Author Topic: Al-Aksa incitement propaganda and the dirty role of Palestinian politics  (Read 3083 times)

عوني

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First this idiot and now this one as well who spread hatred towards Palestinians..

"When I found out Palestinians were renting a house in my area, I felt I had to meet them.

Most Arabs are nationalists, and have few if any similarities to non-Arab  Muslims, especially South Asian Muslims.

I remember, once in 1990s, a bunch of Palestinians rented a house in my area in Pakistan. They had received scholarships from the local university. At that point in my life I was very pro-Hamas. When I found out Palestinians were renting a house in my area, I felt I had to meet them. The image I had in my mind was of God-fearing people, deprived, poor and religious, sporting beards and dressing like real Mujahedeen, praying five times a day in masjids (mosques). I had never seen a Palestinian Mujahedeen before, let alone met one, so I was so curious and delighted at the opportunity to do so. I set out and hurried toward their home, which was just a few minutes from my own.

I rang the bell and a tall guy, around six feet tall and clean shaven, with whitish skin like European, brown hair and a strong, muscular body, wearing a black T-shirt, black jeans with black boots and hat came to the door and said, ?How can I help you?? ?Asala?am Aleykum,? I said.

To which he replied in kind, before repeated the same question.

?I am here to welcome you to my area and want to talk to you,? I said.

He thanked me for the welcome, but said, ?Sorry, we cannot meet you because we are taking a rest, please come tomorrow evening.?

After that, I met with them regularly. I was curious to learn about them, about their struggle against the Zionists. But every time I expressed my admiration for Hamas and my desire for its victory over Israel, they started laughing at me.

Slowly I began to discover that these Palestinians were very different than I had imagined. They never prayed in a mosque except for Jummah (Friday) and Id prayers.

They thought Pakistanis were stupid, and thought of us as second-class Muslims.

They rode bikes of a kind I had never seen in my city, except in Hollywood movies such as The Terminator.

They dressed, walked, behaved and spoke exactly like Hollywood actors. They had not a single feature in common with the Afghan Mujahedeen who were everywhere in Pakistani cities. Every night, they drank alcohol and brought prostitutes home. Once they fought with local university students; I saw one Palestinian beat up 10 students. These were fully trained fighters living among us, who disdained us non-Arabs.

After a while I realized they belonged to the PLO; they were nationalists Marxists. They followed the European way of life, not the Islamic one. They were fighting for their land. They nurtured hate against the Zionists, but theirs was a nationalist Arab struggle.

One time there was al-Quds rally in the city; all the business was shut and all the mosques were full of people chanting ?Death to Israel, Death to Zionists and Hell to Jews,? etc. As I finished my Jummah prayer, I noticed none of the Palestinians were at the mosque. I went straight to their home to ask them to join me at the rally, which after all was organized for their land, for liberation of al-Aksa Mosque and the freedom of the Palestinians.

I was shocked at their reply. I felt great humiliation for my people, my country and myself.

They said: ?We have nothing to do with al-Aksa day, rallies or demonstrations because we do not need help or support from Pakistanis. We need Arabs support and assistance, not non-Arabs rallies or demonstrations. It is not your war, it?s our [Arab] war. You are stupid people, you demonstrate for an Islamic system after the liberation of Palestine; we need only our land, not Islam. We fight against Israel for land only ? if she agreed to give us our land ... we have no any problem with them.?

Here all the Pakistani Muslims in our city were demonstrating in solidarity with our Palestinian Muslim brothers and sisters, walking miles with our families and kids on a hot, sunny day, hungry and thirsty, chanting ?Death to Israel and Death to Zionists? all day, and my Palestinian friends were drinking alcohol and watching Hollywood movies in their cosy air-conditioned rooms, courtesy of the government of Pakistan. They were laughing at our stupidity and mocking at us because we were not Arabs, they felt no sympathy with us and no respect for our efforts in solidarity with their occupied people.

I had seen Yemenis and Sudanese studying in my country before, but they were living with their families, studying and praying five times a day in a local mosque.

They had nothing to do with local or international politics, they just studied and went back to their countries.

The Palestinians were different. What I found out was disturbing. Our mosques were getting funds from international Islamic NGOs run by Saudi Arabia and Iran to promote anti-Israel, anti-Zionist and Anti-Jewish sentiment in the country, to further their political agendas.

