Creation of the earth, sky and humanbeing

[tlihawa]

Salaam,

41:53   We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?

I have been thinking of this verse, and tried to figure it out how to get into the horizons to find the truth.. The ladder to the sky or a tunnel in the earth..

6:35   And if their aversion has become too much for you, then perhaps you could make a tunnel in the earth, or a ladder to the sky, and bring them a sign. Had God willed, He would have gathered them to the guidance; so do not be of the ignorant ones.

Even the flat earth model makes this thing possible, but I know I have no power to go there unless the GOD willed. So for now, I have to look at the alternative solution..

The creation of human being.

17:99   Did they not see that God who has created the sky and the earth is able to create their like? And He has made an appointed time for them in which there is no doubt. But the wicked refuse anything except rejection.

So the creation of the earth and sky is the same with the creation of human being.

40:57   The creation of the sky and the earth is greater than the creation of the people, but most of the people do not know.

But different in scale..

So they must be based on the same principle..

so according to Genesis:

Genesis 1:6-8
And God said, "Let there be a FIRMAMENT in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven



God separate the water below the firmament and the water above the firmament..

Compare to the creation of the human being:



I think the 'dome' inside the womb has protected the "water below" - the amniotic fuid, to enter the above layer..

21:30   Have those who rejected not seen that the sky and the earth were one piece, so We split them apart? And that We have made from the water everything that lives. Will they not believe?

And from the water God has made the 'living' things..

Same principle applied for both creation.



This comparison is not just explain what already happened in the past, but also what will happen in the future.

To make it easier to understand, here is the story  about two babies in the womb.

Do you believe in mom?

In a mother?s womb were two babies. One asked the other:
?Do you believe in life after delivery?? The other replied, ?Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.?

?Nonsense? said the first. ?There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be??

The second said, ?I don?t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can?t understand now.?

The first replied, ?That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.?

The second insisted, ?Well I think there is something and maybe it?s different than it is here. Maybe we won?t need this physical cord anymore.?

The first replied, ?Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.?

?Well, I don?t know,? said the second, ?but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.?

The first replied ?Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That?s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now??

The second said, ?She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.?

Said the first: ?Well I don?t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn?t exist.?

To which the second replied, ?Sometimes, when you?re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.?

Yup, God is surround us. Please be aware that this story is just for the illustration, not represent the GOD himself, but at least can help you to understand the situation.

As the babies had no idea what will come to them on the life after birth.. and so do we for the life after death..

32:17   No person knows what is being hidden for them of joy, as a reward for what they used to do.

I have been thinking of the pregnancy and birth process..

22:5   O people, if you are in doubt as to the resurrection, then We have created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then from a fetus developed and undeveloped so that We make it clear to you. And We settle in the wombs what We wish to an appointed time..

30:8   Did they not reflect upon themselves? God did not create the sky and the earth and what is between them except with truth and an appointed time. But most of the people are in denial regarding their meeting with their Lord.

Pregnancy has an appointed time.. so does the universe...

55:37   When the sky is torn, and turns like a rose colored paint.

69:16   And the sky will be torn, and on that Day it will be flimsy (weak).

78:19   And the sky is opened, so it becomes gates

And what are the stages of labor and birth?

I think the bleeding make it turns to red.. and cervix gradually effaces (thins out) and dilates (opens).

So talk about the scale comparison,.. appointed time is around 6 months for the pregnancy (first 3 months doesn't count in Quran related to iddah period).. And the universe itself has the appointed in time.. But no, I don't bother myself to calculate it..    Cause only God knows when it will happen.

It's enough for me to make me understand the creation of this universe.. There will be a second confirmation from the God at the horizons. I hope it will be revealed soon.. to see the mankind entering the god system in flocks.

Salaam..

[huruf]

Very interesting post. Quite ingenuous the parable of the two fetuses.

Salaam

[good logic]

Peace tlihawa.

You said:  There will be a second confirmation from the God at the horizons. I hope it will be revealed soon.. to see the mankind entering the god system in flocks.

