Author Topic: Book on Riba  (Read 3427 times)

Scribbler

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Book on Riba
« on: June 21, 2016, 09:36:42 AM »
Salaam everyone.


This book on the topic of 'riba' is worth reading:

http://www.nzibo.com/riba/The%20Riba.pdf
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

A.W

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2016, 12:30:48 PM »
Thanks for sharing, I havent read through yet but quickly reading the abstract I have a pretty good idea what it'll be about. I'll say this though.

The problem isnt Islamic banking or finance in itself, the problem is the entire source of funds. The way "money" is created and injected into the economy is itself interest/usurious infested and is entirely unlawful as per Quran.

There are only two solutions:

A) The ideal solution and the most difficult - start a new community with a new economic system.

B) Be as equitable in your dealings as far as possible.

God forgive us.

Scribbler

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2016, 02:16:06 PM »
Thanks for sharing, I havent read through yet but quickly reading the abstract I have a pretty good idea what it'll be about. I'll say this though.

The problem isnt Islamic banking or finance in itself, the problem is the entire source of funds. The way "money" is created and injected into the economy is itself interest/usurious infested and is entirely unlawful as per Quran.

There are only two solutions:

A) The ideal solution and the most difficult - start a new community with a new economic system.

B) Be as equitable in your dealings as far as possible.

God forgive us.

Salaam.

I agree with what you said above.The problem is on the foundation / roots of this system. To be very honest, I am very scared about my future. If I stay alive by the will of God, I am going to inherit a lot of money from my father sometime in the future, God willing. It's not that I won't need the money. I, in fact, will need it to survive. However, where am I going to put all those money if not in the bank? Will I be sinful? Only God knows. And it bothers me a lot being uncertain about whether I will be a sinful or not. I just don't know what to do, and this life is definitely an extremely difficult test.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

Wakas

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2016, 04:18:54 PM »
A few things a person can do:
Educate others about the money/banking system.
Eliminate one's debts (if any) as quick as possible, and for others if possible.
Consider putting your money into a building society (if they have them) rather than a bank. Yes, I know, its only moderately better but still better.
If you do earn interest from a bank account,, give it to charity.
Put a small amount of your savings into physical gold/silver/platinum.
Try not to get caught up in the consumerism lifestyle, live a simple life.
Consider ethical investments, there are plenty of companies now providing these options.
Join groups or campaign for monetary reform, write to your Member of Parliament etc.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

A.W

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2016, 04:53:24 PM »
Salaam.

I agree with what you said above.The problem is on the foundation / roots of this system. To be very honest, I am very scared about my future. If I stay alive by the will of God, I am going to inherit a lot of money from my father sometime in the future, God willing. It's not that I won't need the money. I, in fact, will need it to survive. However, where am I going to put all those money if not in the bank? Will I be sinful? Only God knows. And it bothers me a lot being uncertain about whether I will be a sinful or not. I just don't know what to do, and this life is definitely an extremely difficult test.

Walaikum salaam,

Use it properly and equitably. One person alone cant break the system we are born into unfortunately but you can carry yourself in the best conduct and as equitable as possible.

See suggestions by Wakas above, they are very good examples.

The Guided One

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 11:39:45 AM »
Salaam.

I agree with what you said above.The problem is on the foundation / roots of this system. To be very honest, I am very scared about my future. If I stay alive by the will of God, I am going to inherit a lot of money from my father sometime in the future, God willing. It's not that I won't need the money. I, in fact, will need it to survive. However, where am I going to put all those money if not in the bank? Will I be sinful? Only God knows. And it bothers me a lot being uncertain about whether I will be a sinful or not. I just don't know what to do, and this life is definitely an extremely difficult test.

Selam,

The best way to keep you money safe is an your own safe, but most people are scared to have so much money in their houses. But as a Muslim if you believe that you are righteous and your money is halal than you should not be scared and pray to Al Lah to keep you safe and your money. But if you want to go the bank and put the money there so that in 10 or 20 years your money fund grows than you are sinful indeed. My advice is to do something with that money, invest it in something that others can benefit from. Maybe a school or a orphan shelter or a clinic that helps people get off drugs. You can open a restaurant and when you see people who are hungry, feed them free of charge. Life is a test, but not a difficult test, it is a easy test. If you have no other option than to put it in the bank than the interest ( riba ) you get, that you should give to a charity. Also the zakat, but the riba you should not mix with your halal money and you should not take it home. So every year you go the bank and take the interest, go to a charity and give it away. I think this is the best way if you have riba money and you do not want it.

