Author Topic: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation  (Read 7016 times)

NewFreeMind

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2016, 06:42:18 AM »
If you read my replies earlier, you will notices that I have, multiple times, explained what I mean by being impure and I have highlighted the fact that when I said the word "impure", I don't mean it to be in bad way but it seems like you keep thinking that I mean it in a bad way.

Having said that, after Wakas explained, I understand that ablution doesn't stop a women with menses from getting purer.

However, the comment about men not approaching women during their menstruation on the verse [2:222] doesn't explicitly mention that they have to stay away when it comes to intercourse; so how do you deduce that sexual intercourse is what is meant in that verse, as it can mean a variety of things such as:
-Approaching them at all
-Not being in the same room
-Trying to touch them
-Talk to them.
and so on...

Salaam

huruf

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2016, 09:55:23 AM »
The aya says that menses are a nuisance, so take it anyway you like, it amounts to: do not be a nuisance to them when they do have already a nuisance with the menses. So just avoid whatever may inconvenience them, including sexual aproaches, since as far as I can see, those are not excluded and in fact get very near to the source of the inconvenience.

Salaam

hawk99

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2016, 01:58:49 PM »

Peace NewFreeMind,
Stay away from a woman during her period because it is harmful ( أَذًى ) 2/222
So the question becomes: how is a woman's menstrual cycle harmful to a man
and or to a woman.
    :hmm  I think sometimes it's better to do your own research
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

NewFreeMind

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2016, 03:25:49 AM »
The aya says that menses are a nuisance, so take it anyway you like, it amounts to: do not be a nuisance to them when they do have already a nuisance with the menses. So just avoid whatever may inconvenience them, including sexual aproaches, since as far as I can see, those are not excluded and in fact get very near to the source of the inconvenience.

Salaam

yes I am going to take it the way I like it as the above it's simply a contradiction of what you said earlier. In this aya, God doesn't EXPLICITLY say not to perform any sexual act on a women while she's having menses.

Quote
When God revealed the Qur'an he must have been ignorant because he obviously did not remember to mention menstruation..

Was God, in the verse [2:222], too shy to mention not approaching a women for sexual intercourse while she's on menses?


Quote
Peace NewFreeMind,
Stay away from a woman during her period because it is harmful ( أَذًى ) 2/222
So the question becomes: how is a woman's menstrual cycle harmful to a man
and or to a woman.     :hmm  I think sometimes it's better to do your own research

actually it's not, research suggest that some women can find it uncomfortable and some can find it even more arousing during this period.
Additionally, if the woman does not find it uncomfortable, performing sexual acts it's not going to cause any issue.
Therefore, saying that menstrual cycle are harmful to a man is absurd (it can be uncomfortable to women but not harmful)

huruf

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2016, 06:39:06 AM »
yes I am going to take it the way I like it as the above it's simply a contradiction of what you said earlier. In this aya, God doesn't EXPLICITLY say not to perform any sexual act on a women while she's having menses.

Was God, in the verse [2:222], too shy to mention not approaching a women for sexual intercourse while she's on menses?


actually it's not, research suggest that some women can find it uncomfortable and some can find it even more arousing during this period.
Additionally, if the woman does not find it uncomfortable, performing sexual acts it's not going to cause any issue.
Therefore, saying that menstrual cycle are harmful to a man is absurd (it can be uncomfortable to women but not harmful)

I said from the very beginning and it can be easily verified reading the aya, that God is not ordering women anything in this aya. As far as that goes, women can do as they please. Nothing on them, as free as the wind.

It is men that are ordered. They are ordered:

 فَاعْتَزِلُوا النِّسَاءَ فِي الْمَحِيضِ ۖ وَلَا تَقْرَ‌بُوهُنَّ

"...keep away from the women during menstruation and do not get near them..."

You, Newfreemind, say:

"God doesn't EXPLICITLY say not to perform any sexual act on a women"

If yu can explain to the gentlement how to perform sexual acts on a woman while keeping away from her and while not getting near her, I venture to predict that you will have a lot of thankful gentlemen for the tip.

On the other hand if what the Qur'an says does not have any sexual connotation (in spite of making physical contact impossible) it must inevitably have another connotation. Which is that connotation? Why should men avoid women and not gt near them while the menses. Woud it be something contagious? Would the women bite them? Would the blood splash them ?

Salaam



 


NewFreeMind

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2016, 06:55:48 AM »
I said from the very beginning and it can be easily verified reading the aya, that God is not ordering women anything in this aya. As far as that goes, women can do as they please. Nothing on them, as free as the wind.

It is men that are ordered. They are ordered:

 فَاعْتَزِلُوا النِّسَاءَ فِي الْمَحِيضِ ۖ وَلَا تَقْرَ‌بُوهُنَّ

"...keep away from the women during menstruation and do not get near them..."

