### Author Topic: Gravity = Density ?  (Read 2148 times)

#### Zulf

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##### Gravity = Density ?
« on: July 18, 2016, 05:19:46 AM »
The case of objects falling even in vacuum where density is not at play

I just wanted to inject a point into the Flat Earth debate.

I decided to create the topic in the Trash section, as it is not directly discussing verses of the Quran, although it does go well with what the Quran instructs us to do, i.e. ponder and think about the world we live in. Also, discussing about Flat Earth have a tendency to quickly derail in to emotional mud-slinging that is so typical for inter-religious apologetic debates, and it is good if that can be avoided.

Anyhow, here it goes, and it is very simple:

Some people claim that there is no gravity, and it instead is density that accounts for objects falling to the ground.
There are several ways to show the density idea faulty, but one simple way it so ponder what happens in vacuum. Just imagine having a container such as a glass cylinder from which the air has been pumped out, creating vacuum. Inside this cylinder we can keep objects.

* The fact is that objects fall downward even in vacuum.
* Vacuum is when there is no atmosphere/gas/air.
* Actually, objects of different mass/weight fall downward at equal speeds since there is no air/gas that create friction and reduce the speed more for lighter and "fluffier" objects.
* The point is that, there is no air that will displace/force the object to move downward (as the density theory would state)

* The fact that objects at all fall downward in vacuum shows that the density theory is not just flawed, but faulty.

Anyone who has attended high school science classes (or even at lower levels) would have seen this experiment demonstrated. If not, just google videos on items falling in vacuum. One example is this video. There would be thousands more on internet to watch.

Peace
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#### imrankhawaja

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2016, 01:26:56 PM »
gravity is a word scientist used for the force that attract object in their centre... they know that force exist but what is the mechanism behind this force,, they represent different theories.. started by newton then revised by einstien and modern scientist are looking gravity with different appraoch , but still gravity exist...and the pressure is calculted according to the size of object ,, like gravity of moon  and jupiter is not same what we expereince here...

#### Zulf

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2016, 01:43:08 PM »
Yes. Gravity works and is there, not matter what you call it, and no matter what extrapolations we eject from there.
Things move downward. Something must decide the direction of downward. So there is 'something'. People call it 'gravity'.
And, density simply cannot do the work of gravity. They are totally different things.
Peace
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#### imrankhawaja

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 02:22:56 PM »
exactly... i was watching a documentry presented by morgon freeman regarding gravity , its was nice

#### progressive1993

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 06:00:48 PM »
Gravity: A fake idol that is strong enough to make rocks fall and hold oceans together, yet too weak to pull down balloons and pollen!

37:85 When he said to his father and his people: "What are you worshiping?"

37:86 "Is it fabrication - several gods instead of the God - that you want?"

37:87 "What do you say of the Lord of all mankind?"

37:91 He then went to their idols and said, "Can you not eat?"
37:92 "What is the matter, you do not speak?"
37:93 So he then turned to them, striking with his right hand.
37:94 Then they approached him outraged.
37:95 He said, "Do can you worship what you carve..."
37:96 "...While God has created you, and all that you make?!"

Their response: "denier of the status quo!" "suppress the inconvenient truth!"

37:97 They said, "Build for him a structure, and then throw him into the fire."
37:98 They schemed against him, but we made them the losers.

10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

#### Zulf

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2017, 05:40:01 AM »
Gravity: A fake idol that is strong enough to make rocks fall and hold oceans together, yet too weak to pull down balloons and pollen!

Ironically, only flat earth believers regard Gravity as an idol, as an entity, like stone idol worshipers of olden times. To the rest of the world 'gravity' is just a name for an observed phenomenon. Nothing more.

But on the same note, if gravity is considered an idol by FE people, then density should be treated exactly the same way. So in the idol gallery of FE Faith we have now at least three idols: Gravity, Density and Eric Dubay.. the last being like a prophet for them, despite that it has been shown that he misleads people (unknowingly/ignorantly probably) by not even knowing the nature/origin of the material he is spreading.
If you name me, you negate me.

