Can someone explain me verse 4:11

[NK]

Hi all,

I am new in this forum and not very knowledgeable, so please help me to understand 4:11.

My questions are:

1. Is this verse gives a standard guideline to distribute the wealth according to the situation?

2. Does male share always double than female?. Even, male contribution to the family would be nothing and female controls all the financial aspects of the family.


For better understanding of my question, please consider following three scenarios:

1. The deceased left one son and one daughter. They both are single, but daughter is the primary breadwinner. In this situation, does male gets the double share of inheritance than female?

2. Again, the deceased left one son and one daughter. They both are married and wealthy. Still,  the son will get the double share of inheritance than female?

3. If the son and the daughter both are married but the daughter is financially weak. She needs money more than her share. Does male still get the double share of inheritance than female?

Waiting for reply from learned members of this group.

Thanks. 

[huruf]

That is allalso and in fact it did not start till the beginning of the Abasi khalifate.

It is a twisting of the grammar to get the desired meaning of doulbe for the males than the emales, but what the text says is not that.

If I say: you get the same as both of us. I am saying that I get a part, the other person or erson included in the us, get a part and that the person I am addrssing gets a art which is the same as mine or as the art of any of the others included in the us, it does not mean that he gets what I get, plus what any other included in the us gets.

Another: you make a deposit in my account for the ame amount as the other two people have done. It means you make a deposit for the same amount each of the othe rdid, not the sum of both deposits.

It is very simple but it has been twisted to play for males.

It is clear in the Qur'an that every person, not any group of persons, get a share, so there is no share that is shared by the two females, but a share for each. It is the same as in aya

6.143


Sahih International: [They are] eight mates - of the sheep, two and of the goats, two. Say, "Is it the two males He has forbidden or the two females or that which the wombs of the two females contain? Inform me with knowledge, if you should be truthful."


This the  "the wombs of the two females" is exactly the same construction as in 4.11 "part of the two females", and it is clear that it is not speaking about the females sharing in one or in any number of wombs for both of them, but that each female has her own womb, just one for each.

The traiditional meaning artificially given to this aya is a disgrce and a shame. The the Revealer of the Qur'an was quite caable of saying to the male double than to the female, or for the female half as for the male, but it does not say that. It says to the male like the part of the two females. It is a mock of the divine language and a mock of legality and legal sense and practice to make the text mean half for the female.

Nowhere in the Qur'an is contemplated a common share for any number of heirs. Each has his or her share clearly stated and undivided.

And if you look at all the ayas regarding inheritance, you will see that FIRST the share of the females are fixed and then what is left after fixing those shares is for the males. And in 4.11 the portions for the children are distributed depending on th number of females present. Trnaslations usually add somethig like if there is [only] daughters, or something of the sort, but in the text there is no "only". That "only" is an addition straneous to the text, and it is clear that it is speaking always about the children of both sexes.

On the other hand, if we are analytical it is clear that in order to give something to the male in that sentence, the amount for the emales has already been fixed, otherwise you could not speak about the part of the two females, so how would you do to ake room for a part after that that would be double the two parts of the two females. It becomes nonsense.

Also to be born in mind is that those are limits that cannot be ignored, that is anybody can be benefited with more than the limits, but cannot get less, and also, everybody sould make a will, so that he or she can personally provide for any person who may be and a disadvantage that makes him or her deserve a greater share.

In fact the Qur'anic laws in inheritance as regards family memebers are similar to other legal systems except for those that have punished women with no inheritance or less inheritance. Also there is a duty to give to the disppossessed of society and the needy.

Salaam

[Noon waalqalami]

Hi all,

I am new in this forum and not very knowledgeable, so please help me to understand 4:11.

My questions are:

1. Is this verse gives a standard guideline to distribute the wealth according to the situation?

Hi NK -- Yes.

2. Does male share always double than female?. Even, male contribution to the family would be nothing and female controls all the financial aspects of the family.

No. It depends, female can get double that of male e.g. 1 daughter 1/2,  2 sons 1/2 (1/4 each)

For better understanding of my question, please consider following three scenarios:

1. The deceased left one son and one daughter. They both are single, but daughter is the primary breadwinner. In this situation, does male gets the double share of inheritance than female?

2. Again, the deceased left one son and one daughter. They both are married and wealthy. Still,  the son will get the double share of inheritance than female?

3. If the son and the daughter both are married but the daughter is financially weak. She needs money more than her share. Does male still get the double share of inheritance than female?

No. 1/2 daughter, 1/2 son regardless otherwise make a will to accommodate circumstances.

2:180 كتب written علىكم upon you اذا when حضر comes احدكم any of you الموت the death ان if ترك left خىرا good of الوصىه the instruction/will للوالدىن to the parents dual والاقربىن and the nearer/relatives being بالمعروف in the fair manner حقا duty of على on المتقىن the righteous

Inheritance verses summary...

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg395789#msg395789

[NK]

Thanks for the reply. I must say you both are the learned member of this group. The interpretation is relatively new for me but sounds very logical. I have heard it the first time. Has anyone else in the history had similar interpretation before?

I am reading both answers and the link which Noon Waalqalami gave in his reply.

One thing I can't understand that Why did God not say in an easy way to that male and female share is equal?.

The other thing which hard to comprehend is, when there is only one son then the whole estate belong to him but when only one daughter then her share is half?(it is traditional interpretation).  It makes no sense.

[huruf]

Because the fixing of the parts for each heir is done on the basis of the female heirs. The parts of the females are the first to be allotd and around them the rest.

So in 4.11 when it says you are instructed as to the children, it rfers to the children of both sexes, so when it says if there is one female have it is not saying that there are no males. If there is only one female and no males and ther are others heirs the parts for the other heirs are taken and then all that is left is for the sole direct descendant, but of course never less than half.
The parts, are always the minimum to be respected.

As why not say to males a females the same amount, because the allotting is done depending on the number of females. As you see if there are more than two daughters they get two thirds regardless of how many males there are.

There has been a tendency in history to override the rights of women in inheritance as well as in othe rthings. May be the Qur'an uts more safeguards to avoid that.

Salaam

[huruf]

I thought I had said so, but I tried and it got lost in my keyboard or the ether, which both of them dislike me very much 

I tried to say that in the History of islaic societies, this apportioning of two females one male getting the same each was the standar`practice up to the beginning of the Abbsi dynastie, that is allthrough the Umayyad. So yes it was done. One more proof of the usual decadence of every religious society from the purity of the beginnings till the reaction takes force and neutralises the revolutionnary provisions of the revealed religion. Nothing new under the sun, but at least we have the Qur'an and can always go back and dig.

Salam 

[Mazhar]

Inheritance according to injunctions in Grand Qur'aan



Grand Qur'aan, disapproving patrilineal inheritance, declared daughter not Son as the central theme of Inheritance.

It is made incumbent upon death expecting wealthy person to bequeath for the Mother and Father; and nearer relatives.

Inheritance is the practice of passing on the property: moveable and immovable assets, debts and obligations upon the death of an individual. We will study the rules, regulations and law of inheritance prescribed in the Grand Qur'aan.

1. Governing Rules and Regulations about Inheritance. The division of Inheritance is based upon:

Rules and Regulations on Inheritance

[NK]

Peace all,

I have learnt quite a lot on inheritance on this thread. I have worked on different combination of deceased close relatives which I will post later on.

I have one question regarding someone has two wives. What does Quran say regarding this matter?. Even in  21st century, it is a common practice among Arabs to marry more than one wife. Therefore, I was wondering what is the ruling of Quran in such situation.

Salam

[huruf]

That lack is, I think a very clear hint that the normal, ordinary marriage is the monogmous one. Nothing is said of several wives just as nothing is said of several husbands.

As to being common amongst Arabs to have more than one wife, I do not think tht is so. It is very uncommon. Very much publicised but not common. Not more common than amongst other people to have a lover or several lovers besides the wives only in the case of legal wives, as you say there is a question of inheritance, but again any man in that predicament should make a will.

Salaam

[Noon waalqalami]

Peace all,

I have learnt quite a lot on inheritance on this thread. I have worked on different combination of deceased close relatives which I will post later on.

I have one question regarding someone has two wives. What does Quran say regarding this matter?. Even in  21st century, it is a common practice among Arabs to marry more than one wife. Therefore, I was wondering what is the ruling of Quran in such situation.

Salam

Peace NK, it's all there any combination ...

4:12 ... ولهن and for them الربع the fourth مما from what تركتم left you ان if لم not ىكن that be لكم for you ولد offspring

1/4 wife/wives + 3/4 parent/s (1/3 mother (4:11) + 5/12 father)

فان so if كان be لكم for you ولد offspring فلهن so to them الثمن the eight مما from what تركتم left you

1/8 wife/wives + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 4:11) + 13/24 child/ren

من from بعد after وصىه instruction/will توصون thou making بها in it او or دىن judgment

[truthseeker11]

Peace NK,

I have one question regarding someone has two wives. What does Quran say regarding this matter?.

Please take a look at brother Hafeez Kazi's articles:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606725.0
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606743.0

Peace

[Mazhar]

Ayah 4:11-14