You, Newfreemind, say:

"God doesn't EXPLICITLY say not to perform any sexual act on a women"

If yu can explain to the gentlement how to perform sexual acts on a woman while keeping away from her and while not getting near her, I venture to predict that you will have a lot of thankful gentlemen for the tip.
On the other hand if what the Qur'an says does not have any sexual connotation (in spite of making physical contact impossible) it must inevitably have another connotation. Which is that connotation? Why should men avoid women and not gt near them while the menses. Woud it be something contagious? Would the women bite them? Would the blood splash them ?

Salaam

BOLD: That was brought up because you made the verse about sexual intercourse with the following statement

Quote from: huruf
So just avoid whatever may inconvenience them, including sexual aproaches, since as far as I can see, those are not excluded and in fact get very near to the source of the inconvenience.

UNDERLINE:I have clearly asked a similar question previously on the assumptions that you made about men not approaching women for intercourse.

Quote
However, the comment about men not approaching women during their menstruation on the verse [2:222] doesn't explicitly mention that they have to stay away when it comes to intercourse; so how do you deduce that sexual intercourse is what is meant in that verse, as it can mean a variety of things such as:
-Approaching them at all
-Not being in the same room
-Trying to touch them
-Talk to them.
and so on...

In the above, I asked the same thing... why is that you're assuming it has to be sexual intercourse when it's not explicitly said, it can also mean not approaching them at all, not talking to them or anything similar. However, you have emphasised on the act of sexual intercourse; I am simply confused as to why you choose this when it's not mentioned and according to your previous replies God can't be ignorant to forget to mention such things.

Salaam

huruf

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2016, 07:37:29 AM »
BOLD: That was brought up because you made the verse about sexual intercourse with the following statement

UNDERLINE:I have clearly asked a similar question previously on the assumptions that you made about men not approaching women for intercourse.

In the above, I asked the same thing... why is that you're assuming it has to be sexual intercourse when it's not explicitly said, it can also mean not approaching them at all, not talking to them or anything similar. However, you have emphasised on the act of sexual intercourse; I am simply confused as to why you choose this when it's not mentioned and according to your previous replies God can't be ignorant to forget to mention such things.

Salaam

About the list you write ofthings it could mean, it is your list, about excluding sexual relations from the entence I will say it again: you cannot not get near the women if you do that, so you are already trespassing the command to keep off them and to not get near them. You do have to get near them if you are going to have intercourse. There is no way around that. It is not that I want this or that. In fact I could not care less, but in order to not include sexual intercourse (anybody can hardly get any nearer than that) the aya would have to be reformulated.

So there is no forgetting at all to mention sexual intercourse.it is already clear a it is, but if aproaching the women for sexual intercourse were allowed then it should have been explicitly mentionned. Because sexual intercourse is definitely getting as near the women as it gets and there is not way that you can get around that. Of all the other things you mentionned the question could still be open: How near  is it getting near?

As I also said before: the thing can be simpler: Dont bother them,don't inconvenience them, don't push them over, don't be a nuisance to them and that should of course include coming on them with sex demands.

This, like so many things in the Qur'an, are quite simple, matters of common sense, but must be mentionned because not everybody has as much common sense or is mindful of others' persons state of mind or temper. 


Salaam

Aries

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Re: Women: what is not allowed during menstruation
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 09:33:47 AM »
If you read my replies earlier, you will notices that I have, multiple times, explained what I mean by being impure and I have highlighted the fact that when I said the word "impure", I don't mean it to be in bad way but it seems like you keep thinking that I mean it in a bad way.

Having said that, after Wakas explained, I understand that ablution doesn't stop a women with menses from getting purer.

However, the comment about men not approaching women during their menstruation on the verse [2:222] doesn't explicitly mention that they have to stay away when it comes to intercourse; so how do you deduce that sexual intercourse is what is meant in that verse, as it can mean a variety of things such as:
-Approaching them at all
-Not being in the same room
-Trying to touch them
-Talk to them.
and so on...

Salaam

Hey, don't worry, don't have to explain every single word, I got your point and, well, indeed I think you have a point. I see the same root used to "purify" in 2.222 and 5.6. The Qur'an is all the time concerned about women and how to protect them, I believe God (Whounderstands what menstruation, pregnancy and birth are in all aspects: spiritually, personally, psicologically and physically) is just making things eassier for us. However, connecting both verses... i don't see it means that we can not pray or that we are dirty, I read: "You can take a rest, you woman, you manage so many things every single day". Think also about the hormonal madness during menstruation, He knows we need a rest. It's a gift to be a woman and a hard thing to be, so, girls, sit on the sofa and remember God from it as you want. Also keep your man away from you these days.... just as you need, don't you? Allah rocks