It is here. Qoran is making the second comeback for this generation and the future ones. The seal opened in the 1970 s.
Yes GOD calls it the "Dhikr"- Reminder-. Some Muslims call it the "Mehdi". Some Jews call it the "Messiah" .Some Christians call it the "Second coming of Christ".
Never the less, Qoran is now being the centre of interest from all walks of life, all different races and religions. Its study is intensifying. Everyone will want to know what is so special about this book?

Watch this space. The "sign"  has started, it is growing up like your "embryo".
Who wants to know more? Go on ,get studying Qoran?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[tlihawa]

Peace good logic..

I agree with you about Quran. But I think the truth itself is not monopolized by one particular belief.

5:48 ...For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and if God had willed, He would have made you all one 'ummatan', but He tests you with what He has given you; so race to do good.

So I think all the people of the book (who worship god alone; true monotheist) must be work together, with respective kitab to find the truth.

I think the physical evidence of the truth must be stand upon the people who believe in God alone regardless of their belief. And I think this is the only way to see the people entering the God system in flocks.. How can we race to do good among the people with different beliefs if we just one ummatan?


Salaam

[good logic]

Peace tlihawa.

Yes ,I am in full agreement with you.

That is exactly what Qoran says also.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[imrankhawaja]

Even the flat earth model makes this thing possible, but I know I have no power to go there unless the GOD willed. So for now, I have to look at the alternative solution..

u have nice post apart from this,,,, and you was telling the stories of two babies,,, inside the womb,,,

i will tell you stories of ourselves when even adam was not here...its in stages... once when mankind was in process... second when mankind was asked for accepting the trust....

the creation we know and history we know its tradional... but big history is telling to something else...

story of creation in quran represent the successor , caliph, caretaker of planet earth... planet earth and species were already there.... but the properties of these sppeices is nothing more than trees or like mountians,,, when Allah asked you about the trust and we all accepted then the forms changed and basically it was authority,, thats y human being is unique ,, Allah authhorised you to make ur decisons ,,, so you are no more a random creation from now,,, from there our traditional history start,,, we can compare like that,,,

child story start from womb of mother ,,, but his test start at the age of five,,, when he get 16 his first exam clear...next exams going on..

from adam the emaxination of humankind is started,,,, there was a massive story before adam and after this exam as well.... i dnt know will there be any more mysteries to offer for us,,, on the next life,,, Allah  knows better but for sure ,,, there will b lot of things ,,, lot of things.,,,,,

[Sanjan Ali Hazarika]

2:30 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not.

Verses 2:30-35 and their interpretation throws light on the order of creation of living beings on earth. According to this ayat before creating human being Allah created the Jinns. Who created mischief on earth and shed blood. After the Jinns human being was created and placed on earth as Khalifa(Ruler). That is human being is superior to all the creatures created by Allah on earth. As a Khalifa it is the duty of human being to look at the problems of all living beings on earth.
17:70We have honoured the sons of Adam; provided them with transport on land and sea; given them for sustenance things good and pure; and conferred on them special favours, above a great part of Our Creation.

14:32-33 It is Allah Who hath created the heavens and the earth and sendeth down rain from the skies, and with it bringeth out fruits wherewith to feed you; it is He Who hath made the ships subject to you, that they may sail through the sea by His command; and the
rivers (also) hath He made subject to you.
And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon both diligently pursuing their courses;and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.
22:65 Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky (rain) from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man.
   Everything on earth is for the service of mankind. That is before the creation of human being the earth was complete with vegetation and all living beings(See my presentation "The order of creation of living being on earth according to Quran" in www.slideshare.net

[Student of Allah]

Shalom Aleikhem,

Do you believe in mom?

In a mother?s womb were two babies. One asked the other:
?Do you believe in life after delivery?? The other replied, ?Why, of course. There has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what we will be later.?

?Nonsense? said the first. ?There is no life after delivery. What kind of life would that be??

The second said, ?I don?t know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths. Maybe we will have other senses that we can?t understand now.?

The first replied, ?That is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths? Ridiculous! The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded.?

The second insisted, ?Well I think there is something and maybe it?s different than it is here. Maybe we won?t need this physical cord anymore.?

The first replied, ?Nonsense. And moreover if there is life, then why has no one has ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after-delivery there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere.?

?Well, I don?t know,? said the second, ?but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us.?

The first replied ?Mother? You actually believe in Mother? That?s laughable. If Mother exists then where is She now??

