The Quranic stance on ghosts

[imrankhawaja]

Peace imrankhawaja,

Do you have any Quranic evidence which supports your claim in regard to angel beings? I am open to the idea that there are angel beings if there is quranic evidence for it. A claim can only be known to be true if there is evidence for it. Right?

peace taro ,
evidence number one

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
18:50 And We said to the angels: "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Satan. He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the transgressors is the substitute!


Shabbir Ahmed (Quran As It Explains Itself)
18:50 Recall when We said to the angels, ?Humble yourselves to Adam!? They all humbled themselves except Iblees. He was of the hidden selfish desires that drifted away from his Lord's command. Will you still befriend him and his comrades rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Miserable is the exchange the wrongdoers make.

your fav scholar shabbir ahmed interpretation is in there speciallly for you, lolxxx


evidence number 2


6:111 And if We had sent down to them the angels, and the dead spoke to them, and We had gathered before them everything, they still would not believe except if God wills. Alas, most of them are ignorant.


evidence number 3

6:8 And they said: "If only an angel were sent down to him?" But if We had sent down an angel, the matter would be settled, then they would no longer be respited.

6:9 And had We sent an angel, We would have made him appear as a man, and We would have confounded them in what they already are confounded.

evidence 4

35:1 Praise be to God, Initiator of the heavens and the earth; maker of the angels as messengers with wings of two, and three, and four. He increases in the creation as He wishes. God is able to do all things.

evidence 5

66:6 O you who believe, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones. Guarding it are stern and powerful angels who do not disobey God in what He commanded them; and they carry out what they are commanded to.

list is still going on but if you need more evidences i will send you in seperate link.

now tell me first somebody ask me about  jinss now they are coming on angels,

let  me know what you gona ask next,

human beings dnt exist, hahahahaha

if it exist prove me from quran?

is it your next question, and if i also provide reference of human being from quran,

its better to stick on topic , which i was fully agree with you , that spirits of human being cant be ghost,

but the paranormal reffered to something which we have no knowledge off, simple is that.

God bless you

[Al Khidr19]

w salam brother,

its about character/self/personality what have in jinn and in humans

human got a burden of garment call body whereas jinns have different set of rules which we have no knowledge apart from what God already told us,

by smokless fire mean its a metaphorical sense for making us understand the closest understanding we can say energy or form of energy ,

same when we consider  ourself as a product of clay apparently its not clay its skin , but when we analyse the properties of bodies in lab we understand we have the similar properties what clay/dust have.

issue here is not about our material and nature of substance ,
common thing in both beings is self/character/personality and thats what real person is.

bodies are just for residence for  self/character .

rest of the things inn universe is programmed by default to do exactly what they need to do, like trees, sun , moon, angels.
they are fixed laws already programmmed.
we jin/human are not fix law we have given a choice to select the path and decide for ourself what is best and worst, thats y sometimes our judgement  is wrong and we  get results in negetive shape sometime its positive,
its a quite honarable thing at the same instant its quite  risky .

BTW i did read your post, but theere is nothing there that indicate there is no such existence exist, on the other hand in the light of quran jinn are defiantely beings in which shape/matter its a different discussion.

GA pervaiz understanding of jinn is bit doubty . and rest of the quran alone scholars are not agree with him on this specific issue including javed ahmed ghamidi.

God bless you
peace

Salaam imrankhhawaja

You said:

"BTW i did read your post, but theere is nothing there that indicate there is no such existence exist, on the other hand in the light of quran jinn are defiantely beings in which shape/matter its a different discussion"

In my document, I have proven with evidence in the Qur'aan that the jinns while on al ard (the planet earth) are a human race, people, tribe, family, clan and not invisible spooks, spirits floating in the air like most people commonly believe.