#### imrankhawaja

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2017, 08:19:09 PM »
intrestingly if u ask them what make an apple drop on ground

force =?
motion=?
magic=?
miracle=?
yeh gravity is a name given to that kind of force not to b confused
same like the names what we have give to the observations we discoverd like atoms, molecules, vapours, proton, law of universal gravitation, law of inertia etc
perhaps they will ask you to prove the law of inertia then you may ask them when u jump from a running bus what make u run along the direction pf bus for saving ourselves from falling on the ground ?

#### huruf

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2017, 04:17:13 AM »
Ironically, only flat earth believers regard Gravity as an idol, as an entity, like stone idol worshipers of olden times. To the rest of the world 'gravity' is just a name for an observed phenomenon. Nothing more.

But on the same note, if gravity is considered an idol by FE people, then density should be treated exactly the same way. So in the idol gallery of FE Faith we have now at least three idols: Gravity, Density and Eric Dubay.. the last being like a prophet for them, despite that it has been shown that he misleads people (unknowingly/ignorantly probably) by not even knowing the nature/origin of the material he is spreading.

I think that many of us people, or all of us, in fact, have "weak spots" where we do not speak or act for founded reasons, but act out other things which we do not confess to ourselves, or if so, silence them quickly because we need that fiction. Some people have more "weak spots" than others or have "weak spots" more strongly rooted than others.

In fact that brings us back to the theme "know yourself" or rather and more pointedly "know myself". Really, really go thoroughly on why we think, or rather cling to this thought or that thout, to this or that idea, etc. It may not be because we find it reasonable, but because it acts for us like crutches. It is not that it is true or that we need it to be true, but rather that we simply need it. We do not even know why we need that idea in particular rather than other equally wrong idea. That would take investigation, but in fact we are too vulnerble to be able to overcome that and really search ourselves.

Most human problems with dialogue and mutual understandin and areement are grounded in the inconfessed or unrealised and it is as useless to convince with reason as to try to convince a stone.

For some people it will be through life experience that they will mature some and get rid of some crutches. In fact fighting crutched pwople with reason is just as effective as trying to fight them with nonsense, any going into a "fight" with them only entrenches them more, because it cetifies the usefullness of their crutches to keep on fighting.

Again, self exam, is the way for anybody to attain any knowledge of any kind.

Salaam

#### Sultan Brandon

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##### Re: Gravity = Density ?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 01:25:14 AM »
Light still enters a vacuum which proves that its not empty so the mechanism that orients objects vertically and relative to their density is still functioning and its false to assume otherwise without evidence.  So objects like a feather and a bowling ball will still move downwards because the other substances or particles like light and even the ether in the chamber are less dense than those objects.  And they fall at the same speed because density doesn't affect the rate of acceleration, only their positioning, without significant resistance through a fluid or air.

And a hot air balloon proves that gravity doesn't exist by the current definition because gravity is the supposed attraction of mass yet a hot air balloon weighs 800 pounds at minimum yet it still rises in the air which gravity can't cause.  When the air inside is heated it expands and causes the overall structure its attached to including the balloon and bucket to be less dense than the substance it displaces which is the surrounding cooler air, particles and gasses.

The same phenomena is found in a cruise ship which weighs 220,000 tons.  That's 110,000 cars.  Picture that for a second and try to fathom how heavy that is, yet "gravity" is so weak, actually non-existent, that it can't even pull it through a thin substance like water.  Why?  Because the air contained in the ship, just like an upside down hot air balloon, causes the entire structure to less dense than the total volume of water it displaces.  So the weight pushes it downward and displaces the water but the air inside prevents it from going further due to the shape and since objects are only oriented vertically.

Furthermore, there isn't a single experiment to demonstrate that mass attracts.  Even the cavendish experiment is a laughable and desperate attempt to prove that gravity exists while the suspended objects sit there idle without air currents, human interference, or tension in the string.  Set two bowling balls next to each other on a flat surface and watch them do nothing.  Mass alone does not attract; attraction is due to electromagnetic phenomena and objects can move up or down relative to their density from an unnamed mechanism.  Gravity is fiction that cannot make objects rise, cannot pull an object downwards with 220,000 tons of weight to help it, and was invented by atheists to try and support the irrational and unscientific delusion that a flat surface ocean is somehow curving around the bottom of a ball and sticking on the outside.