The second said, ?She is all around us. We are surrounded by her. We are of Her. It is in Her that we live. Without Her this world would not and could not exist.?

Said the first: ?Well I don?t see Her, so it is only logical that She doesn?t exist.?

To which the second replied, ?Sometimes, when you?re in silence and you focus and you really listen, you can perceive Her presence, and you can hear Her loving voice, calling down from above.?

Yup, God is surround us. Please be aware that this story is just for the illustration, not represent the GOD himself, but at least can help you to understand the situation.

As the babies had no idea what will come to them on the life after birth.. and so do we for the life after death..

This is a false analogy. I'll explain why.

Baby 1: You
Baby 2: Me
Mother: Universe

Are you suggesting that the Universe is God? Are we physical parts of God? In that case, all non-believers in God will agree with you. If you describe God as "our container and the things around us that provides nourishment", all atheists will then say that they believe in that god. However, that isn't what you are proposing. You are proposing unknowable things.

It happens that in case of the fetus example, we already know the answer to what will happen after delivery. We have Billions, if not trillions of example throughout the animal kingdom to prove to us that it works that way with delivery of mammals from their mommy. Do we have ONE SINGLE example of that of the afterlife? NO! Not a single one. Therefore it's irrational to equate the two. It's like saying, "The mommy duck gave birth to the baby duck. Therefore iPhone 5s must have given birth to iPhone 6". That is a very irrational way of thinking.

We have testable evidence for what happens after delivery, therefore it is irrational to say that there can be no life after delivery. What comparable testable evidence do we have for life after death? Nothing. Essentially, what you are suggesting is that just because human beings can give birth to babies, we must be able to go on living after our brains and bodies have been destroyed! Do you not see the problem with that? If the brains and bodies of the fetuses were destroyed in the process of the delivery, would the baby have a life?? If not, why do you expect human beings whose brains and bodies get destroyed at death to keep on living?


Peace
---------------- Student of Allah

[huruf]

Shalom Aleikhem,

This is a false analogy. I'll explain why.

Baby 1: You
Baby 2: Me
Mother: Universe

Are you suggesting that the Universe is God? Are we physical parts of God? In that case, all non-believers in God will agree with you. If you describe God as "our container and the things around us that provides nourishment", all atheists will then say that they believe in that god. However, that isn't what you are proposing. You are proposing unknowable things.

It happens that in case of the fetus example, we already know the answer to what will happen after delivery. We have Billions, if not trillions of example throughout the animal kingdom to prove to us that it works that way with delivery of mammals from their mommy. Do we have ONE SINGLE example of that of the afterlife? NO! Not a single one. Therefore it's irrational to equate the two. It's like saying, "The mommy duck gave birth to the baby duck. Therefore iPhone 5s must have given birth to iPhone 6". That is a very irrational way of thinking.

We have testable evidence for what happens after delivery, therefore it is irrational to say that there can be no life after delivery. What comparable testable evidence do we have for life after death? Nothing. Essentially, what you are suggesting is that just because human beings can give birth to babies, we must be able to go on living after our brains and bodies have been destroyed! Do you not see the problem with that? If the brains and bodies of the fetuses were destroyed in the process of the delivery, would the baby have a life?? If not, why do you expect human beings whose brains and bodies get destroyed at death to keep on living?


Peace
---------------- Student of Allah

I do not think you have got at all even a hint of tlihawa's point. Even though he did warn about som eof the errors you make in the understanding of the mathal he put.

Salaam

[HP_TECH]

Shalom Aleikhem,

This is a false analogy. I'll explain why.

Baby 1: You
Baby 2: Me
Mother: Universe

Are you suggesting that the Universe is God? Are we physical parts of God? In that case, all non-believers in God will agree with you. If you describe God as "our container and the things around us that provides nourishment", all atheists will then say that they believe in that god. However, that isn't what you are proposing. You are proposing unknowable things.

It happens that in case of the fetus example, we already know the answer to what will happen after delivery. We have Billions, if not trillions of example throughout the animal kingdom to prove to us that it works that way with delivery of mammals from their mommy. Do we have ONE SINGLE example of that of the afterlife? NO! Not a single one. Therefore it's irrational to equate the two. It's like saying, "The mommy duck gave birth to the baby duck. Therefore iPhone 5s must have given birth to iPhone 6". That is a very irrational way of thinking.

We have testable evidence for what happens after delivery, therefore it is irrational to say that there can be no life after delivery. What comparable testable evidence do we have for life after death? Nothing. Essentially, what you are suggesting is that just because human beings can give birth to babies, we must be able to go on living after our brains and bodies have been destroyed! Do you not see the problem with that? If the brains and bodies of the fetuses were destroyed in the process of the delivery, would the baby have a life?? If not, why do you expect human beings whose brains and bodies get destroyed at death to keep on living?


Peace
---------------- Student of Allah

You are wrong, we witness the repetition of creation in nature continuously on this earth.
An example is grass.
We see grass and crops turn yellow, die and then return green and lively after a rain or after seasonal shift.
Thus will be the coming forth.
You are like the root that will die and then be brought back once again.
Death is not the end

[Student of Allah]

Shalom Aleikhem,

I do not think you have got at all even a hint of tlihawa's point. Even though he did warn about som eof the errors you make in the understanding of the mathal he put.

Salaam

I wasn't addressing the post. I was pointing out that the story is not a good analogy for anything as it is fallacious. If you start your thesis with evidently wrong assumptions, it doesn't matter how far you go, you'll be on the wrong path.

You are wrong, we witness the repetition of creation in nature continuously on this earth.
An example is grass.
We see grass and crops turn yellow, die and then return green and lively after a rain or after seasonal shift.
Thus will be the coming forth.
You are like the root that will die and then be brought back once again.
Death is not the end

See what I highlighted?

CREATION IN NATURE. We have only witnessed it in our world. We have no clue about what goes on outside the universe or what "outside" the universe even means.

Not even your examples can save you. What we know from your examples is that if the conditions are right, crops can regrow INSIDE THE FREAKING UNIVERSE. Not even ANYWHERE. They regrow on fertile lands where it's hospitable. Try growing rice on a molten aluminium bath in outer space. It just won't work. So every example you bring forth will be firstly things we observe in nature, not outside it. Secondly, they only work in a narrow band. Finally, try destroying the grass altogether. What do you think will happen? IT WILL NEVER EVER GROW BACK after winter. That is what happens to us. Our bodies get disintegrated. Try doing the same to the grass, feed that to animals and see if the exact same grass grows back magically.



Peace
------------- Student of Allah

[huruf]

Shalom Aleikhem,

I wasn't addressing the post. I was pointing out that the story is not a good analogy for anything as it is fallacious. If you start your thesis with evidently wrong assumptions, it doesn't matter how far you go, you'll be on the wrong path.

I got hwhat yu said and I think tlihawa himself was conscious of the shortcomings f the text but the point of it was somewhere else. So I do o think you got at all his point, and the fact that you repeat your objetions does nno tchange the fact that that was not his point. He was not providing a "theory for everything".

Salaam 

[HP_TECH]

Shalom Aleikhem,

I wasn't addressing the post. I was pointing out that the story is not a good analogy for anything as it is fallacious. If you start your thesis with evidently wrong assumptions, it doesn't matter how far you go, you'll be on the wrong path.

See what I highlighted?

CREATION IN NATURE. We have only witnessed it in our world. We have no clue about what goes on outside the universe or what "outside" the universe even means.

Not even your examples can save you. What we know from your examples is that if the conditions are right, crops can regrow INSIDE THE FREAKING UNIVERSE. Not even ANYWHERE. They regrow on fertile lands where it's hospitable. Try growing rice on a molten aluminium bath in outer space. It just won't work. So every example you bring forth will be firstly things we observe in nature, not outside it. Secondly, they only work in a narrow band. Finally, try destroying the grass altogether. What do you think will happen? IT WILL NEVER EVER GROW BACK after winter. That is what happens to us. Our bodies get disintegrated. Try doing the same to the grass, feed that to animals and see if the exact same grass grows back magically.



