undisputed facts about Quran

[huruf]

What I do not get is why people get sensitive if Mohammed is the subject.
I did not say anything wrong about him, I only said that it can not be proved with only the quran that a man named Mohammed who lived 1400 years ago in the middle east is the receiver of the quran. If people insist that it is him, then that's totally ok with me but the fact stands that that understanding is purely based on Bukhary & Co, it can not be derived from the quran.

Mohammed (if he existed) is for a lot of people who believe in the quran more then other messengers, you can witness this in this forum a lot, and that is I think not really healthy.
BLUE: I have no idea.
From my understanding the receiver of the quran is mohammed (the meaning of the word) but can be anybody and is in fact not important unless you want to study the origin of the quran.

You re evading the issue and on top of it you say that people get ensitive on Muhammad. I have already said, I do not care which name it is, or whether it is a name or an epithet or whatever, what I say is again, there is obviously in the Qur'an a person who is addressed as the messenger sent y God to transmit th Qur'an. And I have said that it would be really intriguing why God mentions so many messengers and talks about the scriptures or missions given to them, and when we come to Muhammad or whatever name to cknowledge to him the same as to other prophets, neither more nor less.

It is not being sensitive, it is being intrigued by and attituted that seems inconsistent. o His name is not Mhyammed, why would God name very other Prophet and not the one He is talking about in so much of Qur'an, We have Musa, Ibrahim, Yusuf, Maryam, 3ia, et etc. etc. o either the one who got revealed the Qur'an is not named either it is called Muhammad or somethin gelse we have missed in te Qur'an. Either there is an answer to that which is logical and consistent or there is not. I guess what you are saying is that there is ot an answer to that.

I do get that the Qur'an is revealed to everybdy who cares to receive it, but so has been the case with every previous or later scripture, that is o answer nor an explantion for making the reception of the Qur'an, as narrated in the Qur'an itself an exception in the way that God has dealt with the Prophets. Was Muhmmad to be an outcast amonst the Prophets, without name nor recognition of his mission?

Nobody, well not I, am aking to crown Myhammad for president or anything la that that you call ensitive, I am just at a loss, always have been at a loss as to why he should be singled out for divesting him of the usual things which are vested on other prophets, like a name, an existence and an aknowledgement of his mission. 

Salaam

[Bender]

lol, you said its bukhari and company who claimed that, and then i handle their case becoz they are not alive, and in the light of historical evidences and historical records by multiple chains of multiple regions make them win the case,

Yes they win I loose.
But in the end you and all of your resources still have no quranic proof, still hearsay.

on the other hand a person mr bender deny to accept the perosnalty of that perosn and moreover he dnt have any evidence so far not any witness soo far,, not any historical record ,,so far , not any logical record so far,, in light of his own persoanl idea, court by law given the decison in the favor of bukhari and company.

thats what it mean, lol


and in the ending statement of mr bender he clearly say i have no idea, who recieved it, so case by default is illogical when there is no idea who recieved it ? how can be an idea its not muhammad ? moreover its the issue 1400 years old  only history can verify it. and history already play their role,

questions and answers of mr bender contradict with eachother.

peace and have a good  day.

Me having no idea does not make your assumption true.
And what history are you talking about?

May I ask why you switched to 3rd person?

as a good friend i want to share one verse with mr bender. hope so it will help, quran is very helpful for people always .

Edip-Layth (Quran: A Reformist Translation)
33:40 Muhammed was not the father of any man among you, but he was the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. God is fully aware of all things.

The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
33:40 Mohammed is not the father of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
33:40 [And know, O believers, that] Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men,but is God's Apostle and the Seal of all Prophets And God has indeed full knowledge of everything.

Rashad Khalifa (The Final Testament)
33:40 Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of GOD and the final prophet. GOD is fully aware of all things.

Shabbir Ahmed (Quran As It Explains Itself)
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is God?s Messenger and the closing seal of all Prophets. God is Knower of all things.

there are three main parts of this verse for believers , first is muhammad is not father of any men, second , he is the last prophet , third God is knower of all things,

third thing clear everything , lol
and God is telling us that muhmmad(praised one) is the last prophet, what else left moreover the interpretation is not by any bukhari and company group.

burden of proof is always on ...... you.

