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A very long introduction

Started by Ahmet, December 04, 2015, 02:12:13 AM

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Ahmet

Hi everyone. My name is the same with my nickname, and it's the Turkish version of Ahmad.

I opened my eyes into a sublime sunni environment in 1977, and enjoyed all the benefits of a secular state until recently. My parents never bugged me with their religious ideas, and I will always respect them for keeping their abstract ideas to themselves. I started playing with the idea of migration since August 14th, 2001, the day a very fierce and ignorant man took over the reins of my country.

I won the Diversity Visa Lottery in my first attempt in 2011 and relocated to the US the next year. I opened a couple of mall kiosks with my savings, and all that foot traffic exposed me to a variety of people who had stories ranging from a week ago to two millennium ago. Among these people were missionaries, and I even became friends with one, yet we can not agree on anything apart from cars and economy. These people are 100% invested into their crazy stories, and I can see a broken, lost soul following them in hope for salvation.

People expressing their religious beliefs openly, and trying to get others into their temples to pray for their idols... This was new to me. They would be cursed away, or may be beaten up by others in a moderately religious environment in Turkey. I would like to thank to a certain Chinese-American missionary who helped me get where I am now. His truly crazy story helped me understand how religions block brain cells. After understanding how religions work, I quickly shed my sublime Sunni muslim skin and became a perfectly healthy agnostic.

At this point, I want to mention that I tried to read Tanakh Bible and Quran multiple times. I stopped reading really early in both books. In Tanakh Bible, I couldn't get past the part in Genesis where god says he will notice the monotheists from their circumcised penises. In Quran, I couldn't get past verse 4:34 where the woman ends up with a slap in the face, or beaten up, or beaten up (lightly) in brackets. Whenever I laid my hands on a different translation of Quran, I opened that verse to see if she's still having a hard time or not. She ended up the same in all translations including the English versions I came by. It didn't make sense since the verse escalated in a rational way, and then the husband lost it.

Well, I gave up for a few months, and then I was on fire again, looking for an explanation to this. I already knew Quran had very interesting scientific facts that were surfaced within the last century, and it made sense in a lot of ways, but then it didn't make sense in many other areas, especially when it was about women. I understood what hadith and sunnah was, and I deliberately stayed away from them since highschool years. Finally I came by a translation by Yasar Nuri Ozturk, and then Edip Yuksel, and then more in English where the woman in 4:34 didn't get beaten up.

Although I do not necessarily agree with some of their ideas, I would like to thank to Yasar and Edip for their great work. Rahsad is long gone, so thanking him wouldn't make sense, but he was a major player in getting people out of mud. They helped me understand that why Quran or Islam did not make sense all this time. Those people in verse 2:7 had the control on everything !!!

The most important message, Oneness of God is not an easy concept to deal with, and it takes continuous questioning and critical thinking to keep one's mind on track.

When I found out who the mushriks are, and that I was guided to the right path, I actually shed those tears of joy mentioned in Quran. It was so simple and easy, yet I was too far away from understanding it.

:jedi: May the Force be with you!


savage_carrot

Interesting introduction Ahmet, welcome to the forum.
God has a plan, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone.

Ahmet


Wakas

Welcome to the forum.

With regard to 4:34 I recommend:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html

QuoteThe men are supporters/maintainers of the women with what God bestowed on some of them over others and with what they spent of their money, so the righteous women are dutiful; guardians to the unseen with what God guarded. And as for those women you fear their disloyalty, then: (first) you shall advise them, and (second) abandon them in the bed, and (lastly) cite them. If they obeyed you, then seek not against them a way; Truly, God is High, Great. [4:34]
And if you (authority) feared a rift between them two, then appoint a judge from his family and a judge from hers. If they both want to reconcile, then God will bring agreement between them. God is Knowledgeable, Expert. [4:35]
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Man of Faith

Welcome to the forum.

May the force be with you too

Don't fall for the Dark Side of the Force (the Satan)
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Ahmet

Quote from: Wakas on December 05, 2015, 01:52:23 AM
Welcome to the forum.

With regard to 4:34 I recommend:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, that's a similar translation with the ones I've found, and through these translations, I started studying Quran, and I think I am getting closer to the most rational understanding of the scripture. It seems to be a journey for life, and hopefully beyond...

Here's Edip-Layth (Quran: A Reformist Translation) version, which is almost exactly the same with The Monotheist Group's translation. Same people anyways...