Peace
------------- Student of Allah

Your flaw is in failing to understand the simile.
When you die and become fertilizer and dust and bones, this clearly occurs in nature also. That is part of our world our reality. You see the grass regrow quicker, but it will take more time and the coming of the appointed time for man to "regrow" from the soil.
It is a perfect simile. It is clearly a sound argument. We witness birth and death the same for grass and resurrection will occur with certainty just as grass regrows at its pace.

You are assuming a lot. You assume that resurrection is outside of nature. You have an abstract perception of it. While in concept is of the same fabric of birth and death. It is part of "nature".

Try feeding animals? I am sorry but that's a terrible argument. Animals having been grazing according to theories you support for millions of years yet there is no lasting depletion of grass, it still grows back.

[Bender]

Shalom Aleikhem,

This is a false analogy. I'll explain why.

Baby 1: You
Baby 2: Me
Mother: Universe

Are you suggesting that the Universe is God?

Hi SoA,

No, the mother?s womb is the universe.

We have testable evidence for what happens after delivery, therefore it is irrational to say that there can be no life after delivery. What comparable testable evidence do we have for life after death?

red: as many as the delivery.
Before you were alive you were dead.
And there was no one on earth (before you were alive) who could point at something and say there is SoA, he just needs to get alive.

Nothing. Essentially, what you are suggesting is that just because human beings can give birth to babies, we must be able to go on living after our brains and bodies have been destroyed! Do you not see the problem with that? If the brains and bodies of the fetuses were destroyed in the process of the delivery, would the baby have a life?? If not, why do you expect human beings whose brains and bodies get destroyed at death to keep on living?

you are only an inhabitant of your body, you are not your body.
If you donate 10% of your body to me then you will still be 100% SoA and I will still be 100% Bender. If you commit then a crime, you will get 100% punishment and I will get 0% punishment for your crime.
You do not have the knowledge of what happens with you after your body is not suitable for you anymore, you only speculate just like those who speculate differently from you.

Peace
---------------- Student of Allah

peace,
Bender

[Bender]

That is what happens to us. Our bodies get disintegrated. Try doing the same to the grass, feed that to animals and see if the exact same grass grows back magically.


Peace
------------- Student of Allah

The One who created you, created you already the first time, I guess (speculate) that He can do it also a second time, He already proved the first time that He is capabale of creating you. Maybe next time He will make an exact copy of you or maybe something different, He does what He wants and you can not stop Him doing whatever He wants with you.

[tlihawa]

Peace SoA,

Not even your examples can save you.

Yup, you're right. The examples cannot save me at all. But this example give me a better understanding about the future.

When someone says, "If Heaven is perfect; wouldn't it be extremely boring?"

It sounds like a baby in the womb which cannot imagine what will he/she be.  He/She has no idea how to walk, to eat using mouth, and so on.

32:17   No person knows what is being hidden for them of joy, as a reward for what they used to do.

Maybe God will activate other senses that we don't understand right now? To get the new meaning of the happiness?

I don't know. But with this example, I got better understanding.

And I don't really care if the non-believers will agree or not. They have to find their way on their own.

We are all alone..

Peace

[imrankhawaja]

32:17   No person knows what is being hidden for them of joy, as a reward for what they used to do.

Maybe God will activate other senses that we don't understand right now? To get the new meaning of the happiness?

exactly no body knows unseen very logical ,

but unseen must be something that we cannot see/feel/think.

lets think for a while our sense of eyesight advanced in such a way that we see distant object with big size ,i mean with some next level telescoope lens tecnology ,how we feel

lets think , our taste sense , imagine the best ever taste you have in here is 1000 times less tastier than the food in heaven , how we feel,( just imagination i dnt know our bodies will be same like now , our some different garments we will be provide to us)

lets think about ur transport , that travel more than speed of light , how will you feel,

lot of more things to imagine ,, but problem is this we cant even imagine what is hidden for us,,, and i m sure we will be very happy from our Allah . as we know in this low life we have lot of interests even we know we not not gona stay here long,,,

[imrankhawaja]

.

[fye]

The flat earth crap is dumb.
Atoms are not 2D
Everything is 3D and came together in an xyz- axis graph
Your all like the earth is round but how round?
The sphere is the easiest was for molecules to form with our a gravity.
If not then if an Apple fell from a tree it would be under intesense gravity.
If you go to a planet and everything is egg shaped run, lol