Author Topic: question from all ?  (Read 6309 times)

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4208
  • Gender: Male
question from all ?
« on: August 02, 2016, 01:54:05 PM »
peace everybody.

i have a question stuck in my mind from last couple of days if somebody have better unnderstanding they can share here with logic and reasoning.

as we know this life is test for all of us. but what will happen to the kids who get died in their young age or at their birth including the kids of non muslims..? where is the test for them. and how will they rewarded?

traditional understanding regarding the kids of non muslims,who died early is as follow..
they will serve all beleivers in the paradise but due to some points its quite illogical

1 i can feel a smell of slavery here .. 2 and they can object from God we will not gonna serve becoz we need same status as rest of the people have..

but what i want to ask they did not took a test at first place , it seems they are lucky not to sit in exam and still  get promote to next level/life , is it fair with rest of us ... as we know spending life as a beleiver is not really an easy task. so are they lucky or there is some other theory behind all the kids who died in young age..?

God bless you all




SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

good logic

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4783
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 02:44:03 PM »
Peace imran.

GOD tries each individual according to His knowledge.
 Those souls that GOD has given a very short interim to ( for a very good reason, I trust GOD) are mentioned here( people of Aaraaf):
Here is what Qoran says about the two categories and about the people of "Aaraf":
7:40
Surely, those who reject our revelations and are too arrogant to uphold them, the gates of the sky will never open for them, nor will they enter Paradise until the camel passes through the needle's eye. We thus requite the guilty.
إِنَّ الَّذينَ كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا وَاستَكبَروا عَنها لا تُفَتَّحُ لَهُم أَبوٰبُ السَّماءِ وَلا يَدخُلونَ الجَنَّةَ حَتّىٰ يَلِجَ الجَمَلُ فى سَمِّ الخِياطِ وَكَذٰلِكَ نَجزِى المُجرِمينَ
7:41
They have incurred Hell as an abode; they will have barriers above them. We thus requite the transgressors.
لَهُم مِن جَهَنَّمَ مِهادٌ وَمِن فَوقِهِم غَواشٍ وَكَذٰلِكَ نَجزِى الظّٰلِمينَ
7:42
As for those who believe and lead a righteous life - we never burden any soul beyond its means - these will be the dwellers of Paradise. They abide in it forever.
وَالَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَعَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ لا نُكَلِّفُ نَفسًا إِلّا وُسعَها أُولٰئِكَ أَصحٰبُ الجَنَّةِ هُم فيها خٰلِدونَ
7:43
We will remove all jealousy from their hearts. Rivers will flow beneath them, and they will say, "God be praised for guiding us. We could not possibly be guided, if it were not that God has guided us. The messengers of our Lord did bring the truth." They will be called: "This is your Paradise. You have inherited it, in return for your works."
وَنَزَعنا ما فى صُدورِهِم مِن غِلٍّ تَجرى مِن تَحتِهِمُ الأَنهٰرُ وَقالُوا الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذى هَدىٰنا لِهٰذا وَما كُنّا لِنَهتَدِىَ لَولا أَن هَدىٰنَا اللَّهُ لَقَد جاءَت رُسُلُ رَبِّنا بِالحَقِّ وَنودوا أَن تِلكُمُ الجَنَّةُ أورِثتُموها بِما كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ
7:44
The dwellers of Paradise will call the dwellers of Hell: "We have found our Lord's promise to be the truth, have you found your Lord's promise to be the truth?" They will say, "Yes." An announcer between them will announce: "God's condemnation has befallen the transgressors;
وَنادىٰ أَصحٰبُ الجَنَّةِ أَصحٰبَ النّارِ أَن قَد وَجَدنا ما وَعَدَنا رَبُّنا حَقًّا فَهَل وَجَدتُم ما وَعَدَ رَبُّكُم حَقًّا قالوا نَعَم فَأَذَّنَ مُؤَذِّنٌ بَينَهُم أَن لَعنَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَى الظّٰلِمينَ
7:45
"who repel from the path of God, and strive to make it crooked, and, with regard to the Hereafter, they are disbelievers."
الَّذينَ يَصُدّونَ عَن سَبيلِ اللَّهِ وَيَبغونَها عِوَجًا وَهُم بِالـٔاخِرَةِ كٰفِرونَ
7:46
A barrier separates them, while the Aaraf is occupied by people who recognize each side by their looks. They will call the dwellers of Paradise: "Peace be upon you." They did not enter (Paradise) through wishful thinking.
وَبَينَهُما حِجابٌ وَعَلَى الأَعرٰفِ رِجالٌ يَعرِفونَ كُلًّا بِسيمىٰهُم وَنادَوا أَصحٰبَ الجَنَّةِ أَن سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُم لَم يَدخُلوها وَهُم يَطمَعونَ
7:47
When they turn their eyes towards the dwellers of Hell, they will say, "Our Lord, do not put us with these wicked people."
وَإِذا صُرِفَت أَبصٰرُهُم تِلقاءَ أَصحٰبِ النّارِ قالوا رَبَّنا لا تَجعَلنا مَعَ القَومِ الظّٰلِمينَ
7:48
The dwellers of the Aaraf will call on people they recognize by their looks, saying, "Your great numbers did not avail you in any way, nor did your arrogance.
وَنادىٰ أَصحٰبُ الأَعرٰفِ رِجالًا يَعرِفونَهُم بِسيمىٰهُم قالوا ما أَغنىٰ عَنكُم جَمعُكُم وَما كُنتُم تَستَكبِرونَ
7:49
"Are those the people you swore that God will never touch them with mercy?" (The people in the Aaraf will then be told,) "Enter Paradise; you have nothing to fear, nor will you grieve."
أَهٰؤُلاءِ الَّذينَ أَقسَمتُم لا يَنالُهُمُ اللَّهُ بِرَحمَةٍ ادخُلُوا الجَنَّةَ لا خَوفٌ عَلَيكُم وَلا أَنتُم تَحزَنونَ

Trust in GOD completely, His justice will prevail.
Do not grieve for the people of the Aaraf?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man of Faith

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 7976
  • Gender: Male
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 02:54:36 PM »
Imran,

Reincarnation is a true concept and youngsters that die come again. So their test is not over and they do not go straight to "heaven" for nothing accomplished spiritually. They will return in the flesh for further testing, just as other failures who do not pass the test in their life cycle and get released from attachment to the bodily and become managers (angels). It is a recurring fate unless one can actually see through the imposed delusion and find themselves a working remedy to their present situation (God was so kind to list the most prominent stumbling blocks by the "Ten Commandments") in order to be saved. It is recommended to learn what Satan really is.

If one learns that their own body is their main enemy/problem it will be much easier to find a way out. What autonomously drives the body is the instinct (Satan) and the more separation from it one can get with their spirit the better.

Philosophical overview of the 'Ten Directives' (commandments):

Hierarchical tendency = Instinctive - Remedy strengthen the personal being
Materialistic desire = Instinctive - Remedy detachment from materials
Conjecture and superstition = Instinct - Remedy remember these words (Rabb's words)
(Pre)Occupation (of mind) = Instinctive - Remedy periodical contemplation (Sabbath)
Selfishness = Instinctive - Remedy treat everyone like it was yourself and get empathy
Sexual drive = Instinctive - Remedy avoid sexual stimulation (e.g. no peeking at bodies of attraction)
Emotionality = Instinctive - Remedy empathy and self-confidence/faith in self
Greed = Instinctive - Remedy avoid exploitation of others and a chase for competition
Exaggeration/lying tendency = Instinct - Remedy firm on honesty
Jealousy = Instinct - Remedy learn to appreciate what you have and question your own needs and do not fall towards competition

Obviously it is important to be aware that each one is an instinct and the instinct (Satan) is your main problem. If each person reflected more on the directives' application and meaning than reinforcing their strictness to invent a lot of "do nots" never authored by God then they would yield better results with themselves and hopefully avoid reincarnation.

It would also help if people would realize they have been beguiled by religious doctrines.

Be well
Amenuel
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4208
  • Gender: Male
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 03:13:31 PM »
peace GL.

my brother, i also know these verses, and i also trust on God justice..

but my question is in bold, how will somebody judged without task?  there are two factors either the souls are lucky or there is another theory behind this.. ?

God bless you too
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4208
  • Gender: Male
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 03:16:06 PM »
peace MOF,

so according to ur understanding the kids who died get birth again untill they will complete the test of this life..

its also found in hinndu scriptures something simlar that they have to come for seven janam/births in this life then the travel to another dimenshn start.. or i get  you wrong there..?

SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

hawk99

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 05:10:18 PM »
peace everybody.

i have a question stuck in my mind from last couple of days if somebody have better unnderstanding they can share here with logic and reasoning.

as we know this life is test for all of us. but what will happen to the kids who get died in their young age or at their birth including the kids of non muslims..? where is the test for them. and how will they rewarded?

traditional understanding regarding the kids of non muslims,who died early is as follow..
they will serve all beleivers in the paradise but due to some points its quite illogical

1 i can feel a smell of slavery here .. 2 and they can object from God we will not gonna serve becoz we need same status as rest of the people have..

but what i want to ask they did not took a test at first place , it seems they are lucky not to sit in exam and still  get promote to next level/life , is it fair with rest of us ... as we know spending life as a beleiver is not really an easy task. so are they lucky or there is some other theory behind all the kids who died in young age..?

God bless you all


Peace imrankhawaja not only children are exempt from judgment but also the mentally ill,
(depending when the illness takes place) and young folks who have not reached the age of responsibility. 