Local mullahs were trained to recruit innocent Pakistani Muslims ? many of whom would willingly give their lives based on these imams? fatwas. The government of Pakistan had continually sponsored PLO fighters by issuing thousands of university scholarships. These mullahs had never visited Israel, had never met with any Palestinian before and had never studied the history of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. These hateful mullahs had only one concern: international Islamic funds to satisfy their greed.

PLO fighters were more interested in their un-Islamic activities than in study, they were fighting with locals and police had strict orders not to arrest them.

I was heartbroken, crushed. All my life I had been taught to hate the Jews ? but my Palestinian neighbors forced me to change my thinking. In Pakistan, we are taught the lie that al-Aksa is in danger, that the Israelis are faithfully plotting to destroy our first house of Allah and that we need to stop the Zionists. What we are not told is that Jordan maintains administrative oversight of the Temple Mount/Haram al Sharif. There is effectively no Israeli control of al-Aksa whatsoever.

In over 40 years, despite the constant religious incitement I have yet to see al-Aksa endangered by Israelis in any way. Palestinians, on the other hand, have disrespected the purity of the Holy Masjid several times during that period ? and no Muslim ever condemned these unholy acts committed by violent Palestinians.

The author is an independent researcher focusing on counter- terrorism and violent extremism."

Taken from: http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Al-Aksa-incitement-propaganda-and-the-dirty-role-of-Palestinian-politics-in-Pakistan-441953



Bender

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Yes Pakistanis and Pakistan are evil and Sweden is the best!
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

عوني

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Where did I write that Pakistanis are 'evil' people? Unlike some users from Pakistan who make such idiotic and similar comments towards others on this Forum no one says that they are 'evil'. You made that assumption. I'd like to know why this 'author' is lying though, for example:

1) He seems to imply that the Palestinians in Pakistan he met were above the law. I guess those Palestinians who hjiacked the Pan Am Flight 73 were also above the law when they were almost given death-sentence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_73 "Twenty of the passengers were killed during the hijacking; twelve of them were from India and the rest were from the United States, Pakistan, and Mexico. All the hijackers were arrested and sentenced to death in Pakistan; however, the sentences were later commuted to life in prison. On July 6, 1988, five Palestinian men were convicted in Pakistan for their roles in the hijacking and murders and sentenced to death: Zayd Hassan Abd al-Latif Safarini, Wadoud Muhammad Hafiz al-Turki, Jamal Saeed Abdul Rahim, Muhammad Abdullah Khalil Hussain ar-Rahayyal, and Muhammad Ahmed al-Munawar.[9] The sentences were later commuted to life in prison."

2) He claims that he was pro-Palestine but then goes on admitting the fact that he was pro-Hamas which is not anywhere close to being pro-Palestine but rather anti-Palestine.

3) He lies and says that in Pakistan people are taught that Al-Aqsa is in danger even though nobody probaly gives a shit about Palestine. I'm pretty sure that the Kashmir conflict is even a bigger concern and that is the only thing that comes up in Pakistani media.

4) He also acts as if the Palestinians living there hated the people. That doesn't make any sense and they wouldn't be living there if they actually hated the country letalone the people. If you are gonna try and lie then try something that makes sense rather than the opposite.

In short words he is a liar and is misleading others. And yes Sweden is clearly hundred times better. Most Pakistanis would drop their citizenship to live in countries like Sweden of course Sweden is the best. One thing the author got right though is that the Palestinians he met were socialist secularists which is why his pro-Israel friends started to bash him in the comment section.

Bender

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Where did I write that Pakistanis are 'evil' people? Unlike some users from Pakistan who make such idiotic and similar comments towards others on this Forum no one says that they are 'evil'. You made that assumption.
Maybe you did not have noticed it but a lot of your recent posts and topics are negative about Pakistani, I would almost argue that you are on some crusade.

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And yes Sweden is clearly hundred times better. Most Pakistanis would drop their citizenship to live in countries like Sweden of course Sweden is the best. One thing the author got right though is that the Palestinians he met were socialist secularists which is why his pro-Israel friends started to bash him in the comment section.
RED: So what? What about yourself, where do you live now and what are your roots?  And don't forget your countrymen, who are risking every day their lives to get away from your country.
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عوني

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Maybe you did not have noticed it but a lot of your recent posts and topics are negative about Pakistani, I would almost argue that you are on some crusade.

3-4 topics about Pakistan isn't 'a lot'. Most of my posts and topics (even the recent ones) are still on other subject (especially the Levant and Iraq) rather than 'Pakistan'. Infact a very small percentage is about Pakistan. Also some or most of it is not negative. If you bother to read everything instead of making assumptions and waisting time you would pretty much know. Please stop copying other trolls when you write 'Crusade'.


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RED: So what? What about yourself, where do you live now and what are your roots?  And don't forget your countrymen, who are risking every day their lives to get away from your country.

Actually most are still living in refugee camps in the neighbouring countries (hoping to return) and in their own country. Most people that come to Europe are not really Syrians but rather Afghans, Indians, Pakistanis, North-Africans, etc. were many of them use fake Syrian passports to get into Europe easier. One of the Paris attackers for example used a fake Syrian passport as it is very easy to acquire especially in Turkey. Hundred percent of the Syrian refugees I've spoken to want to return to Syria but this is not because of arrogance or anything like that but rather because they feel more 'comfortable' living in their homeland so it is really doubtful that most would drop their citizenship to live in countries like Sweden as it would mean they would have to learn a new language and leave behind everything they have at home.


Bender

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3-4 topics about Pakistan isn't 'a lot'.
Out of the last 10 topics it's a lot especially since it's not your homeland.

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Most of my posts and topics (even the recent ones) are still on other subject (especially the Levant and Iraq) rather than 'Pakistan'.
Infact a very small percentage is about Pakistan.  Also some or most of it is not negative.
 If you bother to read everything instead of making assumptions and waisting time you would pretty much know.
I did a quick check, in your last 50 posts you used like 100 times the word "pakistan(i)" that is an average of 2 per post.
I just gave it  a quick look but if I am not wrong not a single time you had something positive to say or even neutral, all are negative.

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Please stop copying other trolls when you write 'Crusade'.
I am the only troll here, since you nor the other person have copyright on that word I am allowed to use it. If I am not wrong it's also not against the forum rules.
So the stats clearly show (at least for me) that you are on a crusade, I do not have a better word, if you have one please share then I can use that instead of crusade if it is the word that is bothering you.

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Actually most are still living in refugee camps in the neighbouring countries (hoping to return) and in their own country. Most people that come to Europe are not really Syrians but rather Afghans, Indians, Pakistanis, North-Africans, etc. were many of them use fake Syrian passports to get into Europe easier. One of the Paris attackers for example used a fake Syrian passport as it is very easy to acquire especially in Turkey.
And most of those people do not get asylum, except if they can proof that they are indeed war-refugees (like syrians and afghans).
But the fact is that just like many pakistani there are also many syrians who prefer to live outside their homeland, one of them is you.

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Hundred percent of the Syrian refugees I've spoken to want to return to Syria but this is not because of arrogance or anything like that but rather because they feel more 'comfortable' living in their homeland so it is really doubtful that most would drop their citizenship to live in countries like Sweden as it would mean they would have to learn a new language and leave behind everything they have at home.
Hundred percent  :)
We moroccans (more then 80%*) also used to say that back in the late sixties and seventies when The Netherlands took us in as immigrant workers  :yes

* No official data, just from the people I know.
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

عوني

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Out of the last 10 topics it's a lot especially since it's not your homeland.
I did a quick check, in your last 50 posts you used like 100 times the word "pakistan(i)" that is an average of 2 per post.
I just gave it  a quick look but if I am not wrong not a single time you had something positive to say or even neutral, all are negative.
I am the only troll here, since you nor the other person have copyright on that word I am allowed to use it. If I am not wrong it's also not against the forum rules.
So the stats clearly show (at least for me) that you are on a crusade, I do not have a better word, if you have one please share then I can use that instead of crusade if it is the word that is bothering you.
And most of those people do not get asylum, except if they can proof that they are indeed war-refugees (like syrians and afghans).
But the fact is that just like many pakistani there are also many syrians who prefer to live outside their homeland, one of them is you.
Hundred percent  :)
We moroccans (more then 80%*) also used to say that back in the late sixties and seventies when The Netherlands took us in as immigrant workers  :yes

* No official data, just from the people I know.



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Out of the last 10 topics it's a lot especially since it's not your homeland.

1) I guess Maajid Nawaz shouldn't have the right to talk so much about Syria or the other 'Muslim' countries because it is not his homeland. All those Pakistani human right-activists in Europe don't have the right to talk about Syria so much because they are not from there (especially since they tend to talk about the country more than their homeland) Stop retweeting and writing articles about Syria and the other Levant countries. :=) This author writes a lot about 'Palestinian terrorism' even though he is not from the Levant. http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/noor-dahri/ He even retweets a lot more about the Levant than Pakistan https://twitter.com/dahrinoor2 Or what about Tarek Fatah.. He is writing 'a lot' about countries he does not come from. They must be on this 'crusade'.
2) And no it is pretty obvious that 3-4 topics is not a lot.
3) I should just take Pakistani citizenship then finally this won't probaly be recognised as 'a lot' letalone 'crusade' #Logic4u





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I did a quick check, in your last 50 posts you used like 100 times the word "pakistan(i)" that is an average of 2 per post.
I just gave it  a quick look but if I am not wrong not a single time you had something positive to say or even neutral, all are negative.


You didin't mention the amount of times 'Pakistani' would come up in my post, instead you wrote that my recent topics and posts are a lot about Pakistan which is false. Also given the fact that I write a lot, of course 'Pakistani' is going to show up many times in my posts. Like how can you not figure this one out already? Regardless it doesn't prove your point at all. And do take into consideration that much of my post that mention 'Pakistan' or 'Pakistani' are actually quoted from articles.

Also I feel that you are lying given the fact that this post was among my last 50 posts and what you would consider 'quite positive', but you clearly didin't 'know' that but you wrote that you did a 'quick search' so maybe that is why: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608322.msg384791#msg384791



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I am the only troll here, since you nor the other person have copyright on that word I am allowed to use it. If I am not wrong it's also not against the forum rules.
So the stats clearly show (at least for me) that you are on a crusade, I do not have a better word, if you have one please share then I can use that instead of crusade if it is the word that is bothering you.

The reason why I write 'troll' is because clearly you are not here to adress any arguments. Instead one of the first thing you do is to write about how much I mention the word 'Pakistani'. Also you say 'crusade' which I find is an exaggerating word to use and is the second reason.




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And most of those people do not get asylum, except if they can proof that they are indeed war-refugees (like syrians and afghans).
But the fact is that just like many pakistani there are also many syrians who prefer to live outside their homeland, one of them is you.

Actually they do, and prior to people knowing that many of these people were non-Syrians they did get away with it. The thing is before Europe didin't tighten its rules, many politicians made the assumption that people coming here were all Syrians and people pretty much got away with it especially those carrying a fake passport and so they were given permanent residency.

Also the reason why I live here is because I was born here. It is really ignorant to claim that many Syrians would not live in the Western countries because they are better. This exist in the younger generation though but quite suprisingly the Syrian refugees I've spoken to did want to return however it won't happen because by the time the war is over in Syria they most likely have jobs and a home and will intergrate into the societies. 



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Hundred percent  :)
We moroccans (more then 80%*) also used to say that back in the late sixties and seventies when The Netherlands took us in as immigrant workers  :yes

* No official data, just from the people I know.

This is actually the attitude of the average Syrian refugee IMO. Also refugees does not equal expatriates. Nowadays refugees are treated worser than before because of the fact that a lot of people coming here puts strain on the economy leaving many refugees disappointed. For example a lot of refugees get promised that they will find work once they arrive in Sweden or Germany, this never happens due to the fact that these jobs have already been given to others. When Immigrants came here in the 60s or 70s they were garaunteed of finding work because they were willing to work for lower wages and because they were one of the first to seek out these jobs. This is when Europe did not have as high unemployment as it does today.

Also most Syrians that to go to Europe don't go to Europe because of what is happening in Syria (at least not directly), instead they go to Europe because the treatment of refugees in the neighbouring countries is quite horrible which makes them want to leave and seek other countries instead.

While I have a lot of criticism about some of these newspaper, I doubt that this is false as I've heard it too:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/meet-syrian-refugees-dream-europe-160426122400104.html - Meet the Syrian refugees who do not dream of Europe
http://www.timesofisrael.com/syrian-refugees-who-want-to-return-home-are-stuck-in-germany/
http://yournationnews.com/syrian-refugees-complain-about-treatment-say-they-want-to-go-home/
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/they-are-more-or-less-trapped-in-germany-hundreds-of-syrian-refugees-desperate-to-go-home-are-stuck-abroad
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/syrian-refugees-europe-160504111600535.html - Syrian refugees: 'We would not consider Europe'
http://www.euronews.com/2016/06/09/disillusioned-syrian-refugees-return-home/
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2016/Jun-02/354847-syrian-refugees-who-want-to-return-home-are-stuck-in-germany.ashx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-6oPG7LODc - A video of Kinan Masalmeh, a 13-year-old Syrian refugee interviewed this week by Al Jazeera outside a Budapest train station, has gone viral on social media, probably because it eloquently explains a powerful truth about the refugee crisis: Refugees would much rather be at home than in Europe.

It is even suprising that most who come to Europe are still mostly non-Syrians.


Hizbullah

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Yes Pakistanis and Pakistan are evil and Sweden is the best!

Well Bender have you been to Pakistan? You will have to mix with them, in order to know what kind of people they are.

I am not saying all of them are bad, but the ones i encountered were terrible. Unlike the Iranians and the people of the Levant [fyi...Levantines are not Arabs but Arabized Arabs], are much better.

 :peace:

Q:02:32 - They said, "Exalted are YOU; we have no knowledge except what YOU have taught us. Indeed, it is YOU who is the Knowing, the Wise."

Zulf

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Peace all

Well Bender have you been to Pakistan? You will have to mix with them, in order to know what kind of people they are.

I have. They're not better or worse than say Indians, Europeans or Arabs.
When one comes across alot of people from alot of places across the world, one starts realizing that people are basically people. There are of course always some characteristics, but as you grow older you see that people are all human beings. The similarities are more than the differences. But I guess we all choose what we want to see.

I don't judge easily. But when I do judge, I keep in mind that I might be very wrong and that it is all about perspective. This is my perspective, not Truth, and it is flawed (as I'm not God).

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I am not saying all of them are bad,
Thank God, that would have been, in the best of cases, beyond a mix of ignorant and inexperienced.

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, but the ones i encountered were terrible.
Unfortunate. Sorry to hear. I believe you though.

I've encountered terrible people among both arabs, iranians and pakistanis ...
I've also encountered wonderful people among these groups.


In general, I find the whole comparing of groups of people, evaluating them as good, bad, or any other attribute, as revolting. Judging and labeling someone says more about the people doing it than it says about the people they label. Even when we have a certain opinion about, lets say a certain ethnic group, it would be wise/good/sensible/righteous to keep the negative things to one's own mind.... no matter how true one thinks they are.

I've also learned that we have most negative opinions about the things we don't know so well. Unknown things we unconsciously fear... it's natural. Known things are easier to handle. Even when we dislike something known, we can still be relaxed emotionally so that we can admit the positive sides... there is some space for compassion. The more you get to know something, the less threatening it seems. The us-vs-them is fueled by ignorance about eachother.

If you name me, you negate me.

Zulf

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First this idiot and now this one as well who spread hatred towards Palestinians..

"When I found out Palestinians were renting a house in my area, I felt I had to meet them.

Most Arabs are nationalists, and have few if any similarities to non-Arab  Muslims, especially South Asian Muslims.

...

In over 40 years, despite the constant religious incitement I have yet to see al-Aksa endangered by Israelis in any way. Palestinians, on the other hand, have disrespected the purity of the Holy Masjid several times during that period ? and no Muslim ever condemned these unholy acts committed by violent Palestinians.

The author is an independent researcher focusing on counter- terrorism and violent extremism."

Taken from: http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Al-Aksa-incitement-propaganda-and-the-dirty-role-of-Palestinian-politics-in-Pakistan-441953





BTW,

This "article", very poorly formatted and all, from Jerusalem Post, is badmouthing both Pakistan and Palestinians. Odd?

And what about  the "The author is an independent researcher focusing on counter- terrorism and violent extremism."
Yeah, that sounds credible.

C'mon

The most dangerous stuff is truths mixed with lies and hidden motives.
What's the whole point of this article? Why is it in JP??
And why is it on Free-minds forum??
What's the thought behind?
Is it just innocently reported "information" to "enlighten" the public and make the world a better place?
Why did the author write the article in the first place? Why did a pakistani send such an article to JP?  :rotfl: Or maybe JP found it elsewhere on internet, but where is the source then? Or maybe...


 :brickwall:
If you name me, you negate me.