Does salat really means 'Ritual Prayers' ?

[almarh0m]

May peace be with you all

I have been a member of FM forum for more than ten years and had been visiting the forum to read before that. In that time, I have been looking forward to seeing a consensus from forum members and contributors and especially from leading intellectuals of this FM forum as to the meaning of salat. If salat really means "ritual prayers", then where is the clear evidence from Al Qur'an as to how we go about performing this ritual prayer(s) or a clear detailed instructions from Allah or from his messenger? The reason I am asking this question is, because there just isn't clear explanation as to what salat is, and if salat is indeed ritual prayer(s) as commonly believed by muslims at large, then where are the verses that explain how to do this ritual prayer(s) as instructed by Allah or his messenger? Perhaps, it is an oversight by Allah? These questions below have to be answered if we are truly following Allah's guidance and his law.

1. How do we start "The Ritual Prayer"?

2.What to read during this ritual prayer?

3.Do we perform this ritual prayer sitting down, standing up or lying down?

4.When is the time to perform this prayer?

5. What direction do we face while doing this ritual prayer?

I have asked most of the people I know that claim to follow Qur'an and serve God only about this Salat = ritual prayer(s) notion, but alas none of them have found the answers to the above questions. So, perhaps some of the learned and knowledgeable brothers and sisters could enlighten me and others in respect of this matter of salat is ritual prayer(s).

My sincere thanks

almarh0m

[good logic]

Peace almarh0m.

Can I ask you a question?

Do you do any "ritual prayer"?

When you answer , I can then proceed to tackle your 5 questions.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Wakas]

peace,

I do not believe it means "ritual prayers" but to answer your questions, advocates of such a view could say Quran gives the basic framework but it is an individual/freeform ritual prayer, i.e. you can perform it however you want bearing the basics in mind, or you can use Traditional Muslim precedent i.e. living sunnah/precedent, for the form/recitation and this helps answer any problems with a communal ritual prayer which would need to have some sort of uniform structure.

With regard to timings, the overwhelming Quranic evidence is for a minimum of two daily (for the mumineen) with an optional night vigil.

Some opt to extract a basic Traditional Muslim ritual prayer from Quran, and whilst this pretty much can be done, it requires knowing the Traditional format beforehand and cherry picking of verses to match it.

This answer may satisfy some.

[almarh0m]

Peace and thank you Bother Wakas

peace,

I do not believe it means "ritual prayers" but to answer your questions, advocates of such a view could say Quran gives the basic framework but it is an individual/freeform ritual prayer, i.e. you can perform it however you want bearing the basics in mind, or you can use Traditional Muslim precedent i.e. living sunnah/precedent, for the form/recitation and this helps answer any problems with a communal ritual prayer which would need to have some sort of uniform structure.

With regard to timings, the overwhelming Quranic evidence is for a minimum of two daily (for the mumineen) with an optional night vigil.

Some opt to extract a basic Traditional Muslim ritual prayer from Quran, and whilst this pretty much can be done, it requires knowing the Traditional format beforehand and cherry picking of verses to match it.

This answer may satisfy some.

I don't know if I can find my early post regarding salat, but as I recall those of us who were studying Qur'an back 1994 started to modify our "regular prayers" as you now suggested using 100% Qur'an only. As we learnt more we dropped verses that mention names other than Allah and reciting Al Fateha only during 'Raka' and praises to Allah during ruku and sujud while maintaining the traditional times and frequency of salat per day. Of course as we progressed in knowledge of Qur'an and specifically understanding 17/36, we dropped the number of prayers down to Fajr and Esha prayers only. As the years progressed and we learn more about meanings of Qur'an Arabic words through your PRL, I stopped doing the normal ritual prayers as is commonly perform by traditional muslims. I am now only interested in the true meanings of 'Salat' as related by the root word of Sad-Lam-Waw and verses regarding the purpose and effect of salat to draw my own conclusion regarding the real meaning of salat as per AQ. So, once again, I sincerely thank you Bro Wakas for all your help over the years. I will continue this thread with my current understanding of the subject and related verses of AQ and hopefully other forum members contribute their own insights to the discussion.

Peace

almarh0m

[good logic]

 Peace almarh0m.

While awaiting your answer from my earlier post ( Although I gather from your last post that you have done in the past), I will leave you with these two points:

1- Qoran mentions the one  word "Salat" in different forms( Verbs, plural,...)

2- Qoran also  mentions the two word "Aquimi Salat"( Using the verb Aquim also in different forms, singular, plural...).

