28 september 2015 versus 20 september 617

[GODsubmitter]

As Einstein said, the sublime truth should be both elegant and beautiful...

I have a tendency to accept explanations of truth that are simple and graceful.

Thank you for this elaborate study which FEELS right...

Peace

[noshirk]

Salaam Hannibal

1-Etymology
equi in equi noxium is to says that length of day is "equi" to length of night
there is no problem in arabic to say lenght of day qadrouhou length of night

i see no verse where decree can be took as certainly good translation
An each measure, we try to make the measured thing equivalent (qadrouhou) the measurin thing.

2-First month
the problem is to determine in which mount counting begin
12-49 link aam to an agricultural cycle. and more precisely to grapevine cycle since press (aasara) is used just before (12-36) for wine context.
12-49 indicates that this cycle end with "wine production"  (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_growth_cycle_of_grapevines)

so, the more logical is to say that quranic aam begins in spring. That is were we have to put mont 1

2-197 says that Hajj occurs in known Ashor. So 2-197 is not saying that before they were wrong here.
the only thing that seems to be contested by quran is the nassiya wich is probably  "forgetting" of the 11 residual days between solar and lunar year

torah seems clear that first month is in spring (see exodus 12:2, 14-18, numbers 28-16 and leviticus 23-5)

please note also that quite all calendar begins in spring equinox (jew, zoroaster, hindi and even firsts romans calendars)

3-Ashor Halram
if we resume, we have 4 ashor haram in the 12 countable ashor in the year. (9-36). Hajj occurs in the 4 according 2-197.

in 28-27, hijaj (plural of hajj) is used to indicate unit of time. (8 hijajs or 10 hijaj)
so, as unit should not change to bo a good unit, it seems likely to say that a hajj unit of time is quarter.

so ashor haram are around the two equinox and two solistices.




Peace

[huruf]

By mere considerations of practicality and simplicty I would tend to favour this equinox fixing of ramadan. That would solve certainly many of the problems posed by present understanding of the fast, and though for some people the fast becomes some kind of a big exploit with the corresponding "merit" for the long fast hours, I have always wondered whether that is God's purpose, to make us feel that we must do the exploit. The Qur'an calls to balance, I would say that as far as time measure is concerned, the balance is reached at equinoxes, obviously. That would be the fixing I would be more satisfied with in terms of reason and feeling.

Another thing would be the number of days, but I suppose that would deserve another thread. Howeve rI would like to read noshirk's view, since he seems to have studied the matter so thoroughly.

As to the qadr  part, I also tend to agree. Qadr, stems from what I would deem "capacity", which is a measure and related to power because capacity is where we can or we cannot with respect to something. In this sense white related to the mizan, the balance which is fundamental in God's creation and which should rule our behaviour. In a way I could understand that leilat al qdr is when we reach the balance, the inner and outer balance with God's power and ourselves, where we integrate.

Salaam

[Hannibal]

Salaam All

1-Etymology
equi in equi noxium is to says that length of day is "equi" to length of night
there is no problem in arabic to say lenght of day qadrouhou length of night

i see no verse where decree can be took as certainly good translation
An each measure, we try to make the measured thing equivalent (qadrouhou) the measurin thing.

After a closer look to the forms or "morphological patterns"  of the meaning I have given my past post :
- decree = قدّر has the form of فعّل
- restrict  = قَدِرَ has the form of فَعِلَ
- measure = has the form of قَدَرْ which is the same form used for the night of  قَدَرْ

As you said, when measuring we use something equivalent
Point Taken.

2-First month
the problem is to determine in which mount counting begin
12-49 link aam to an agricultural cycle. and more precisely to grapevine cycle since press (aasara) is used just before (12-36) for wine context.
12-49 indicates that this cycle end with "wine production"  (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_growth_cycle_of_grapevines)

so, the more logical is to say that quranic aam begins in spring. That is where we have to put mont 1

2-197 says that Hajj occurs in known Ashor. So 2-197 is not saying that before they were wrong here.
the only thing that seems to be contested by quran is the nassiya which is probably  "forgetting" of the 11 residual days between solar and lunar year

torah seems clear that first month is in spring (see exodus 12:2, 14-18, numbers 28-16 and leviticus 23-5)

please note also that quite all calendar begins in spring equinox (jew, zoroaster, hindi and even firsts romans calendars)

About the annual growth cycle of grapevines, it can surely be seen as a hint

The fact that the older calendars all started at spring is a stronger proof for me since the quran was sent to confirm what had already been said in the other holy books and to correct them when needed (5:48) which is the case with the "nassiya" you mentioned (9:37)

3-Ashor Alharam
if we resume, we have 4 ashor haram in the 12 countable ashor in the year. (9-36). Hajj occurs in the 4 according 2-197.

in 28-27, hijaj (plural of hajj) is used to indicate unit of time. (8 hijajs or 10 hijaj)
so, as unit should not change to be a good unit, it seems likely to say that a hajj unit of time is quarter.

so ashor haram are around the two equinox and two solstices.

For this part, i need to study the quran further in order to answer a few personal questions such as :
- Does the Quran mention that the Ashor Alharam are consecutive ?
- Does the Quran say that Ramadan is one of the Ashor Alharam ?
- If so, how to do the Hajj in Ramadan ? (the double fasting issue)

May Allah guide us all
سلام

[theNabster]

Peace noshirk, all

some extra distinctions on Qadar:

Another definition of Qadar, from memory is Fate, as in "Belief in Qadha and Qadar, its good and its evil", which the Sunnis take as article of faith.

القضاء و القدر

Edict and Fate or Decision and Fate?

Actually Scholars are confused about the meanings and some do not distinguish between Qadha and Qadar...

In Arabic, a Qadhi is an official Judge, so he decides matters, when he decides them, they get qadar, i.e. get implemented (fate, result).

[noshirk]

Another thing would be the number of days, but I suppose that would deserve another thread. Howeve rI would like to read noshirk's view, since he seems to have studied the matter so thoroughly.

Salaam Huruf
here what you asked for.
it is of course my understanding.
peace

Salaam All

I have to do some remarks concerning what i have read here

1- Meaning of Ramadhan

    الراء والميم والضاد أصلٌ مطَّرِدٌ يدلُّ على حِدّةٍ في شيء مِن حرٍّ وغيره. فالرَّمَض: حَرُّ الحجارةِ من شِدّة حَرّ الشمس.
    رمض (مقاييس اللغة)

    
والرَّمَضِيُّ، محركةً، من السحابِ والمَطَرِ: ما كان في آخر الصَّيْفِ وأوَّلِ الخَريفِ.
    الرَّمَضُ (القاموس المحيط)

    والرَّمَضِيُّ من السحاب والمطر: ما كان في آخر القَيْظِ وأَوّلِ الخَرِيف، فالسحابُ رَمَضِيٌّ والمطر رَمَضِيٌّ، وإِنما سمي رَمَضِيّاً لأِنه يدرك سُخونة الشمس وحرّها.
    والرَّمَضُ المطر يأْتي قُبُلَ الخريف فيجد الأَرض حارّة محترقة
    رمض (لسان العرب)

    
وشهرُ رَمضانَ يجمع على رَمَضاناتٍ وأَرْمِضاءَ، يقال: إنَّهم لما نقلوا أسماء الشهور عن اللغة القديمة سمَّوها بالأزمنة التي وقعتْ فيها، فوافق هذا الشهر أيام رَمْضِ الحرِّ، فسمِّي بذلك.
    رمض (الصّحّاح في اللغة)

Well, we have two possible meanings for ramadhan.  One is the "scorching heat" and other is filrs cloud/rain after heat.
Ramadan in spetember fit with the second one.

2- Ripes dates

according to this link (http://www.eurobroker.fr/dattes/) , harvest of date is between october and december.t
i verified information with specialists in north africa. they say harvest is october and november.

if we consider the ripe indication of quran, we are more near december
and 9 month before, we are near equinox (leilatou el qadr) of march.

we have also another argument (that can be considered as week).
introduction of Gospel of luke is interesting. It give an information confirmed by quran that i found nowhere else:

Luke 1-20:
20 And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time."

this is the sign given to Zachariah.
and this sign (Zachariah could not speak) is confirmed in two verses

3:41 He said: ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said: ?Your sign is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and remember your Lord greatly, and glorify at dusk and dawn.?
19:10 He said: ?My Lord, make for me a sign.? He said: ?Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights consecutively.?

this part of gospel, enlighted by quran, indicates also that:
Luke Chapter 1
26 In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,
27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

Thus, we would have two "angels" descent (then two leylatou el qadr) seperated by six months.

Now, readers have to note that there is clear contradiction in quran for verses 19-10 and 3-41 i have mentionned.
It seems that Allah dont know that the sign (not be able to speak) is for three nights or three days.
The only way to remove the contradiction is to consider that Zachariah was fasting from speaking because: fasting is:
19:26 ?So eat and drink and be content. If you see any human being, then say: ?I have vowed  A SAUM for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.??


So, seems that we found a prophet making saoum of three days in september.

3-is islam a  new religion ?

i find comfortable to find similarty between quran and older books.
some other understandings leads quite to the conclusion that islam is a new religion

4-What to do in ashor haram ?
this is a serious problem whether if and if not we consider Ramadan one of them.

I have and obstacle to enter is such complicated discussion since i have difficulties in english language
however, il will summarize my opinion.

Siyyam is spiritural retreat. as 2-185 says:
....then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in MASAJID...
so devotion is masajid (whatever is) are required during day.

Saum is for thre days= length in with full moon appears full.

Saum is individual and occurs in ramadhan

Hajj is collective. Hajj is a collective feast during 3 days.
Hajj has two objectives. Nourish soul and body of poors.
So to give food  (safa=livestck) and drinks (marwa).
and to give spiritual food by teachnings and debate.

3 kinds of particpants:
- Hojjajs (speakers/ debators) who come with arguments (hojajs)
- Those making Omra (simple Listeners). They come to learn and hace to make saoum (no speak during lessons)
- thos who assist for commercial purposes (9-19).


so hajj occurs 4 times a year, around equinoxes and solstices. But only ramadhan is for individual saoum.

Now, i will try to give a traduction to one of the more complicated verses in quran :2-196

this is complete verse 2-196
وَأَتِمُّواْ الْحَجَّ وَالْعُمْرَةَ لِلّهِ فَإِنْ أُحْصِرْتُمْ فَمَا اسْتَيْسَرَ مِنَ الْهَدْيِ وَلاَ تَحْلِقُواْ رُؤُوسَكُمْ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ الْهَدْيُ مَحِلَّهُ فَمَن كَانَ مِنكُم مَّرِيضاً أَوْ بِهِ أَذًى مِّن رَّأْسِهِ فَفِدْيَةٌ مِّن صِيَامٍ أَوْ صَدَقَةٍ أَوْ نُسُكٍ فَإِذَا أَمِنتُمْ فَمَن تَمَتَّعَ بِالْعُمْرَةِ إِلَى الْحَجِّ فَمَا اسْتَيْسَرَ مِنَ الْهَدْيِ فَمَن لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ ثَلاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ فِي الْحَجِّ وَسَبْعَةٍ إِذَا رَجَعْتُمْ تِلْكَ عَشَرَةٌ كَامِلَةٌ ذَلِكَ لِمَن لَّمْ يَكُنْ أَهْلُهُ حَاضِرِي الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ


this is monotheist translation
2:196 And conclude the Pilgrimage and the visit for God. But, if you are prevented, then provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an ailment to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a rite. But if you are secure, then whoever makes the visit, but decides to continue until the Pilgrimage, then he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten - this is for those whose family is not resident at the Restricted Temple. And  be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.


وَأَتِمُّواْ الْحَجَّ وَالْعُمْرَةَ لِلّهِ فَإِنْ أُحْصِرْتُمْ فَمَا اسْتَيْسَرَ مِنَ الْهَدْيِ
and accomplish Hajj and Omra but if you are prevented, then try to obtain what is possible of guidance.

Hady is reffering to teachings of words of Allah.

وَلاَ تَحْلِقُواْ رُؤُوسَكُمْ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ الْهَدْيُ مَحِلَّهُ
don't raise your heads until the lessons reach his target (that is the mind)

فَمَن كَانَ مِنكُم مَّرِيضاً أَوْ بِهِ أَذًى مِّن رَّأْسِهِ فَفِدْيَةٌ مِّن صِيَامٍ أَوْ صَدَقَةٍ أَوْ نُسُكٍ
Whoever of you is ill or has an ailment to his head, then he may redeem by Saoum (spiritual retreat/individual study) or giving a charity or a Nosk (something that make you more nearby to god)


فَإِذَا أَمِنتُمْ فَمَن تَمَتَّعَ بِالْعُمْرَةِ إِلَى الْحَجِّ فَمَا اسْتَيْسَرَ مِنَ الْهَدْيِ
amana is same rrot as moomin and no relation with security. Aim of Hajj is to give amana (that is teaching of god) to faithfull carriers of the message.
so verse is saying to who come to learn (making omra) to search for residual teachings (had'y) after the "official courses".

