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Polytheistic doctrine in the Quran, prophets invoking the dead!

Started by Nonmushrik, September 11, 2015, 11:33:44 AM

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huruf

No, I do not agree to such a thing. And the "invoking" part is idiotic. You are addressing something or someone not invoking. You do invent a lot.


Salaam

Nonmushrik

Hi huruf,

The "YA" in the Arabic text is in the vocative which means "invoking" not addressing.

(7:79:4)
yāqawmi
"O my people!      VOC ? prefixed vocative particle ya
N ? accusative masculine noun
PRON ? 1st person singular possessive pronoun
أداة نداء
اسم منصوب والياء المحذوفة ضمير متصل في محل جر بالاضافة

vocative
ˈvɒkətɪv/
GRAMMAR
adjective
adjective: vocative
1.
relating to or denoting a case of nouns, pronouns, and adjectives in Latin and other languages, used in addressing or invoking a person or thing.
noun
noun: vocative; plural noun: vocatives
1.
a word in the vocative case.
the vocative case.
noun: the vocative

I apologise if I misunderstood your belief. These verses are bad theological and doctrinal teachings.

Nonmushrik

Hi huruf,

I apologise, it seems addressing and invoking are the same definition. Either-way, addressing/invoking is the same thing.

The context in these passages refers specifically to addressing/invoking the dead.

huruf

Obivously that it is saddressing the dead is your own conclusion.

Good logic told you it is not. I do trust good logic and her logic.

You on the other hand seem to be playing some kind of wits game to show us how silly the Qur?n is. Upm till now the only sillyness I can see is in what you write.

Wits games are not the same as loyalty to truth and uprightness. So try being truthful and upright con dealing with serious things, so that you can be taken seriously.

Salaam

good logic

Peace Huruf.

I am making the following statement:

" Ya Nonmushrik,Qoran needs to be pondered to be understood better".

This statement will help others ,who read this thread,to make sure the context is studied to be understood properly.

Whether Nonmushrik is alive and sees/reads this or dead ( I know he is not really dead,just as example),it does not really matter.

This is a statement of fact that serves as a lesson.

So "Ya" can be used for both to "address"  or to  talk "about".

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

Nonmushrik

Hi huruf.

I've presented the evidence of what these passages speak of in context, I've also presented the evidence/implication of this word "ya".

huruf

What a habit in some people of calling evidence their own opinions. That is not evidence, that is just opinions. But you nonshirk call many things that they are not, so no surprise there.

hawk99

Quote from: Nonmushrik on September 11, 2015, 11:33:44 AM
Polytheistic doctrine in the Quran, prophets invoking the dead!

I am an atheist, not a Christian etc...

The Quran claims you should only invoke Allah ("YA Allah"), yet at the same time this "allah" endorses polytheist prophets who invoke the dead!

Salih invoking the dead after his nation had been destroyed:

[Yusufali 7:77] Then they ham-strung the she camel, and insolently defied the order of their Lord, saying: ?O Salih! bring about thy threats, if thou art a messenger (of Allah)!?

[Yusufali 7:78] So the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes in the morning!

[Yusufali 7:79] So Salih left them, saying: ?O my people! I did indeed convey to you the message for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but ye love not good counsellors!?

Notice 7:79, Salih is addressing the dead in the vocative "YA qawmi".

What in the world is this man Salih doing invoking and speaking to the dead, telling them he conveyed the message from Allah?

Polytheist prophet 2, Shuaib invoking the dead after his nation had been destroyed:

[Yusufali 7:91] But the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning!

[Yusufali 7:92] The men who reject Shu?aib became as if they had never been in the homes where they had flourished: the men who rejected Shu?aib ? it was they who were ruined!

[Yusufali 7:93] So Shu?aib left them, saying:?O my people! I did indeed convey to you the messages for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but how shall I lament over a people who refuse to believe!?

Note again, "YA qawmi", why in the world is this man addressing the dead?

In conclusion, the Quran endorses polytheism, invoking the dead. No wonder certain Muslims around the world say "YA rasulallah, YA Ali, assalamu alaika ayyuhan nabiyyu etc..."

To Quran alone Muslims who reject the Sunni tashahhud "assalamu alaika ayyuhan nabiyyu", which is clear polytheism. Now you have evidence that this practice is in the Quran and endorsed.

Peace Nonmushrik as an atheist you will surely find many errors, inconsistencies,
contradictions and falsehoods in Quran Kareem.  As for the thread at hand, you
simply misunderstand the difference between "lamenting" and "talking/Invoking."



       :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

Nonmushrik

Hi hawk99,

I provided evidence that "ya" is vocative, it means to address/invoke.

Lamenting? When you say "ya Allah", are you lamenting or invoking him?

Here's a simple question to anyone on free-minds:

When Sunnis/Shias visit Muhammad's grave they say: "assalamu alayka ya rasool allah" (Peace be upon you, O Messenger of Allah)

Is this polytheism or monotheism?

If you say polytheism, then the Quran endorses polytheism which you should accept.

If you say monotheism, this is contradictory because only "Ya Allah" would be monotheism. (I'm not speaking about addressing someone alive, that would not be polytheistic)

hawk99

Quote from: Nonmushrik on September 12, 2015, 01:18:55 PM

I provided evidence that "ya" is vocative, it means to address/invoke.


Peace Nonmushrik, what is your understanding of the word lament?


            8)
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden