Author Topic: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA  (Read 14858 times)

BornAgain

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2015, 07:15:12 PM »
If promoting inequality and discrimination based on solely a sexual preference is part of your faith I will keep calling you people for what you are.  Oppressors.  The definition of marriage is not changed by homosexual marriage.  The meaning of marriage is still the same: a bond for life with a partner witnessed by God.

Incest and paedophelia are explicitly forbidden in Quran.  Homosexuality is not. 

Peace

Oh, please. Stop with the name calling.

I don't think you bother reading my post. I have no hatred against homosexuals and I will let God judge. I do not know what burden homosexuals carry, and I am not judgmental towards them.

My *personal* stance is that I don't agree with homosexual marriage - but I have NEVER campaigned against homosexual marriage. I only offer this opinion when asked. You are the one being judgmental here.
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FreedomStands

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2015, 07:19:07 PM »
Oh, please. Stop with the name calling.

I don't think you bother reading my post. I have no hatred against homosexuals and I will let God judge. I do not know what burden homosexuals carry, and I am not judgmental towards them.

My *personal* stance is that I don't agree with homosexual marriage - but I have NEVER campaigned against homosexual marriage. I only offer this opinion when asked. You are the one being judgmental here.

I got annoyed more I think when he took offense to something that had nothing to do with him at all.
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JavaLatte

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2015, 07:23:45 PM »
Agree with these. Very good points.

My personal belief is that the *act* of homosexuality is not compatible with the Qur'an. Having homosexual tendency is not a sin, unless acted upon

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Regarding homosexual 'marriage', I would much prefer that it is called 'civil union' and not marriage. I have to accept that homosexuality exists and I can do nothing to change it.

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people need to stop crying 'homophobia!' towards people who do not approve of homosexual marriage

Yea, what if perhaps that's also a kind of phobia or a phobia symptom?

Whether they fear of people like us?  Hmm... maybe there's "homophobe-phobia"?  ^___^
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huruf

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2015, 07:26:15 PM »
I can't see how considering marriage only when the marrying are of different sex is discriminating x-sexuals (hetero or homo or whatever), whatever homo or hetero may be. Nobody prevents any x-sexuals from marrying. Marrying by definition is of two people of different sex, their sexual likes or dislikes is exclusvely their business. But if they do not want to marry but have sex with somebody of the same sex, I can't see what can prevent them from doing so. On the other hand permitting people to"marry" people of the same sex exclusively for homosexuals, seems discriminatory to other people who would want also to contract a relationship for life but are not keen on having sex with somebody of their own sex or may be with nobody at all.

Salaam

FreedomStands

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2015, 07:26:56 PM »
Please point out where I'm being illogical. I'm illogical for not believing the story of Lot is about homosexual rape while there is not even a hint towards anything sexual in the quranic text?  You can disapprove of equal LBGT rights all you want, I don't even care about that part.  It's where you attribute such rules to God that angers me.

Just looking at animal and plant life should tell you a God did not design a world in which heterosexuality is the only format.  In nature we see androgyny, hermaphrodites, unisexualism etc etc...

I think the burden is upon you and others here to prove the story of Lot has even ONE word used in another occurrence related to sexuality.

Peace

What are you getting angered about and what are you accusing me of, "applying rules" I didn't do anything of the sort. I don't know if they were homosexuals or not, but that is how the Jews have understood it for a long time too and the Qur'an didn't correct them much or clarify to them or us on this matter, I never applied any rules. MAN DO I GET ANGRY WHEN PEOPLE FALSELY ACCUSE ME OF STUFF, SO MAYBE REFRAIN.
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Man of Faith

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2015, 11:16:57 PM »
Quote
MAN DO I GET ANGRY WHEN PEOPLE FALSELY ACCUSE ME OF STUFF, SO MAYBE REFRAIN.

Chill out. People accuse me of a bit of this and that for bringing onto them the truth, saying I do interpretation acrobatics and interpret according to my "whims and desires".