فَمَن لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ ثَلاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ فِي الْحَجِّ وَسَبْعَةٍ إِذَا رَجَعْتُمْ تِلْكَ عَشَرَةٌ كَامِلَةٌ
and if there is no possibilty for residual teaching then make a spiritual retreat for 7 days when returning home.
I suppose  this to assimilate all what have been stuided during Hajj.
So, if ramadan is only three days (please note that the there days mention), the hajj periode is saoum three days for "listeners" + 7 personal revision days when returning home.


ذَلِكَ لِمَن لَّمْ يَكُنْ أَهْلُهُ حَاضِرِي الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ
this is for those whose family/people is not resident at Masjid Haram (the place wenhere lessons are given)
So 7 seven residual days of individual study are not required for "listeners making only omra"  whose family/people didnt assist lessons.
Why ?
simple because i suppose they have the duty to report to their people/family what that have heard in Hajj at their return.


وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ
and take prevention/refuge to Allah, and know that God is severe in retribution.


so, according to my understanding
Saoum/ramadan is required each year for 3 days.
Hajj is each quarter. it is forum/seminar with debators (hojjajs) and students (making omra) . 3 days official lessons (and saoum for listeners) + 7 days of individual study for students or report to absent people w ::)en returnning home.

and of course, Hajj can occurs also in ramadhan.


Peace

[Hannibal]

Peace all,

Here is an article (in French) that exposes the same ideas as brother noshirk but in a more detailed manner (for the arguments part) and with more mockery and sarcasm for the "translation parts"

http://nawaat.org/portail/2015/04/15/calendriers-et-fetes-religieuses-dans-le-coran/

I must say that my heart and mind are both on track with those explanations.
I'll be fasting 10 days starting 28th of September 2015.

May Allah guide us all
سلام

[FreedomStands]

Why ten days even? Why not 10 hours, or ten inhalations and exhalations?

[Hannibal]

Why ten days even? Why not 10 hours, or ten inhalations and exhalations?

سلام FreedomStands,

2.185 says that those who could not fast Ramadan, can fast an amount (عدّة) of other days (3 days or more)
usually عدّة means a small numbers of days = between 3 and 10

The meaning of a few days is also repeated in 1:184 (معدودات)

And is further confirmed in 1:203 God permit those in hurry during hajj to speed it up to 2 days instead of a few days (معدودات)

As to why 10 ?
I'm still studying the number of due days (between 3 and 10), until I'm sure i'll fast a complete 10 days.

May Allah guide us all
سلام

[FreedomStands]

سلام FreedomStands,

2.185 says that those who could not fast Ramadan, can fast an amount (عدّة) of other days (3 days or more)
usually عدّة means a small numbers of days = between 3 and 10

The meaning of a few days is also repeated in 1:184 (معدودات)

And is further confirmed in 1:203 God permit those in hurry during hajj to speed it up to 2 days instead of a few days (معدودات)

As to why 10 ?
I'm still studying the number of due days (between 3 and 10), until I'm sure i'll fast a complete 10 days.

May Allah guide us all
سلام

Do you have some medical problem?

O you who believe! fasting is prescribed for you, as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard (against evil). 2:183

2:184 Fast for a specified number of days, but if any one among you is ill or on a journey, let him fast the same number of days later. For those who can fast only with extreme difficulty, there is a way to compensatethe feeding of a needy person. But he who does good of his own accord shall be well rewarded; but to fast is better for you, if you only knew.

2:185 The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month, and whosoever of you is sick or on a journey, (let him fast the same) number of other days. Allah desireth for you ease; He desireth not hardship for you; and (He desireth) that ye should complete the period, and that ye should magnify Allah for having guided you, and that peradventure ye may be thankful.

2:186
AND IF My servants ask thee about Me - behold, I am near; I respond to the call of him who calls, whenever he calls unto Me: let them, then, respond unto Me, and believe in Me, so that they might follow the right way.

2:187 IT IS lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the [day's] fast: they are as a garment for you, and you are as a garment for them. God is aware that you would have deprived yourselves of this right, and so He has turned unto you in His mercy and removed this hardship from you. Now, then, you may lie with them skin to skin, and avail yourselves of that which God has ordained for you, and eat and drink until you can discern the white streak of dawn against the blackness of night, and then resume fasting until nightfall; but do not lie with them skin to skin when you are about to abide in meditation in houses of worship. These are the bounds set by God: do not, then, offend against them - [for] it is thus that God makes clear His messages unto mankind, so that they might remain conscious of Him.

33:35
VERILY, for all men and women who have surrendered themselves unto God, and all believing men and believing women, and all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves [before God], and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, and all men and women who remember God unceasingly: for [all of] them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward.

5:89
GOD will not take you to task for oaths which you may have uttered without thought, but He will take you to task for oaths which you have sworn in earnest. Thus, the breaking of an oath must be atoned for by feeding ten needy persons with more or less the same food as you are wont to give to your own families, or by clothing them, or by freeing a human being from bondage; and he who has not the wherewithal shall fast for three days [instead]. This shall be the atonement for your oaths whenever you have sworn [and broken them]. But be mindful of your oaths!' Thus God makes clear unto you His messages, so that you might have cause to be grateful.

5:95
O ye who believe! Kill not game while in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb. If any of you doth so intentionally, the compensation is an offering, brought to the Ka'ba, of a domestic animal equivalent to the one he killed, as adjudged by two just men among you; or by way of atonement, the feeding of the indigent; or its equivalent in fasts: that he may taste of the penalty of his deed. God forgives what is past: for repetition God will exact from him the penalty. For God is Exalted, and Lord of Retribution.


al-Baqarah 2:185
So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting,

______________

inu: It's called
inu: a NEW MOON
inu: CCause it's like a new moon is being
inu: Formed
foxy: then I dont even know what this 10 days thing is
inu: And then fills up and then wanes away
inu: So from one to the other is a MOON
inu: People have been
inu: Using this
inu: Terminology
inu: And measurement
inu: Since TIME IMMEMORIAL
foxy: saw a girl talking outside had pregnant belly and I went AHGH
foxy: some version of ugh
foxy: yeah
foxy: I cant even read
foxy: what they are writing
inu: Hahaha
foxy: its so long and weird and I don't know what they are saying
foxy: but they are all apparently
inu: Hahahahahahaha oh
foxy: deeply convinced
inu: That
inu: REMINDS ME
foxy: why not just FORGET ABOUT FASTING
inu: Of
inu: What they say about
inu: What YOU WRITE
inu: We're all BLOCKED
inu: From understanding
inu: Certain things a certain way
foxy: haha yeah totally I feel the same way
foxy: just like their eyes cross at my writing
foxy: my eyes cross at their writing
foxy: I can't even read it
foxy: I don't LIE and claim I read it though
inu: Haha, yeah
inu: That's kind of like why I never really
inu: Read much of the bible
inu: It's just
inu: Soooooo boring
inu: And long
inu: And has
inu: Dumb stuff in it
inu: Wrong things
inu: Glaringly
inu: BAd things
inu: But that would be fun at least
inu: If it was
inu: More Packed
inu: Action packed
inu: Or something
inu: Like if it was just all these funny violent injustices
inu: In a row
inu: That would be great
inu: But it has to be written in the most LONG BORING MANNER POSSIBLE
inu: With all this filler inbetween
inu: And nothing happening
foxy: Saum is for thre days= length in with full moon appears full.