In my opinion they do not mean the same thing.
The word "Salat" is used in different contexts in Qoran to mean different things as do the words "sajd" and "zakkat" and many other  Arabic root words.
Qoran is unique it can follow the rules or break them,if the rules are human made.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[parvez mushtaq]

May peace be with you all

I have been a member of FM forum for more than ten years and had been visiting the forum to read before that. In that time, I have been looking forward to seeing a consensus from forum members and contributors and especially from leading intellectuals of this FM forum as to the meaning of salat. If salat really means "ritual prayers", then where is the clear evidence from Al Qur'an as to how we go about performing this ritual prayer(s) or a clear detailed instructions from Allah or from his messenger? The reason I am asking this question is, because there just isn't clear explanation as to what salat is, and if salat is indeed ritual prayer(s) as commonly believed by muslims at large, then where are the verses that explain how to do this ritual prayer(s) as instructed by Allah or his messenger? Perhaps, it is an oversight by Allah? These questions below have to be answered if we are truly following Allah's guidance and his law.

1. How do we start "The Ritual Prayer"?

2.What to read during this ritual prayer?

3.Do we perform this ritual prayer sitting down, standing up or lying down?

4.When is the time to perform this prayer?

5. What direction do we face while doing this ritual prayer?

I have asked most of the people I know that claim to follow Qur'an and serve God only about this Salat = ritual prayer(s) notion, but alas none of them have found the answers to the above questions. So, perhaps some of the learned and knowledgeable brothers and sisters could enlighten me and others in respect of this matter of salat is ritual prayer(s).

My sincere thanks

almarh0m

Assalamualaikum almar
I think ,for me both Quran and salah are the same
both were transmitted  to us in the same manner
for instance ,In the case of Quran we never had the argument that quran came us to by the transmission of generation
i mean transmitted by one generation to another
To be logical, it must had been orally .We cannot say every household  ,in those days ,  had hard copy of Quran in their houses otherwise we would have at least billion(if not trillion) copies of Quran from our ancestors   
so it must had been a oral transmission
Likewise salah
even today no one teaches salah by taking ahadith books in their hands but they make us to perform it
so Quran and salah were transmitted to us in the same manner

yes,Salah is the most basic ritual in Islam

[HP_TECH]

May peace be with you all

Peace be unto you as well

I have been a member of FM forum for more than ten years and had been visiting the forum to read before that. In that time, I have been looking forward to seeing a consensus from forum members and contributors and especially from leading intellectuals of this FM forum as to the meaning of salat. If salat really means "ritual prayers", then where is the clear evidence from Al Qur'an as to how we go about performing this ritual prayer(s) or a clear detailed instructions from Allah or from his messenger? The reason I am asking this question is, because there just isn't clear explanation as to what salat is, and if salat is indeed ritual prayer(s) as commonly believed by muslims at large, then where are the verses that explain how to do this ritual prayer(s) as instructed by Allah or his messenger? Perhaps, it is an oversight by Allah? These questions below have to be answered if we are truly following Allah's guidance and his law.

I have given basic answers to your questions below. Because I am unsure of your motives. Are you truly unsure about whether the Quran contains all instructions necessary for salat? Do you even believe salat is an act to be performed at specific times anymore or has your perception changed?
Have you read the entire Quran? Because it is filled with instructions for EVERYTHING.
The OP sounds more like a question of a doubter hence my response is stern, but correct me if I am wrong.
My take is that anyone who has truly vested time into reading the Quran will find specific and clear answers to all your questions. I mean SPECIFIC. I do not mind sharing the specific answers I have found, but I feel you are bent upon a way already. You are questioning your Lord about His ability to explain salat. That is a bit arrogant brother. You are associating the worst with Allah in that manner, instead of assuming your understanding or grasping of a concept is not clear, you are assuming Allah has not explained it well. That is a destructive path to take in reasoning if you are indeed a believer and if you are a brother I would like to admonish you from such approach. Assume that your understanding is poor and seek Help with Allah to teach you and explain to you.
Trust me, if you will. All the answers are 100% in the Quran and 100% explained in detail.
I would rather though you take your time in humility and patience as I have for months upon months and prayer and submission instead of seeking answers to be spoon-fed to you unless of course you already have and this is your last resort/effort to seek understanding.

1. How do we start "The Ritual Prayer"?

With His Praise and Glorification

2.What to read during this ritual prayer?

Quran, recite what is easy of it.

3.Do we perform this ritual prayer sitting down, standing up or lying down?

All of the above, it truly depends on your abilities and on your reverence for your Lord and the effect of His Words upon your skins

4.When is the time to perform this prayer?

at dawn,before sunrise
at the going down of the sun until the darkness of the night
a night, during the hours before dawn

5. What direction do we face while doing this ritual prayer?

Face towards al masjid al haram from wherever you are so that there'd be no blame upon you

I have asked most of the people I know that claim to follow Qur'an and serve God only about this Salat = ritual prayer(s) notion, but alas none of them have found the answers to the above questions. So, perhaps some of the learned and knowledgeable brothers and sisters could enlighten me and others in respect of this matter of salat is ritual prayer(s).