Allah knows best


                                      8)
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

Timotheus

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 852
  • Gender: Male
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 05:39:54 PM »
peace everybody.

i have a question stuck in my mind from last couple of days if somebody have better unnderstanding they can share here with logic and reasoning.

as we know this life is test for all of us. but what will happen to the kids who get died in their young age or at their birth including the kids of non muslims..? where is the test for them. and how will they rewarded?

traditional understanding regarding the kids of non muslims,who died early is as follow..
they will serve all beleivers in the paradise but due to some points its quite illogical

1 i can feel a smell of slavery here .. 2 and they can object from God we will not gonna serve becoz we need same status as rest of the people have..

but what i want to ask they did not took a test at first place , it seems they are lucky not to sit in exam and still  get promote to next level/life , is it fair with rest of us ... as we know spending life as a beleiver is not really an easy task. so are they lucky or there is some other theory behind all the kids who died in young age..?

God bless you all

Peace be with you,

I dont realy know, i often wonder this myself, i think God knows best those who deserve paradise, often in the gospel accounts, jesus mentions that 'none will enter the kingdom of heaven except as a little child', or in my understanding, by being pure, and not seeking desires etc.

in terms of is it fair? well i see the service i do as making up for all my sin, so if i think of my account, i think, i dont know if i would even break even. but i hope God gives me a good reward, the point i was making is that, children have alot less sin, they dont need to be purified from it as much, as oppossed to us adults. I realize God wipes our sin, if He so willed, i dont mean we have to struggle and strive all our lives trying to break even with our account, but rather just to purify ourselves from the results of that sin in our own souls, although, theese two are surely very closely related.

God knows best anyway, Prehaps its one of those situations where if we knew it would greive us, i just rememberd, alhamdullilah, that God tells us not to ask about things that might greive us, as people before us asked those kinds of questions, and rejected because of the answers

prehaps it is one of those cases, I dont know. God knows. Praise be to Him, we will find out one day.

Peace be with you, and Gods mercy and blessings.
What could i say that is better than what God has already informed us of?
Follow God
Seek His guidance, the only guidance
Glory and Praise be to God, rabbil Aalameen

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4208
  • Gender: Male
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 05:52:49 PM »
Peace imrankhawaja not only children are exempt from judgment but also the mentally ill,
(depending when the illness takes place) and young folks who have not reached the age of responsibility. 


Allah knows best


                                      8)

peace hawk

i agree with your statement but you did not answer what i ask, if u want include all of them as well along with kids ..i have no issue but again where is the test  then?

peace.
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

imrankhawaja

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4208
  • Gender: Male
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2016, 05:57:02 PM »
Peace be with you,

I dont realy know, i often wonder this myself, i think God knows best those who deserve paradise, often in the gospel accounts, jesus mentions that 'none will enter the kingdom of heaven except as a little child', or in my understanding, by being pure, and not seeking desires etc.

in terms of is it fair? well i see the service i do as making up for all my sin, so if i think of my account, i think, i dont know if i would even break even. but i hope God gives me a good reward, the point i was making is that, children have alot less sin, they dont need to be purified from it as much, as oppossed to us adults. I realize God wipes our sin, if He so willed, i dont mean we have to struggle and strive all our lives trying to break even with our account, but rather just to purify ourselves from the results of that sin in our own souls, although, theese two are surely very closely related.

God knows best anyway, Prehaps its one of those situations where if we knew it would greive us, i just rememberd, alhamdullilah, that God tells us not to ask about things that might greive us, as people before us asked those kinds of questions, and rejected because of the answers

prehaps it is one of those cases, I dont know. God knows. Praise be to Him, we will find out one day.

Peace be with you, and Gods mercy and blessings.
peace timothes,

actually regarding this particular issue i did not find anything in scripture so we can solve it by reasoning and logics, but again what i see difficult for myself also is it unfair with us who stuck in this loop of life test.. compared to those who died in their early age and they will not have to answer anything, its same like if somebody get absent from examination hall and get promoted to next level withour giving exam..

and the one who give exam he learn struggle whole year for that exam and he/she still not sure he get pass or fail..

thats what i actually wanted to ask from my brothers and sisters here..

peace
God bless you
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

hawk99

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2254
Re: question from all ?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2016, 06:47:10 PM »
peace hawk

i agree with your statement but you did not answer what i ask, if u want include all of them as well along with kids ..i have no issue but again where is the test  then?

peace.

When you ask "where is the test" do you mean is the test fair?  Why don't kids
go to hell?  You must reflect on the test and the law of cause and effect.  Let's take
for example, someone experiences the death of a child, in such a case who is being tested,
the child, no, it is the one who experiences the event.  The test has many aspects and some
intertwine.  Everyone is not tested, there are things we are tested by.  Allah knows best.

2/155  And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of
wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,

25/20 And We have not sent before you any messengers but they most surely ate food
and went about in the markets; and We have made some of you a trial for others;
will you bear patiently? And your Lord is ever Seeing.

                       

                                   :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden