Author Topic: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation  (Read 2251 times)

imrankhawaja

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2016, 01:53:29 PM »
peace timothes,

66:1 O you prophet, why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
66:2 God has already given the law, regarding the cancellation of oaths. God is your Lord, and He is the Knowledgeable, the Wise...


reading and understanding are two different things... most of the times people dnt read quran and its messages with care  so result happen in misunderstandings,,,

this chapter is not started with sin,,, its a traditional lock or customs of areas...

avoide eating camel meat is hopefully not sin,, avoiding getting married with cousins in some culture is hopefullt not a sin,,, avoiding the marrige with your custudion son wife is hopefully not a sin...

nither all of these things are haram/unlawful/prohibbted accoriding to God book of law... so it was advice for prophet from God not to be formal , as people will copy you and make things haram,, forexample whats happeinig today,,, have a look people exacty dress like 7th century arab having white long cloth with green turban rolled over the head beared loong and so on... thats whats Allah told us there... that prophets are role models for us so be careful regarding traditions and law... that something can be anything... examples i already stated some of them.

peace God bless you..

 please my brother share all these type of ayats inshallah i will explain you all of them whatever humble understanding i have regarding these things..

 
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

imrankhawaja

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2016, 02:00:26 PM »
Read the first verse of chapter 66



what did moses do? killed a man. is that not a sin, a mistake? 28:16

moses said 'my LORD, indeed i have wronged my soul, so forgive me'



he was not prophet at that time.. it was before prophethood...

second thing is this it was accident ,,

third thing it was self defence...

fourth thing... he said he wronged himslef becoz he lost his patience , if he never hit him in self defence then he would not require to leave the town and face hardships... wronging himself mean he did a mistake...

if i did a mistake in exam accidently, i will get fail and i have to repeat the whole full year... but God law will not punish me for this mistake... he know whatever is in heavens and earth...

killing some innocent with the power of arms is a big sin,,, wht is happeing in iraq, syria, afghanistan.. from ages...

killling by suicide bombs to million of people is a sin..... who is responsible?

a person driving a car accidently killed 100 people , is it sin or mistake?

then refer the event of moses in light of this.. by defualt he was not even prophet at that time this thread is about the sins of prophets..hope u got it

i dnt like rasicm my brother.. but instead of understanding scripture we always point out useless things that y i specially create this thread to clear confusions what actually happened according to quran with prophets...

peace
God bless you

SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

imrankhawaja

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2016, 02:04:58 PM »

Peace, and God bless,

says you?? on what authority? what proof?

it is an individual address, hence the singular (your (singular) sin)..

if you have a clear proof in the quran, for prophets or messengers being without sin, produce it.

sin is always singular.. sins are plural... lol its not a language debate...

the topic of thread u need to read it , this is not debate session we are sharing our understanding what happened infact...

so i dnt need to provide proof if you guys have some things to share share claiming prophets did sins then proceed , clear sins of prohpet like rob rape, stealing, murders(not accidents or wars)blashphemy, killing innocent kids etc etc then share the verses...

peace
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

Timotheus

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2016, 04:01:18 PM »
imrankhawaja


brother, you have much to say, but little quran for it, for all our benefit can you produce some quran? otherwise all i see is your conjecture..


God informed; ask forgiveness for your sin. as i mentioned in my previous post. 47:19

God informed this to muhammad first, and that he was foremost of the muslims (as He commands Muhammad to say in my understanding) 6:163

God informed; 'so when We recite it, follow its recital' 75:18


a sin is a sin. what is a sin anyway?


dh - n -b, from which comes the interpretation 'sin' means:
consequence more or less.. as it is related to the concept of 'tail' 'tail-end'


very same root in 26:16 when moses says (as interpreted as) 'they have a "crime" (dhanbun) against me'



what is the consequence for the trusters who God chooses to forgive?
he hides/covers them..

i.e 'He hides the consequences' (He forgives the sin)
He also, for those who trust 'He covers over from them their misdeeds' 47:2



what is the consequence of Muhammad making unlawful to himself something that God had not, seeking to please his wives? 62:1

He says: 'GOD has already decreed for you (plural) the expiation for your oaths' 62:2

now i dont know, theese two verses could be entirely unrelated, however it is in between more verses relating to the prophets matters.


no this is not a language debate, but THE QURAN IS REVEALED IN ARABIC
dhanb does not mean 'sin', it means dhanb, and it comes from the root meaning, in my understanding and interpretation, a consequence.


no the prophets obviously did not go about corruting the land.. there is a vast difference between sin, corruption, etc. of all theese concepts, none of them are actualy in the quran, there is dhanb, fasad, etc.. if you dont know what they actualy mean, then how can you possibly make some point on them?


are you trying to make the prophets into angels? or perfect beings?
they were only human beings. human being is prone to dhanb


how do we sin? being a concequence, it is when we make an error of judgement, or are 'foolish' commonly interpreted as 'ignorance', but i dont think this accurately represents the word, in which case, if we turn back, God says He will cover us. 4:17 '


so Alhamdullilah, i have found for myself at least a difinitive answer,

In the future, please include more of references, and less of pointless time wasting conjecture.

Peace be with you

What could i say that is better than what God has already informed us of?
Follow God
Seek His guidance, the only guidance
Glory and Praise be to God, rabbil Aalameen

imrankhawaja

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2016, 09:37:43 PM »
peace timotheous,

47:19 So know that there is no god besides God, and ask forgiveness of your sins and also for the believing males and the believing females. And God knows your movements and your place of rest.

i did not see any prophet here.. in this verse... moreover do you really want me to tech you how to understand quran...

if a verse is saying me not to associate partner with God does it really mean i ever associate anybody with God as far i remeber i did not associate anything with God nor i have any plan in future... poitning out this verse and claiming the thing is no doubt a great mistake lol see i did not say great sin haha

its just an advice.. same like not to do blashphemy, not to lie... not rape not murder...

if a verse is telling me keep away from fire and be careful from fire its necessarily does not mean i burn myslef in past thats y this verse is here... now putting this understanding there and after it i have no issue if you refer these verses to prophets..

i remember there are some verses are strictly for messengers and some are for random public becoz messengers alrready know its wrong doing.. example is prophet muhammad married with multiple womens or prophet wifes are not allowed to do work from God does not make every beleiver to get multiple married and stop their wives from work... look i again try to explain it , you are getting very wrong understanding from that verse of chapter 66

i again will suggest you to read my opening pst why this thread is here...

prophet = human= mistakes =nobody perfect i agree...

prophet = human= sinners= nobody is sinless... big cliam... i disagree...

the burden of proof is on the head of the one who are claiming prophets are sinners ,, as far whoever bring any claim from quran its either misinterpretation or did not qualify the subject of my thread...

read more quran and collect all these type of verses one by one post all may b you find some more convincing verses .. then we will proceed more... right now i already given my reasonings with all ur verses ..

peace and
God bless you
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

imrankhawaja

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2016, 09:41:59 PM »
i have a hint for you i also try it,, sometimes the appparent verse appear different but as soon you read behind and coming verses the subject comes to you like crystal clear its a beautiful self referencing book , there are some more hints how to understand and study quran.. inshAllah it will help...
SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

Abdul-Hadi

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2018, 04:44:08 PM »
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

I know that I'm resurrecting an old thread--but that may serve to keep all the information in one place instead of scattered in different threads.

It seems pretty clear that Prophets (peace upon them all) made mistakes--which they recognized and asked forgiveness for.

7:19   "And O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it as you both wish, and do not come near this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."
7:23   They said: "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves and if You do not forgive us and have mercy on us, then we will be of the losers!"


11:45 And Noah called on his Lord, and he said: "My Lord, my son is from my family, and your promise is the truth, and you are the Wisest of all Judges."
11:46 He said: "O Noah, he is not from your family, he was of an unrighteous deed, so do not ask what you have no knowledge of. I advise you not to be of the ignorant."
11:47 He said: "My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking You what I do not have knowledge of. And if You do not forgive me and have mercy on me, I will be of the losers!"


20:121   So they both ate from it, and their bodies became apparent to them, and they began to place leaves on themselves from the paradise. Adam had disobeyed his Lord, and had gone astray.
20:122 Then his Lord recalled him, and He forgave him, and gave guidance to him.


26:69 And recite to them the news of Abraham.
26:82 "And the One whom I hope will forgive my mistakes on the Day of Judgment."


28:15 And he entered the city unexpectedly, without being noticed by the people. He found in it two men who were fighting, one was from his clan, and the other was from that of his enemy. So the one who was from his clan called on him for help against his enemy, whereby Moses punched him, killing him. He said: "This is from the work of the devil; he is an enemy that clearly misleads."
28:16 He said: "My Lord, I have wronged my soul, so forgive me." He then forgave him, for He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.


38:24 He said: "He has wronged you by asking to combine your lamb with his lambs. And many who mix their properties take advantage of one another, except those who believe and do good works, and these are very few." And David guessed that We had tested him, so he sought forgiveness from his Lord, and fell down kneeling, and repented.

60:4 There has been a good example set for you by Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are innocent from you and what you serve besides God. We have rejected you, and it appears that there shall be animosity and hatred between us and you until you believe in God alone." Except for the saying of Abraham to his father: "I will ask forgiveness for you, but I do not possess any power to protect you from God." "Our Lord, we have put our trust in You, and we turn to You, and to You is the final destiny."