Why do you need to ask people, why not ask Allah? He says that He is near the supplicant when he calls Him. Allah says call Him and He will respond to you. So who better than Allah to guide you concerning that which He wants you to do?
Unless of course the true motive is just to bring this up for discussion.

My sincere thanks

I hope you are earnest with us and yourself about your motive

[Arman]

Salamun alaikum.

I share here my views about salaat in Q&A format for whoever it may concern:

-   Does Salaat mean "Ritual Prayer"? Salat does NOT mean Ritual Prayer. The literal meaning of Salat is close to the English word ?reverence?.

-   Does the Qur'an tell us to perform Ritual Prayer? The more relevant question would be when Qur?an says establish salat (aquimus salat), or ?establish reverence? ? does that include a ?Ritual Prayer?? The answer to that would be, yes, there is support from Qur?an to substantiate that those who put faith in Qur?an are expected to perform some form of ritual expression of reverence periodically ? but this is NOT meant to be the end in itself ? rather a means to incorporate reverence of Allah in our lifestyle by refraining from deplorable behavior and by embracing act of kindness.

-   What is the frequency of this ritual? Qur?an does not explicitly and specifically mention it ? but there are indications that twice a day is the bare minimum, with higher frequency recommended.

-   What is the method of this ritual? Once again Qur?an does not explicitly and specifically mention it - but there are indications that recitation from the Qur?an, bowing down, prostration, prayer in standing and sitting position are expected components to this ritual.

-   Why doesn?t God explicitly and specifically mention the frequency and method of the ritual? This is actually very simple ? because the rigidity of frequency and method is not the objective of God.

-   But Qur?an commands to establish salaat so many time. If the frequency and method is not supposed to be rigid, how does one know that the command is executed? The simple absence of the specific details about form and frequency implies that one does NOT execute the command by being meticulous about the form and frequency ? rather the essence of salaat is in establishing reverence for God in our lifestyle by refraining from deplorable behavior and by embracing act of goodness. The ritual is just a periodic reminder ? almost akin to ?doing homework? to learn math. Learning math is the end goal ? the homework is just the practice ? it is only beneficial if performed with right intention and attention.

-   How should one perform the ritual then? There is indication in Qur?an that this ritual is expected to be performed in group. This endorses the idea that the customary method of ritual common in one's own community  should be the starting point if not otherwise problematic. Also Qur'an does indicate that the Messenger led his followers to daily named and timed salaat ritual. So, it makes perfect sense to seek the best practice in the customery ritual that has trickled down from generation to generation. Thus, the best option would be to learn the customary practice and take the best from it. If some specific component of the practice is not up to one?s liking? for example the darud etc? such components can be modified to suite one?s understandings. I personally however understand that Qur?an commands us to invoke reverence upon the messengers, hence personally I have no problems with the darud component either.

The other option is trying to ?reinvent the ritual? based indirect interpretation / extrapolation form Quranic verses. For a couple of reasons I do not support it ? firstly, it seems to me that such an approach seeks to invent the rigidity about ritual into Qur?an ? which Qur?an wisely avoids; secondly, such an approach it extremely unlikely to be ever agreed by the entire community ? so it is bound to generate unnecessary debate, division and fanaticism about the frequency and format which kills the essence of the exercise.

To me the most important aspects of the salaat command are: We MUST establish reverence of God in our lifestyle by constantly avoiding deplorable behavior and seeking acts of goodness. We SHOULD make the best use of periodic rituals to express and rehearse such reverence. We MUST not get carried away with the form and format of the ritual ? and be accommodating and tolerant to diversity in form, format and frequency practiced by different commodities. We SHOULD know what we say during the ritual and make sure we say each word meaning it with due sincerity -  or else our physical ritual is no more valuable than claps and whistles.

May Allah guide us all to the straight way.

Regards,
Arman

[almarh0m]

Peace @good logic

In answer to your first question on the first reply, Yes I do prayers. I do salat and I do prayers. Regarding the word salat in the Qur'an, is this what you are trying to tell me?

  = Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

musalla (مصلي) n. m. - 2:125

salat (صلاة) n. f. sing. - 2:3, 2:43, 2:45, 2:83, 2:110, 2:153, 2:177, 2:238, 2:277, 4:43, 4:77, 4:101, 4:102, 4:103, 4:103, 4:103, 4:142, 4:162, 5:6, 5:12, 5:55, 5:58, 5:91, 5:106, 6:72, 6:92, 6:162, 7:170, 8:3, 8:35, 9:5, 9:11, 9:18, 9:54, 9:71, 9:103, 10:87, 11:87, 11:114, 13:22, 14:31, 14:37, 14:40, 17:78, 17:110, 19:31, 19:55, 19:59, 20:14, 20:132, 21:73, 22:35, 22:41, 22:78, 23:2, 24:37, 24:41, 24:56, 24:58, 24:58, 27:3, 29:45, 29:45, 30:31, 31:4, 31:17, 33:33, 35:18, 35:29, 42:38, 58:13, 62:9, 62:10, 70:23, 70:34, 73:20, 98:5, 107:5
salawat (صلوات) nom. gen. n. plu. - 2:157, 2:238, 9:99, 22:40, 23:9

salla (صلي) vb.II m.
perf. act. 75:31, 87:15, 96:10
impf. act. 3:39, plu. neg. 4:102, plu. 4:102, tusalli (تصل) neg. 9:84, yusallee (يصلي) sing. 33:43, yusalloona (يصلون) plu. 33:56
salli (صل) impv. 9:103, salloo (صلوا) plu. 33:56, 108:2
musalleena (مصلين) pcple. act. plu. acc. gen. 70:22, 74:43, 107:4

LL, V4, p: 444, 445  ##  http://ejtaal.net/aa/#q=SLW

That would have been more informative and helpful, do you just assume that I have no clue about them? I started this thread with a hope to get more input from the learned brothers and sisters in FM forum, with intention that others who come to read the contents of FM forum may benefit including myself. I need to clarify for my own certainty that salat is different from ritual prayers and hope to be able to reconcile and put the real meaning according to context of Verses that mention Aqim salat. Cheers

Peace
@parvez mushtaq
I refer you to Qur'an 2/2 and 96/1-5. The last time I checked 2/2 mentions about 'Kitab/Book'  . As we all know a book is written or in writings ( not Oral), but don't take my word for it.

Peace
HP_TECH

No, I am not uncertain about salat at all. As the title says in question mark, I don't know if salat is the same as or means "ritual prayers". Have you not stumbled onto 17/36? Yes, I ask Allah all the time, or can't I question Allah, If not why not? Even angels questioned Allah, we are mere mortals who strive to understand Allah's message. For your information, yes I have read the Qur'an from cover to cover since I was seven years old, is that relevant? I have studied The Qur'an from traditional method and in other methods such as from the subject matter, topics and theme as well as word analysis through Qur'an concordace and lexicon.And yes, I used to perform the traditional 5 ritual prayers as well as the other so called pillar of islam[/b.

Thank you for your pointers regarding how to do ritual prayers according to Qur'an. I should ask you for more details about them, but I won't. What I am trying to do with this question regarding salat = ritual prayers is to ascertain that the purpose and goal of this salat] is reflected on those practitioners of "ritual prayers". Cheers

almarh0m

[Someone]

Peace almarh0m, all

For me, I see no base for a ritual prayer in al-quran.

I understand "salat" to simply mean "relationship", "yussalli" means "to relate", and "aqeem as'salat (or as-salawate)" means "to straighten up the relationship(s)". This is, I think, what we were doing all these years on FM, as you have related on your post. We are trying to get things straight - to understand things without bias. Also, trying to understand the point of view of each other is a sort of straightening up our relationships.

And for the timing, the expression used in al-quran in 11:114 (tarafaye an'nahari wa zouloufan mina al'layli) can mean "all day long and part of the night" as I believe we are required to be/act straight (according to the straight path in 6:151-153) all day long and some part of the night; we may have some entertainment afterward at night, if we want to. In the same verse, it goes on to say that "alhassanat yudhibna as'sayeate" meaning that "the good acts overcomes the bad acts".

Also, we should take the stance of Ibrahim (22:26 and 2:215) as a basement to our reasoning/search. His stance was "to not associate any thing to the god", and this should be the base to understand the world around us and to construct a sensible worldview. If we confuse some thing with the god, our worldview (or relationship with this world) will be flawed.

Straightening up our knowledge is what we do at schools, learning how things relate to each other... This is what brings people from the darkness of ignorance to the light of knowledge.

Most of al-quran is recommandations on how we should deal in our relationships, how to regulate them to the best of our abilities in order to be just.

But this is only half of the story, to understand what we are required to do; the other part, is to proceed with the improvement (or a'ati az'zakat). When we know the right way, it is not sufficient, we have to implement it to benefit from it.

This is what I try to do in my real life, and thus far, thanks to the god, things seem to fall in place with people around. And surely, the first prerequisite is to be a peacemaker, not a troublemaker.