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Polytheistic doctrine in the Quran, prophets invoking the dead!

Started by Nonmushrik, September 11, 2015, 11:33:44 AM

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Nonmushrik

Polytheistic doctrine in the Quran, prophets invoking the dead!

I am an atheist, not a Christian etc...

The Quran claims you should only invoke Allah ("YA Allah"), yet at the same time this "allah" endorses polytheist prophets who invoke the dead!

Salih invoking the dead after his nation had been destroyed:

[Yusufali 7:77] Then they ham-strung the she camel, and insolently defied the order of their Lord, saying: ?O Salih! bring about thy threats, if thou art a messenger (of Allah)!?

[Yusufali 7:78] So the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes in the morning!

[Yusufali 7:79] So Salih left them, saying: ?O my people! I did indeed convey to you the message for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but ye love not good counsellors!?

Notice 7:79, Salih is addressing the dead in the vocative "YA qawmi".

What in the world is this man Salih doing invoking and speaking to the dead, telling them he conveyed the message from Allah?

Polytheist prophet 2, Shuaib invoking the dead after his nation had been destroyed:

[Yusufali 7:91] But the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning!

[Yusufali 7:92] The men who reject Shu?aib became as if they had never been in the homes where they had flourished: the men who rejected Shu?aib ? it was they who were ruined!

[Yusufali 7:93] So Shu?aib left them, saying:?O my people! I did indeed convey to you the messages for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but how shall I lament over a people who refuse to believe!?

Note again, "YA qawmi", why in the world is this man addressing the dead?

In conclusion, the Quran endorses polytheism, invoking the dead. No wonder certain Muslims around the world say "YA rasulallah, YA Ali, assalamu alaika ayyuhan nabiyyu etc..."

To Quran alone Muslims who reject the Sunni tashahhud "assalamu alaika ayyuhan nabiyyu", which is clear polytheism. Now you have evidence that this practice is in the Quran and endorsed.

عوني

QuoteI am an atheist, not a Christian etc...

Well that was quick


huruf

Man you are splitting hairs. Who is invoking the dead? Nobody is invoking the dead. Asking what from them?

"Polytheists prophets who invoke the dead..."

If you have to resort to these childish games to find fault with Qur'an you must be very desperate.

So if i address my mother I am also a polytheist.

Or if I address you I am also a polytheist? Why do you address us? YOu are polytheist.

Salaam

Nonmushrik

Hi huruf,

If you invoke your mother while she's alive, no your not a polytheist.

If you invoke her when she's not alive, then you are a polytheist.

The verses are in context of DEAD people, not while alive.

The person has to be able to hear you, not that you invoke your mother from your house while she might be in another country, this is polytheism.

good logic

Peace Nonmushrik.

I am afraid ,again, it is a lack of understanding the context and the message.

Salih, Shuaib...etc are not addressing anybody. They know their people have  gone,never to return.
They are making a statement of fact to serve as a lesson to you,me and future generations that they are not to blame, their people take all the blame for refusing to listen and obey!

If my father,who is no longer ,  disobeyed GOD  and I say" Oh my father you have been warned,but did not listen". Am I invoking  the dead?

Of course not, I am just making a point/a statement of fact to serve as a warning to other living fathers not to disobey GOD.

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Nonmushrik

Hi good logic, "YA" is the vocative in the quranic arabic.

Both shuaib and salih are standing in the presence of mass corpses, saying "YA qawmi"

Yes, you would be a polytheist saying YA to anyone who is not alive.

Do you believe shias are polytheist for example when they say YA ali?

good logic

Peace Nonmushrik.

First, this is an assumption:

Both shuaib and salih are standing in the presence of mass corpses, saying "YA qawmi"

You are assuming this, Qoran does not say they are standing in the presence of mass corpses!

Second, I have given you an example and I used "Ya" -Oh my father"....  It is about my father ,not  in the presence of my father who is no longer.

Salih,Shuaib... are speaking about their "Quawm"  not  in the presence of their "Quawm".

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

huruf

Quote from: Nonmushrik on September 11, 2015, 01:49:01 PM
Hi huruf,

If you invoke your mother while she's alive, no your not a polytheist.

If you invoke her when she's not alive, then you are a polytheist.

The verses are in context of DEAD people, not while alive.

The person has to be able to hear you, not that you invoke your mother from your house while she might be in another country, this is polytheism.

?How can you say that naybody who addresses anything or anybody who is not alive is a polytheist? You say that not God says that. You invent your own rules and assumptions. You are not speaking on behalf of God. You are a mushrik who takes his words as if they were God's words.

Salam

Nonmushrik

Hi good logic.

Im not assuming anything, I'm reading the verses in context.

They both invoke/address the dead AFTER the nation is destroyed, there would have been at least 1 million dead corpses lying around this crumbled city.

I'm not saying there were that many, it may have only been 1 thousand.

Your example I understood, if you invoke somebody who's not alive with the vocative YA, this is polytheism.

Nonmushrik

Hi huruf,

It seems you agree with me at least that invoking the dead is explicit in the Quran.

We disagree about whether this is polytheism.