66:1   O prophet, why do you make unlawful what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Merciful.
66:2   God has already given the law, regarding the cancellation of oaths. And God is your Lord, and He is the Knowledgeable, the Wise.
66:3   And when the prophet confided a narrative to some of his wives, then one of them spread it, and God revealed it to him, he recognized part of it and denied part. So when he informed her, she said: "Who informed you of this?" He said: "I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert."
66:4   If the two of you repent to God, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then God is his ally, and so are Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the angels are his helpers.


80:1   He frowned and turned away.
80:2   When the blind one came to him.
80:3   And what makes you know, perhaps he is seeking to purify?
80:4   Or to remember, so the remembrance will benefit him?
80:5   As for the one who was rich.
80:6   You were addressing yourself to him.
80:7   And why does it concern you that he does not want to purify?
80:8   And as for the one who came to you seeking.
80:9   While he was concerned.
80:10 You were too occupied for him.


May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

imrankhawaja

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2018, 07:01:33 PM »
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

80:1   He frowned and turned away.
80:2   When the blind one came to him.
80:3   And what makes you know, perhaps he is seeking to purify?
80:4   Or to remember, so the remembrance will benefit him?
80:5   As for the one who was rich.
80:6   You were addressing yourself to him.
80:7   And why does it concern you that he does not want to purify?
80:8   And as for the one who came to you seeking.
80:9   While he was concerned.
80:10 You were too occupied for him.


May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

Peace Abdul-Hadi,
hope you are doing well.

actually there are some intresting theories about this verse

some says its due to traditions this story is been attach to the last prophet
some says its may be another person in the same gathering most probably = Waleed bin Mugheera also a tradition
some says quran is the book that talks about you so it can also be a metaphor applied to every body

interesting to know your opinion on it

on the other hand this verse shows another picture

11:27 But the chiefs of his people, who were the foremost in rejection of the message said, “We see in you nothing but a man like ourselves. And we see that none has followed you except, quite obviously, the lowest among us. And we do not find in you all any merit over us. Nay, we think all of you are liars.

God knows best

in traditions u will find lot of stories from person to person so i dnt think this verse need to applied to the receiver of message based on theories from traditions..

God bless you my brother




SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.

Abdul-Hadi

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2018, 07:33:28 PM »
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

@imrankhawaja: Thank you, I'm doing alright. May the Almighty see fit to bless you and your loved ones.

I have an opinion on the matter, but it is conjecture and not worth writing. Nobody now alive was a witness. To me, it doesn't matter much, except in "How can I apply this to my life?" That part is obvious. If the details are not given to us, it is probably because they are not of import.

Surah 80 may or may not be referring to a Messenger or Prophet (peace upon them all).

11:27 seems to reinforce Surah 80, because 80:7 states that the rich man does not want to purify. 11:27 further reinforces 80:8-9, because the blind man is seeking and concerned, and the blind man is likely to be counted among the lowest.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

Abdul-Hadi

imrankhawaja

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Re: prophets did mistakes/sins or its a wrong interpretation
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2018, 08:19:37 PM »
peace abdul hadi,
blessing of God upon you..

intrestingly in 11 :27 author used word أَرَاذِلُنَا from root ر ذ ل this root only occurs in four different places in quran so if we cross check that word we have to focus on other three..

the other three are in 16:70, 22:5, 26:111

26 :111  talks about same thing

16:70 and 22:5 talks about the age when human organs get weak like eye sight, memory etc , so cross checking of this root and words indicate that the message receiver shows love to these people who are blind, disable, weak ,poor,etc ..

16:70 God has created you, and in time will cause you to die. There are some among you whose lives are prolonged to an abject old age, when they cease to know what they once knew so well.

22:5 We settle in the wombs what We wish to an appointed time, then We bring you out a child, then you reach your maturity, and of you are those who will pass away, and of you are those who are sent to an old age where he will not be able to learn any new knowledge after what he already has.

26:111 They said, "Shall we acknowledge you when the lowest type of people have followed you?"


@ NOAH ( due to lack of knowledge he was not aware about the matter) = human nature not = sin
@ david (due to lack of knowledge about the matter between brothers) = human nature not= sin
@adam ( he was not considered as messenger)
@ moses( 1 he was not on the status of messenger at the time of incident 2 it was not a murder but accidental death as per event described in book ) = heavy mistake
@abraham ( quran never state any wrong doing commited by abraham as per my knowledge) the verse  u posted is the message what abraham found about universal God that he is the only one who can forgive the shortcomings of human being... read from 26:70

@ end two passages there is no mention of any names there

God bless you

SO which of the MIRACLES/MARVELS of your Lord you will deny
55:55.