Nice verse but can you highlight for me the part where it says that Mohammed is the receiver of the book we call the quran?

[imrankhawaja]

Nice verse but can you highlight for me the part where it says that Mohammed is the receiver of the book we call the quran?

ok so do you want me to teach you 2+2 = 4

ok then last prophet = last revelaed book( quran)
second last             = second last revealed book(bible)

or do you also have anyother book apart from quran ,

let me guess what will b your next question,

show me a verse from quran, 2+2= 4

hence you did not show me a verse this math equation is wrong,,,,

[imrankhawaja]

Yes they win I loose.

yeh thats what happen when you claim something without proof , you just waste your court fee( i mean time)

[Bender]

You re evading the issue and on top of it you say that people get ensitive on Muhammad. I have already said, I do not care which name it is, or whether it is a name or an epithet or whatever,

I did not say Huruf gets sensitive but people, I know that it is for you not a sensitive subject.

It is not being sensitive, it is being intrigued by and attituted that seems inconsistent. o His name is not Mhyammed, why would God name very other Prophet and not the one He is talking about in so much of Qur'an, We have Musa, Ibrahim, Yusuf, Maryam, 3ia, et etc. etc. o either the one who got revealed the Qur'an is not named either it is called Muhammad or somethin gelse we have missed in te Qur'an. Either there is an answer to that which is logical and consistent or there is not. I guess what you are saying is that there is ot an answer to that.

RED: yes that is all what I am saying, from the quran alone there is no answer to this question, at least I did not find any and I never read any from someone else.
It's actually very simple those who insist that it was Mohammed and that it can be proved from the quran that it was him, then bring on the verses.

I do get that the Qur'an is revealed to everybdy who cares to receive it, but so has been the case with every previous or later scripture, that is o answer nor an explantion for making the reception of the Qur'an, as narrated in the Qur'an itself an exception in the way that God has dealt with the Prophets. Was Muhmmad to be an outcast amonst the Prophets, without name nor recognition of his mission?

Nobody, well not I, am aking to crown Myhammad for president or anything la that that you call ensitive, I am just at a loss, always have been at a loss as to why he should be singled out for divesting him of the usual things which are vested on other prophets, like a name, an existence and an aknowledgement of his mission. 

Salaam

what I say is again, there is obviously in the Qur'an a person who is addressed as the messenger sent y God to transmit th Qur'an. And I have said that it would be really intriguing why God mentions so many messengers and talks about the scriptures or missions given to them, and when we come to Muhammad or whatever name to cknowledge to him the same as to other prophets, neither more nor less.

There are a lot of good people (including messengers) in the quran without a name.

[Bender]

ok so do you want me to teach you 2+2 = 4

ok then last prophet = last revelaed book( quran)
second last             = second last revealed book(bible)

or do you also have anyother book apart from quran ,

let me guess what will b your next question,

show me a verse from quran, 2+2= 4

hence you did not show me a verse this math equation is wrong,,,,

I also used to do these kind of maths.

yeh thats what happen when you claim something without proof , you just waste your court fee( i mean time)

You are the one who is claiming something. I said I do NOT know. So if you have something better than the math above then please enlighten me if not then I guess you just know as much as I do.

[mmkhan]

ok so do you want me to teach you 2+2 = 4

ok then last prophet = last revelaed book( quran)
second last             = second last revealed book(bible)

or do you also have anyother book apart from quran ,

let me guess what will b your next question,

show me a verse from quran, 2+2= 4

hence you did not show me a verse this math equation is wrong,,,,

Salaamun Bender,

Don't you have wall around where you are sitting, go hit your head instead

[Wakas]

For me the traditional theory, thus a man named Mohammed who lived 1400 years ago in mecca who received the quran, is a likely as a woman named Sof?a who lived 3000 years ago in Cadiz who received the quran.

Surprising considering:
http://www.islam-and-muslims.com/External-References-Islam-Hoyland.pdf

[Comrox]

Surprising considering:
http://www.islam-and-muslims.com/External-References-Islam-Hoyland.pdf

Lot of harsh views there.

[imrankhawaja]

Salaamun Bender,

Don't you have wall around where you are sitting, go hit your head instead

good advise actually. but quote him not me. i dnt want to get myself blame ,lol