[imrankhawaja]

Salaam imrankhhawaja



In my document, I have proven with evidence in the Qur'aan that the jinns while on al ard (the planet earth) are a human race, people, tribe, family, clan and not invisible spooks, spirits floating in the air like most people commonly believe.

w salam, brother

you need to filter your document in the light of quran, share some verses here like i share , i didnt see any evidence in quran that indicate jinn are a human race tribe family or whatsoever. its totally different creation with respect to human and angels.

peace.

[Al Khidr19]

w salam, brother

you need to filter your document in the light of quran, share some verses here like i share , i didnt see any evidence in quran that indicate jinn are a human race tribe family or whatsoever. its totally different creation with respect to human and angels.

peace.

Salaam imrankhawaja

In the document I have presented several examples to prove that the jinns while on the planet earth are a human race, people, family, tribe, clan.  Below is one of the verses that I used to prove this and notice that Allah describes both us and the jinns as rijaal which means: people, men, human race.  This verse below totally destroys the false notion of jinns being spooks, spirits floating in the air.

[imrankhawaja]

Salaam imrankhawaja

Edip-Layth (Quran: A Reformist Translation)
72:6 "There were men from among people who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin."

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
72:6 "And there were men from among mankind who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin."

Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
72:6 Yet [it has always happened] that certain kinds of humans would seek refuge with certain kinds of [such] invisible forces:4 but these only increased their confusion

?
Rashad Khalifa (The Final Testament)
72:6 " `Human beings used to seek power through jinn beings, but they only afflicted them with a lot of adversity.,

again look inside it,

character/spirits from human beings.
character/spirits from jinn beings.

thats what it means.

and all the translations by different experts will help you understanding this verse.out of these four translations 2 of them are native arabic speakers and one of them is urdu speaker, urdu also derived from arabic. and last one is from monothiest group including arabic english urdu persian speaker world wide. a perfect set of translations i posted here for your help.

you are welcome to post any more verses. inshAllah i will prove what quran confirms already

and about rajal its nominative masculine plural indefinite noun.

which perfectly fit with the sentence, for human being word insan used often by quran. common man i dnt want to teach you grammer and language, go research urself i provide you some hints how to research things,if u face difficulty let me know i will try to help you there.

peace.

[Al Khidr19]

Edip-Layth (Quran: A Reformist Translation)
72:6 "There were men from among people who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin."

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
72:6 "And there were men from among mankind who used to seek help from the men among the Jinn, but they only helped increase them in sin."

Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
72:6 Yet [it has always happened] that certain kinds of humans would seek refuge with certain kinds of [such] invisible forces:4 but these only increased their confusion

?
Rashad Khalifa (The Final Testament)
72:6 " `Human beings used to seek power through jinn beings, but they only afflicted them with a lot of adversity.,

again look inside it,

character/spirits from human beings.
character/spirits from jinn beings.

thats what it means.

and all the translations by different experts will help you understanding this verse.out of these four translations 2 of them are native arabic speakers and one of them is urdu speaker, urdu also derived from arabic. and last one is from monothiest group including arabic english urdu persian speaker world wide. a perfect set of translations i posted here for your help.

you are welcome to post any more verses. inshAllah i will prove what quran confirms already

and about rajal its nominative masculine plural indefinite noun.

which perfectly fit with the sentence, for human being word insan used often by quran. common man i dnt want to teach you grammer and language, go research urself i provide you some hints how to research things,if u face difficulty let me know i will try to help you there.

peace.

imrankhawaja when you said this "native arabic speakers" this actually means nothing, just because someone is a native Arabic speaker as you highlight does not mean they know the Qur'aan nor does it mean they will present the truth of the Qur'aan.  The last two English translations that you presented by Rashad Khalifa and Muhammad Asad has mistranslated that verse and I'm surprise you did not see that especially when Allah described the jinns as rijaal (which means men, people, human beings).  Below are two dictionaries which proves what rijaal actually means:





The word rijaal describes a man, a human being in all respects and again this is the same word that Allah used with the jinns because Allah is plainly telling you that the jinns are men, people, human beings, just like you while they exist on the planet earth.