Saum is individual and occurs in ramadhan

Hajj is collective. Hajj is a collective feast during 3 days.
Hajj has two objectives. Nourish soul and body of poors.
So to give food  (safa=livestck) and drinks (marwa).
and to give spiritual food by teachnings and debate.
foxy: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607570.msg369870#msg369870 see they make it so hard to read
foxy: quoting from freaking LUKE?
inu: Hahahahah WHAT?
inu: Hajj is a GROUP FEAST FOR THREE DAYS?
inu: Not a HAJJ?
inu: Not a pilgrimage to anywehre
inu: HAha
foxy: hahah
inu: HAha but yeah
inu: I guess
inu: There is
inu: Givingg meat to the poor
foxy: their religion is so weird and corrupt
foxy: just make stuff out of nowhere entirely
foxy: and claim there is some rationale
inu: Give spiritual food by teachings and debate
inu: Hahaha
inu: It's not even about that being such a bad idea
foxy: I'll give spiritual food by shoving donuts in your mouth
inu: But this systemy
inu: Making stuff up
inu: Crap
inu: As if that's being said there
foxy: haha yeah
inu: Hahahahaha
foxy: like
foxy: if you have an idea
foxy: just SAY IT
inu: SHoving doughnuts
foxy: why do you have to lie about the Qur'an
inu: SIDEWAYS
inu: So their tongue
inu: Goes through the hole
inu: Hahahaha quoting Luke
inu: As Einstein said, the sublime truth should be both elegant and beautiful...
inu: I have a tendency to accept explanations of truth that are simple and graceful.
inu: Thank you for this elaborate study which FEELS right...
inu: Peace
inu: Hahahahahahaha
foxy: hahahaha
inu: HAhaha I'm trying to read this out loud and laughing
foxy: hahahahaha
foxy: its extremely funny that way
inu: HAHAHA 2-197 is not saying before they were wrong here.
inu: Hahahaha TORAH seems clear that first month is in spring
inu: WHO CARES??!!
inu: HAhahaha HAJJ OCCURS IN THE 4
inu: in 28-27, hijaj (plural of hajj) is used to indicate unit of time. (8 hijajs or 10 hijaj)
inu: so, as unit should not change to bo a good unit, it seems likely to say that a hajj unit of time is quarter.
inu: HAHAHAH
inu: Haha practicality and simplicity?
inu: What about what the Qur'an says?
inu: Why does SIMPLE matter
inu: And what even is 'simple'?
inu: IS
inu: THIS CRAP
inu: REALLY MORE SIMPLE THAN
inu: SAYIN
inu: ONE MONTH A YEAR?
inu: CAUSE IT ACTUALLY SEEMS MORE COMPLICATED AND CONFUSING
inu: It kind of reminds me of OCCAM'S RAzOR
inu: Why is SIMPLICITY
inu: Desired?
inu: It doesn't have to be SIMPLE
inu: But AS IT HAPPENS
inu: YES IT IS PRETTY DAMN SIMPLE
inu: The Qur'an calls to balance, I would say that as far as time measure is concerned, the balance is reached at equinoxes, obviously. That would be the fixing I would be more satisfied with in terms of reason and feeling.
inu: HAhaha SHUT THE FUCK U
inu: Does the Qur'an CALL TO BALANCE?
inu: Where does it do that?
inu: Does it say we have to fast when the day is always this length
inu: Or blah blah
inu: That people in different
inu: LATITUDES
inu: Or whatevver
inu: MUST HAVE
inu: THE SAME FAST TIME
inu: DOIGN EQUAL EFFORT
inu: Does it say anything about FAIRNESS?
inu: IS THE WORLD
inu: FAIR?
inu: ALL THE SUDDEN
inu: This is the same balance shit you were talking about
inu: Ruth tendency
inu: To say it's the same or should be the same
inu: It involves even perhaps some OCD sort of desir
inu: e
inu: For
inu: Symmetry
inu: But the world is NOT
inu: Symmetrical
inu: It's not all orderly or balanced like this
inu: The world is
inu: The WORD IS
inu: Whatever the hell ALLAH SAYS
inu: Which doesn't have to beFAIR
inu: Or follow ANY RULES AT ALL
inu: Haha noshirk
inu: Nice name
inu: As to the qadr  part, I also tend to agree. Qadr, stems from what I would deem "capacity", which is a measure and related to power because capacity is where we can or we cannot with respect to something. In this sense white related to the mizan, the balance which is fundamental in God's creation and which should rule our behaviour. In a way I could understand that leilat al qdr is when we reach the
inu: balance, the inner and outer balance with God's power and ourselves, where we integrate.
inu: HAHAHAHAHA
inu: Trying to read this stuff out loud is really funny
inu: As you said, when measuring we use something equivalent
inu: Point Taken.
inu: HAHA
inu: They all talk so weird
inu: HAhahaha ten inhalations and exhalations
foxy: there is just no confusion, what is the problem
foxy: "obviously"
foxy: making me laugh lots with the fairness speech
foxy: the Qur'an clearly states things are UNFAIR because of ALLAH and even the NATURE OF THINGS at their VERY BASIC is UNFAIR because ALLAH is not EQUAL to you and it even makes a big fuss with the whole slave and master speech it gives
foxy: about how you wouldn't to your subordinates
foxy: consider them equals