Anger is negative, we should not be angry at all. It lures forth the beast in us (shaytaan).
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reel

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2015, 02:23:10 AM »
It doesn't bother me, for my life is not affected by it. I am still a bit concerned though. You see we get some tax benefits for being married. It is possible for straight people to do fake same sex marriage for this same benefit. But again, this is like stealing right from the thief ;D. We all know where our tax money goes. And of course, it would not be as big as the amount of tax the corporations avoid giving by taking advantage of our tax law loopholes.
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Reee

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2015, 02:56:00 AM »
Since Lut did not live at the same time when the Qur'an was revealed, then how do we know for sure that homosexuality ever done on the earth before the time of Lut?
So please tell me when Lut lived, and we can see if we find some traces of homosexuality in that era.

Yes, the verses talk about sex (in my understanding), but not about sex of any man with any other man, but about transgression as such. What gave me some insight was the story of Onan in the bible: People tend to think the story speaks about masturbation. However, is speaks about not fulfilling one's duty. Onan does not do what he does out of desire, but because he does not begrudge his dead brother the offspring he (the brother) should get out of the sprem of Onan. This is why he prefers to let that sperm fall on the ground.
So in the case of Lut, you also have to look at the intention which is not love for the messengers (or any men) but lust for transgression.

I can't see how considering marriage only when the marrying are of different sex is discriminating x-sexuals (hetero or homo or whatever), whatever homo or hetero may be. Nobody prevents any x-sexuals from marrying. Marrying by definition is of two people of different sex, their sexual likes or dislikes is exclusvely their business. But if they do not want to marry but have sex with somebody of the same sex, I can't see what can prevent them from doing so. On the other hand permitting people to"marry" people of the same sex exclusively for homosexuals, seems discriminatory to other people who would want also to contract a relationship for life but are not keen on having sex with somebody of their own sex or may be with nobody at all.

I don't really understand your point. The current definition of marriage is strongly connected to sex. You can see this when the foreigners police searches for fictious marriage when immigrants are involved: they ask intimate questions about the sexual life in order to find out if the two have sex or not. My proposition was to change this, but this is not the current state.
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JavaLatte

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #88 on: July 12, 2015, 05:59:10 AM »
So please tell me when Lut lived, and we can see if we find some traces of homosexuality in that era.

When Lut lived?  Of course I don't know.

However, I'm quite sure that most likely he did not live at the same time with the last prophet.

What I do not understand is, why there seems to be an opinion that "the first case of homosexuality" occurred before the time of prophet Lut. How do they know about that?

And, I also don't understand what's your point for bringing the story of Onan. I don't mix between the Qur'an and the Bible.
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huruf

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Re: Recent Legalization of Homosexual Marriage in USA
« Reply #89 on: July 12, 2015, 06:15:01 AM »
So please tell me when Lut lived, and we can see if we find some traces of homosexuality in that era.

Yes, the verses talk about sex (in my understanding), but not about sex of any man with any other man, but about transgression as such. What gave me some insight was the story of Onan in the bible: People tend to think the story speaks about masturbation. However, is speaks about not fulfilling one's duty. Onan does not do what he does out of desire, but because he does not begrudge his dead brother the offspring he (the brother) should get out of the sprem of Onan. This is why he prefers to let that sperm fall on the ground.
So in the case of Lut, you also have to look at the intention which is not love for the messengers (or any men) but lust for transgression.

I don't really understand your point. The current definition of marriage is strongly connected to sex. You can see this when the foreigners police searches for fictious marriage when immigrants are involved: they ask intimate questions about the sexual life in order to find out if the two have sex or not. My proposition was to change this, but this is not the current state.


Marriage is connected to sex in so far as it is the basis for procreation. If there were no procreation who would care what people do with his or her sex or why should it be of interest to anyone? Making love,like going to the toilet is an intimate act not a social act. So it may have meaning in di intimate sxphere but it is not meant to be an exhibition nor to be a matter of public import.

On the other hand if the question is about rights on property or charing other advantages, why should "sex" be a condition for it.

In fact in countries there are already life contraact or cohabitation contracts which anybody can contract. Why should making love or sex or whatever be a condition for that. The reason why one wants to "share life" is for those interested to have not for society to impose.

Salaam