When you read that verse (Qur'aan 72:6) with an open mind, it is clearly and directly telling you that jinns are men, people and not spirits, spooks floating in the air and the evidence of that is the use of the word rijaal in the Holy Qur'aan.  Again note that Allah used the same word rijaal for both us and the jinns because we are both men, people, human beings. You cannot get around this nor try to distort Arabic grammar to conceal the truth like the two last translations you presented by Rashad Khalif and Muhammad Asad.  The real problem or difficulty that you have as to why you cannot see this which is basic context and elementary Arabic is because of your belief system that you have of believing that jinns are invisible spirits.  This form of programming is effecting your ability to see the correct interpretation of that verse (Qur'aan 72:6) that I presented.  Now let me further prove to you what does rijaal means.  I will prove to you using the Qur'aan.  You will see that the way Allah uses the word rijaal, it means: men, people, human beings, human race, etc. and again this is the same identical word that Allah uses for the jinns.  Below is more evidence that I presented in my document:













Now I have proven to you that the jinns are men, people, human beings.  However, since you believe they are invisible spirits, spooks floating in the air while they are in the physical realm, I want you to prove this.  Show us a verse in the Qur'aan while the jinns are on the planet earth that describe them as a ruwh (spirit)?

I also have a question for you, when the Angelic Beings come down on earth are they spirits or are they men?

[Taro Hiroshi]

Walaikum Salam Al Khidr19,

This is an excellent post and I agree with the premise that there is no such thing as ghost, spirits, haunted houses or that people can talk with the dead or they can speak with us.  These are nothing but superstitious beliefs that Islaam does not recognize.  The revelation of the Qur'aan deals with true science. 

Thank you for your kind words. I agree with your views.

There are a lot of people who do not understand the true nature of the JINN and think they are invisible spirits while on al ard (the planet earth) which is totally false and unfounded in Al Qur'aan.  You might be interested in the document below where I conducted some research to rebuttal Arnold Yasin's research or misguided information about the JINNS and in that debate I clearly proved using Al Qur'aan that the JINNS again while on the planet earth are not invisible spirits floating around in the air like many people who has been misinformed about.

JINN rebuttal to Arnold Yasin
https://app.box.com/s/zemtkmojn8jf7dlkzbgb05qioq3nwprt

From the information you have shared on this thread, your research seems interesting. Thanks for sharing this document.

[Taro Hiroshi]

Al Khird19,

Excellent post regarding Jinn, by the way. As you know, the Quran suggests that Jinns have been created from fire. And it suggests that humans have been created from mud/clay.

I'd like to ask you a few questions. Do you believe that Jinn and Humans belong to the same race? Do you believe that Jinn are clans/tribes among humans? It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

[Taro Hiroshi]

Peace imran,

Your so-called evidences from the Quran lack explanations of the Quranic verses you have quoted, lack knowledge about the basic meaning of the root MLK, lack knowledge about the word Malaika (which comes from the root MLK) and lack knowledge about the different meanings of the word Malaika in regard to the different contexts in which this word/term has been used in the Quran.

All you have done is to share a few verses from the Quran where the word Malaika has been used. Is that what you call evidences from the Quran? Personally, I don't consider that to be evidences at all. The arguments in your post are not strong. I strongly recommend improving your critical thinking skills by learning the basics of argumentation. In a past thread on FreeMinds, Wakas has shared a link to an online course on critical thinking in one his post. It's an excellent course, in my opinion. Therefore, I deeply recommend it. You can find a link to the course on critical thinking here.

your fav scholar shabbir ahmed interpretation is in there speciallly for you, lolxxx

Until now, I have written 572 posts on FreeMinds. As is evident from my posts on FreeMinds, I have never mentioned who my favorite scholar is or if I have a favorite scholar at all. Shabbir Ahmad have done a great service in regard to spreading the message of "Quranic islam." He is a force to be reckoned with. And he has probably contributed at least 1000 times more to the cause of islam and the quran than you have done. So instead of laughing (saying lolxxx), you should acknowledge Shabbir Ahmeds efforts/contributions to "islam based on the Quran." Have you read any of his books/works or parts of his books/works? The reason why I am asking you this question is because it seems like you haven't read any of his books/works or parts of his books/works.

Although I acknowledge Shabbir Ahmed's efforts/contributions to Quranic islam, he is not my favorite scholar. Actually, I don't have a favorite scholar.
So your comment has no basis in reality. 

[Al Khidr19]

Al Khird19,

Excellent post regarding Jinn, by the way. As you know, the Quran suggests that Jinns have been created from fire. And it suggests that humans have been created from mud/clay.

I'd like to ask you a few questions. Do you believe that Jinn and Humans belong to the same race? Do you believe that Jinn are clans/tribes among humans? It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Salaam Taro Hiroshi

I'm honored that an intelligent brother like your self took the time to read my document on the Jinns exposing Arnold Yasin pseudo interpretation of the scriptures and also thank you for the questions.

As I have discussed in my document on the jinns, I believe that Allah used the word "fire" to denote or to let us know that they are deadly, dangerous, not that there is literally fire in the Spiritual Realm.

I will be happy to respond to your questions below:

"Do you believe that Jinn and Humans belong to the same race?"

At one time, Iblis/Devil/Jinns were in Jannah (Heaven or Spiritual Realm) along with Adam and Hawaa and as we can see in the verse below, Allah placed them on al ard (the planet earth or physical realm):



When they transcended/manifest/incarnated/translated (or what ever term one wants to use) from the Spiritual Realm to the Physical Realm, they (all of them) became physical human beings.  It is important to highlight that grammatically the Jinns in the Qur'aan has always been used in the plural form.  You will never find the word "Jinns" in the singular form.  Also the word devil or satan in Arabic has been used in the singular and the plural form throughout the Qur'aan and this is some of the reasons why they are described as: PEOPLE, MEN, TRIBE, FAMILY, CLAN.  Allah tells us clearly in the Qur'aan that the devil or jinns on the planet earth have a descendant, bloodline, progeny, offspring which further destroys the false Christian belief that they are invisible spirits floating around in the air:



Now to directly answer your question, I do not believe Jinns and Humans belong to the same race.  I believe both Jinns and Humans are RIJAAL (MEN, PEOPLE, HUMAN BEINGS) but they are separate races from each other.  I believe they have their bloodline and we have our bloodline; I believe we are the direct descendants of Adam (Qur'aan 4:1) and the Jinns are a direct descendants of the devil or of themselves (Qur'aan 18:50).  Adam, Hawaa and the devil/jinns came down on al ard (the planet earth) as separate people (Qur'aan 2:36-38).

Qur'aan 4:1
O people, observe your Lord who created you from one being, and created from it its mate, and through them He spread many men and women.  You shall regard Allah in whose name you appeal to one another and the ties of relationship.  Allah is watching over you.

Now I would like to answer your other question:

"Do you believe that Jinn are clans/tribes among humans?"

Yes I believe that Jinns are clans/tribes among humans.

Let me share this verse with you to show how we and the jinns are living among each other and also note that Allah says that He sends US (HUMANS AND JINNS) Messengers (Rusul).  Messengers (Rusul) are men, human beings so this verse further proves that the Jinns are men, people, human beings like us on the planet earth:



I want to present this outline below for the masses of Muslims that may be viewing this post who believes that the Jinns are invisible spirits, spooks floating in the air.  Note that there is not one verse in the Qur'aan that describes the Jinns as a ruwh (spirit) while they are on al ard (the planet earth).  Allah has presented an outline in the Qur'aan and He always describes the devils or Jinns as: MEN, PEOPLE, HUMAN BEING, TRIBE, CLAN, FAMILY WHO ALSO HAVE A DESCENDANT, BLOODLINE, OFFSPRING, PROGENY but never as a spirit: