://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/polygamy-islam-4-wives.htm

Quote
Further, the Arabic word used here is "nisa" and means "women" not girls.

I will likely add the point into the article however. Thanks.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org