I want to start a fight club, this because i want to train kids and women to defend them self. In the last war in 1992 in my country many girls and women were raped and i want to train them so they can defend them self. As a trained MMA fighter i know how to kill with hands and i am also worried if i learn them this way of fighting, will they use it in a time that there is no need for this. Will i be the one who did the haram. So i am also scred about my future actions,but i trust Al Lah that everything will work out fine. When i have the time and money in shaa Allah, i will start this, train them for free and this is the best i can do. I do not have riba money, but i do have a dream. It is all about good deeds and if you do a lot, do not even worry about some riba money, especially when you give the riba money away, that is my advice to you. Peace
The Words and Signs and Mercies of Allah are in all Creation, and can never be fully set out in human language, however extended our means may be imagined to be.

Scribbler

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2016, 12:40:11 PM »
A few things a person can do:
Educate others about the money/banking system.
Eliminate one's debts (if any) as quick as possible, and for others if possible.
Consider putting your money into a building society (if they have them) rather than a bank. Yes, I know, its only moderately better but still better.
If you do earn interest from a bank account,, give it to charity.
Put a small amount of your savings into physical gold/silver/platinum.
Try not to get caught up in the consumerism lifestyle, live a simple life.
Consider ethical investments, there are plenty of companies now providing these options.
Join groups or campaign for monetary reform, write to your Member of Parliament etc.

Peace bro Wakas.


Thank you for your useful advice above.


Since we are talking about our current system, let me share with you what I think about the element of interest on loans. First of all, I must clarify that I have read both sides of the argument, i.e. the arguments of both the proponents and the opponents of interest on loans. I have spent countless hours and many sleepless nights doing research only on this topic and I am still doing. Considering everything, if you now want me to be BRUTALLY honest regarding this matter, then I would have to say that the presence of 'interest' in our current system DOES have some uses. I am being brutally honest.

Now the question is, how is it useful for us? I have no intention to argue with anyone but to simply put down my own thoughts for you to reflect.

Let us imagine a scenario where there is no bank / financial institution in existence. We have all our savings with us in our homes. Now lets say that a company XYZ wants to expand it's business, and it needs a loan of $50,000. The company came to you, or me and asked for $50,000, and the owner will return the money 7 years later. And he will return exactly $50,000, and not 1 cent more or less. Assuming that we both have $50,000 of savings, will you give him the loan? I personally will not give him because I have no benefit from it. And for 7 years I won't be able to make use of my money. And if I give him, I will also stay in the risk of never getting it back. And my money also didn't fall from the sky but has many years of hard work behind it. I can almost guarantee that almost nobody would want to give him the money without having something in return. Yes, there MAYBE someone who may give who has millions of dollars, but let me tell you, rich people can be stingier than average to poor people. Now imagine there are hundreds of people who needs long-term loans for doing business. In this situation, they won't be getting many people handing out long-term, benefit-free loans to them.

Think of another scenario. Lets say that our government wants to build a huge bridge for people's convenience in travelling between cities, and needs a huge, massive amount of long-term (about 20 years) loan. How many people will give it without asking for anything in return? And this is not the only one, the government has tons of other projects to undertake, for example, building roads, houses, offices etc.

If the government does not have easy access to loans, the country will not develop. And not having easy access to loans means, there will be no businesses / very slow development of businesses. Shortage of businesses means high unemployment, and high unemployment means more illegal activities, more theft and more murders. Think about it. We are over 7 billion in this world and increasing. The whole development of countries and its people's ability to earn and survive is highly connected to 'having easy access to loans'. And I have already explained that without interest or some sort of benefit it will be extremely difficult to have easy access to loans.

Another very important point I must say, and that is, if there was no interest on loans, then that would mean there would be an infinite demand while the supply is limited. Having interest on loans makes borrowing money more expensive, which limits people's demand.

So these are my few thoughts why I think interest on loans have uses. However, I still don't support the current system. I think there could be a better way because I am thinking from 'within the box'. There maybe absolutely a complete different way to achieve all these uses without resorting to interest if we think outside the box, a completely whole new system may possibly be devised. But I am afraid it might be too late now cause the world has moved way too forward with the current system. If anything was to be done, then it should have been done a few centuries earlier. God knows best.
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The Guided One

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2016, 01:14:43 PM »
@ scribbler

the only one who benefits from a loan is the one who has the money. So lets say that indeed i go and borrow money for a business and the loan is for 10 years. And in the ninth year i go bankrupt, than i would lose my house, because i have to give them something that has value. Than i take a look and i see that every year i payed 10% more and i realize if did not payed the riba than i would not be bankrupt. Maybe that is one of the reasons that riba is forbidden.

Second i see the mafia give loans too and sometimes you pay them double than what you have borrowed. Sometimes people do suicide because of riba. And sometimes they kill one of those guys from which they have borrowed money, because they can not pay the high interest and because they are tiered of being molested over and over.


Being a good Muslim, you should help another Muslim, so if you have money and you have family or friends who wants to borrow than you should help, but people fear that the one who borrows will get richer than he is, so that is the reason that people who are rich do not want to help. This is greed. That is what Allah shows us with this example from riba, to help and not benefit. Our reward will come when we come to Al Lah

About countries i can tell you that people pay tax and that every country can build a bridge without a loan.

I think that more murder happens with the riba system and not without. Also development can easy happen without any loans from a riba system. People can loan money from family or from friends. Countries have tax.

I will explain if there is no riba than there is no bank, also not only rich people would get richer,there would be a greater competition. There would be less controlled situation and than we would be equal. So lets say that i borrow money from my parents without interest and i start a business, than i am not on anybodies radar and they can not look into my books. I can expand with the money i make and i do not have a problem when i can not pay one or two months, i would not lose my house or my car.

I think that Allah knows how people control the world and how they control the people, that is by this system called riba. So we Muslims should not take part in this. As i said if we borrowed money from friends and parents without riba than we would be also oke and we can talk to them if we have problems and we can not pay for a few months. The bank does not care, you can not talk to them.They want their money and if you can not pay sell your house. No Riba, No Banks, No control.
The Words and Signs and Mercies of Allah are in all Creation, and can never be fully set out in human language, however extended our means may be imagined to be.

Scribbler

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2016, 11:50:27 AM »
Selam,

The best way to keep you money safe is an your own safe, but most people are scared to have so much money in their houses. But as a Muslim if you believe that you are righteous and your money is halal than you should not be scared and pray to Al Lah to keep you safe and your money. But if you want to go the bank and put the money there so that in 10 or 20 years your money fund grows than you are sinful indeed. My advice is to do something with that money, invest it in something that others can benefit from. Maybe a school or a orphan shelter or a clinic that helps people get off drugs. You can open a restaurant and when you see people who are hungry, feed them free of charge. Life is a test, but not a difficult test, it is a easy test. If you have no other option than to put it in the bank than the interest ( riba ) you get, that you should give to a charity. Also the zakat, but the riba you should not mix with your halal money and you should not take it home. So every year you go the bank and take the interest, go to a charity and give it away. I think this is the best way if you have riba money and you do not want it.

I want to start a fight club, this because i want to train kids and women to defend them self. In the last war in 1992 in my country many girls and women were raped and i want to train them so they can defend them self. As a trained MMA fighter i know how to kill with hands and i am also worried if i learn them this way of fighting, will they use it in a time that there is no need for this. Will i be the one who did the haram. So i am also scred about my future actions,but i trust Al Lah that everything will work out fine. When i have the time and money in shaa Allah, i will start this, train them for free and this is the best i can do. I do not have riba money, but i do have a dream. It is all about good deeds and if you do a lot, do not even worry about some riba money, especially when you give the riba money away, that is my advice to you. Peace

Salam alaykum.

Thanks for your post. Which country are you from, dear brother? And no, if they misuse what they learn from you, only they will be blamed for their actions and no one else will be responsible for them. And for me also dear brother, it's all about good deeds. I know the Quran is the word of God, I have no doubt about it, and my only target is to be saved the the hell fire  in the Day of Judgment and be of among the people of jannnah.


@ scribbler

the only one who benefits from a loan is the one who has the money. So lets say that indeed i go and borrow money for a business and the loan is for 10 years. And in the ninth year i go bankrupt, than i would lose my house, because i have to give them something that has value. Than i take a look and i see that every year i payed 10% more and i realize if did not payed the riba than i would not be bankrupt. Maybe that is one of the reasons that riba is forbidden.

Second i see the mafia give loans too and sometimes you pay them double than what you have borrowed. Sometimes people do suicide because of riba. And sometimes they kill one of those guys from which they have borrowed money, because they can not pay the high interest and because they are tiered of being molested over and over.


Being a good Muslim, you should help another Muslim, so if you have money and you have family or friends who wants to borrow than you should help, but people fear that the one who borrows will get richer than he is, so that is the reason that people who are rich do not want to help. This is greed. That is what Allah shows us with this example from riba, to help and not benefit. Our reward will come when we come to Al Lah

About countries i can tell you that people pay tax and that every country can build a bridge without a loan.

I think that more murder happens with the riba system and not without. Also development can easy happen without any loans from a riba system. People can loan money from family or from friends. Countries have tax.

I will explain if there is no riba than there is no bank, also not only rich people would get richer,there would be a greater competition. There would be less controlled situation and than we would be equal. So lets say that i borrow money from my parents without interest and i start a business, than i am not on anybodies radar and they can not look into my books. I can expand with the money i make and i do not have a problem when i can not pay one or two months, i would not lose my house or my car.

I think that Allah knows how people control the world and how they control the people, that is by this system called riba. So we Muslims should not take part in this. As i said if we borrowed money from friends and parents without riba than we would be also oke and we can talk to them if we have problems and we can not pay for a few months. The bank does not care, you can not talk to them.They want their money and if you can not pay sell your house. No Riba, No Banks, No control.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I still believe the lender has to be at least compensated for the amount of inflation that occurs within the loaning period, otherwise it doesn't seem just to me.

Lets say I want to build a house right now and I also have the money to buy it. Then someone comes and tell me to give him the money cause he needs it for business, and he will return it to me 2 years later. I consider his situation and I be like okay for the sake of God I will wait 2 more years to buy my house and he can have my money now. Then 2 years later when I receive the money back from him, I find out that because of inflation the material costs have increased, the house which would have cost $80,000 to build 2 years ago, will now cost me $90,000, i.e. $10,000 more. So as a result of this, I will be at a loss and I believe I should be compensated for it.
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The Guided One

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Re: Book on Riba
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2016, 02:10:23 PM »
Salam alaykum.

Thanks for your post. Which country are you from, dear brother? And no, if they misuse what they learn from you, only they will be blamed for their actions and no one else will be responsible for them. And for me also dear brother, it's all about good deeds. I know the Quran is the word of God, I have no doubt about it, and my only target is to be saved the the hell fire  in the Day of Judgment and be of among the people of jannnah.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I still believe the lender has to be at least compensated for the amount of inflation that occurs within the loaning period, otherwise it doesn't seem just to me.

Lets say I want to build a house right now and I also have the money to buy it. Then someone comes and tell me to give him the money cause he needs it for business, and he will return it to me 2 years later. I consider his situation and I be like okay for the sake of God I will wait 2 more years to buy my house and he can have my money now. Then 2 years later when I receive the money back from him, I find out that because of inflation the material costs have increased, the house which would have cost $80,000 to build 2 years ago, will now cost me $90,000, i.e. $10,000 more. So as a result of this, I will be at a loss and I believe I should be compensated for it.

Eleikumu Selam,

I live now in Bosnia, but i lived in the Netherlands for 23 years. I also want to go to heaven and i watch out and try not to make any mistakes in life, because i know it is difficult to undo things you do.

About your house, i understand. But if you pay rent and do not buy a house, you are also losing money. I understand that when you lend money that inflation happens, but that can never be 10% or 20%.

Peace
The Words and Signs and Mercies of Allah are in all Creation, and can never be fully set out in human language, however extended our means may be imagined to be.