Quote from: Quran: A Reformist Translation
4:34 The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The reformed women are devotees and protectors of privacy what God has protected. As for those women from whom you fear disloyalty, then you shall advise them, abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.

Here is the foot note regarding "iDRiBuhunna", which have been translated as "beat" in many traditional translations:

Quote from: Quran: A Reformist Translation
The second key word that is commonly mistranslated is iDRiBuhunna. In almost all translations, you will see it translated as "scourge," or "beat" or "beat (lightly)". The verb DaRaBa is a multiple-meaning verb akin to English ?strike? or ?get.? The Quran uses the same verb with various meanings, such as, to travel, to get out (3:156; 4:101; 38:44; 73:20; 2:273), to strike (2:60; 7:160; 8:12; 20:77; 24:31; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4), to beat (8:50), to beat or regret (47:27), to set up (43:58; 57:13), to give (examples) (14:24; 16:75; 18:32; 24:35; 30:28; 36:78; 39:27; 43:17; 59:21; 66:10), to take away, to ignore (43:5), to condemn (2:61), to seal, to draw over (18:11), to cover (24:31), and to explain (13:17). It is again interesting that the scholars pick the meaning BEAT, among the many other alternatives, when the relationship between man and woman is involved, a relationship that is defined by the Quran with mutual love and care (30:21).

OussamaNL

Quote from: Ahmet on December 04, 2015, 02:12:13 AM
Hi everyone. My name is the same with my nickname, and it's the Turkish version of Ahmad.

I opened my eyes into a sublime sunni environment in 1977, and enjoyed all the benefits of a secular state until recently. My parents never bugged me with their religious ideas, and I will always respect them for keeping their abstract ideas to themselves. I started playing with the idea of migration since August 14th, 2001, the day a very fierce and ignorant man took over the reins of my country.

I won the Diversity Visa Lottery in my first attempt in 2011 and relocated to the US the next year. I opened a couple of mall kiosks with my savings, and all that foot traffic exposed me to a variety of people who had stories ranging from a week ago to two millennium ago. Among these people were missionaries, and I even became friends with one, yet we can not agree on anything apart from cars and economy. These people are 100% invested into their crazy stories, and I can see a broken, lost soul following them in hope for salvation.

People expressing their religious beliefs openly, and trying to get others into their temples to pray for their idols... This was new to me. They would be cursed away, or may be beaten up by others in a moderately religious environment in Turkey. I would like to thank to a certain Chinese-American missionary who helped me get where I am now. His truly crazy story helped me understand how religions block brain cells. After understanding how religions work, I quickly shed my sublime Sunni muslim skin and became a perfectly healthy agnostic.

At this point, I want to mention that I tried to read Tanakh Bible and Quran multiple times. I stopped reading really early in both books. In Tanakh Bible, I couldn't get past the part in Genesis where god says he will notice the monotheists from their circumcised penises. In Quran, I couldn't get past verse 4:34 where the woman ends up with a slap in the face, or beaten up, or beaten up (lightly) in brackets. Whenever I laid my hands on a different translation of Quran, I opened that verse to see if she's still having a hard time or not. She ended up the same in all translations including the English versions I came by. It didn't make sense since the verse escalated in a rational way, and then the husband lost it.

Well, I gave up for a few months, and then I was on fire again, looking for an explanation to this. I already knew Quran had very interesting scientific facts that were surfaced within the last century, and it made sense in a lot of ways, but then it didn't make sense in many other areas, especially when it was about women. I understood what hadith and sunnah was, and I deliberately stayed away from them since highschool years. Finally I came by a translation by Yasar Nuri Ozturk, and then Edip Yuksel, and then more in English where the woman in 4:34 didn't get beaten up.

Although I do not necessarily agree with some of their ideas, I would like to thank to Yasar and Edip for their great work. Rahsad is long gone, so thanking him wouldn't make sense, but he was a major player in getting people out of mud. They helped me understand that why Quran or Islam did not make sense all this time. Those people in verse 2:7 had the control on everything !!!

The most important message, Oneness of God is not an easy concept to deal with, and it takes continuous questioning and critical thinking to keep one's mind on track.

When I found out who the mushriks are, and that I was guided to the right path, I actually shed those tears of joy mentioned in Quran. It was so simple and easy, yet I was too far away from understanding it.

:jedi: May the Force be with you!

Peace be upon you.

Greetings from the Netherlands. Your brother Oussama. If there is anything i can do for you please feel free to pm me.

And remember, read in the name of your Lord. It's an arabic quran.

Peace.
All Praise due to The God, The Lord of the Worlds