Author Topic: Justice on the day of Judgement  (Read 1681 times)

OnlyOneGod

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Justice on the day of Judgement
« on: June 24, 2015, 03:22:00 PM »
Peace to everyone,

Since this is my first post on this website I will just give a brief background on myself, I was born into a regular sunni family. My parents were religious but not to an extreme. So I recited the Quran in arabic (never actually understanding it) in the same way that most sunnis do, prayed in arabic (without understanding it). But I reached a stage in my life where I decided that I needed to actually study Islam on my own, even though where I come from (Pakistan) most of us are taught from childhood to only ask the mullahs about what Islam is because supposedly thinking on our own and researching Islam can lead towards kuffar, unless there is a clergyman to guide us. Anyway, ignoring the prevalent mindset I did start to read the translations of the Quran and after some time came to the realization that the Islam of the Quran is quite different to the Islam of the Hadith imposers. To be honest, at that time I had no idea that there was such a terminology as 'Quran Only' or 'Quranite' etc (for the record I do not consider myself a 'Quranite' I consider myself a Muslim). I had issues with the fact that hadith were not actually penned down by the Prophet himself and were a later addition just like what the Christians and the Jews did to their message from God.

Anyway, so to cut the story short, now that I believe that Quran is the only guidance that Allah (swt) has left for us through our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). I need to ask other people who are more knowledgeable on the Quran on how Allah (swt) guides us regarding the day of judgment. Allah (swt) has said that there will be a final judgment and there will be the ultimate justice for our deeds on that day, this is mentioned throughout the Quran and I agree that justice should be done for wrong the deeds in this life.

What I am confused about is this, if there is only one life for every soul, and some souls live to be a 100 years and some die at childbirth or when they are pre-pubescent. How are the souls of the pre-pubescent judged in a just way by Allah (swt) when they have not even been put through the trial. We do not believe in multiple lives or reincarnation, so then how is it just for a pre-pubescent soul to be sent to heaven while a the soul of the 80-100 year old is put through the trials and tribulations of life and then may end up in hell.

Does Allah (swt) elaborate on this point in the Quran in any way? Allah (swt) says that he is the most just and the most merciful. How does justice apply to those souls that were never put through the trial? Please understand that I am not trying to be insensitive to the tragedy that the death of a child entails for the family, I can understand that the death of a child can be a trial for the parent and the family from Allah (swt) but what about the soul that resided within the child. How was that soul put through the trial of life on earth.

If anyone has any references from the Quran on this issue I would be most grateful.

Peace be on all of you.

FreedomStands

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2015, 03:31:35 PM »
Thank you for joining the forum, and feel free to explore my many posts found by clicking my name and looking through my posts.

The Qur'an says that the life and death of people is pre-determined and precise. So Allah creates some incidents where children are killed or die and will be judged accordingly by Allah, it is not "fair" in the sense of a video game or something where everyone is given an equal amount of time and the same exact events occurring in their lives. Everyone is given different lives, and varying hardships. The Qur'an says that Allah does not task people beyond there means (obviously, since they would die otherwise).

Allah freely creates particular and unique circumstances and stories and the judgment is left entirely to Allah, nothing is equal about it between the various stories. Some people Allah gives a life full of ease and wealth and others Allah gives a life full of troubles and hardships, and this given freely and not based on any merit of theirs but just the circumstances they were born into and given. A human being could never properly assess how to fairly categorize these things, and we can only hope that Allah does what is most favorable for us, but if Allah doesn't, there is no stopping Allah anyway.
Read these
Easy Religion in a Nutshell
http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-59014.html
This may answer many questions!
https://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-505254.html
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good logic

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2015, 03:42:29 PM »
Peace OnlyOneGod.
GOD s justice is fair in the hereafter :

7:46
A barrier separates them, while the "AARAAF* is occupied by people who recognize each side by their looks. They will call the dwellers of Paradise: "Peace be upon you." They did not enter (Paradise) through wishful thinking.
وَبَينَهُما حِجابٌ وَعَلَى الأَعرٰفِ رِجالٌ يَعرِفونَ كُلًّا بِسيمىٰهُم وَنادَوا أَصحٰبَ الجَنَّةِ أَن سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُم لَم يَدخُلوها وَهُم يَطمَعونَ
7:47
When they turn their eyes towards the dwellers of Hell, they will say, "Our Lord, do not put us with these wicked people."
وَإِذا صُرِفَت أَبصٰرُهُم تِلقاءَ أَصحٰبِ النّارِ قالوا رَبَّنا لا تَجعَلنا مَعَ القَومِ الظّٰلِمينَ
7:48
The dwellers of the "AARAAF" will call on people they recognize by their looks, saying, "Your great numbers did not avail you in any way, nor did your arrogance.
وَنادىٰ أَصحٰبُ الأَعرٰفِ رِجالًا يَعرِفونَهُم بِسيمىٰهُم قالوا ما أَغنىٰ عَنكُم جَمعُكُم وَما كُنتُم تَستَكبِرونَ
7:49
"Are those the people you swore that God will never touch them with mercy?" (The people in the "AARAAF" will then be told,) "Enter Paradise; you have nothing to fear, nor will you grieve."
أَهٰؤُلاءِ الَّذينَ أَقسَمتُم لا يَنالُهُمُ اللَّهُ بِرَحمَةٍ ادخُلُوا الجَنَّةَ لا خَوفٌ عَلَيكُم وَلا أَنتُم تَحزَنونَ


The people /children you are talking about in your post are the dwellers of the "AARAAF". They will not be judged if they did not have a trial.

GOD bless you.
Peace.
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OnlyOneGod

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2015, 03:45:03 PM »
Thank you for joining the forum, and feel free to explore my many posts found by clicking my name and looking through my posts.

The Qur'an says that the life and death of people is pre-determined and precise. So Allah creates some incidents where children are killed or die and will be judged accordingly by Allah, it is not "fair" in the sense of a video game or something where everyone is given an equal amount of time and the same exact events occurring in their lives. Everyone is given different lives, and varying hardships. The Qur'an says that Allah does not task people beyond there means (obviously, since they would die otherwise).

Allah freely creates particular and unique circumstances and stories and the judgment is left entirely to Allah, nothing is equal about it between the various stories. Some people Allah gives a life full of ease and wealth and others Allah gives a life full of troubles and hardships, and this given freely and not based on any merit of theirs but just the circumstances they were born into and given. A human being could never properly assess how to fairly categorize these things, and we can only hope that Allah does what is most favorable for us, but if Allah doesn't, there is no stopping Allah anyway.

I have no issue with people being born in different circumstances, they are ofcourse all judged based on what they were given in life and how they dealt with that i.e. a wealthy person should give more of his wealth a poor man should have more perseverance and belief in Allahs grace and mercy. But these are souls that are being tried and going through a trial where their faith is being tested.

A small child has no concept of faith, justice or even God, yet it is born with a soul. That soul will also be resurrected on the day of judgement. I'm simply asking whether we have some explanation in the Quran dealing with such situations.

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2015, 03:49:45 PM »
Peace OnlyOneGod.
GOD s justice is fair in the hereafter :

7:46
A barrier separates them, while the "AARAAF* is occupied by people who recognize each side by their looks. They will call the dwellers of Paradise: "Peace be upon you." They did not enter (Paradise) through wishful thinking.
وَبَينَهُما حِجابٌ وَعَلَى الأَعرٰفِ رِجالٌ يَعرِفونَ كُلًّا بِسيمىٰهُم وَنادَوا أَصحٰبَ الجَنَّةِ أَن سَلٰمٌ عَلَيكُم لَم يَدخُلوها وَهُم يَطمَعونَ
7:47
When they turn their eyes towards the dwellers of Hell, they will say, "Our Lord, do not put us with these wicked people."
وَإِذا صُرِفَت أَبصٰرُهُم تِلقاءَ أَصحٰبِ النّارِ قالوا رَبَّنا لا تَجعَلنا مَعَ القَومِ الظّٰلِمينَ
7:48
The dwellers of the "AARAAF" will call on people they recognize by their looks, saying, "Your great numbers did not avail you in any way, nor did your arrogance.
وَنادىٰ أَصحٰبُ الأَعرٰفِ رِجالًا يَعرِفونَهُم بِسيمىٰهُم قالوا ما أَغنىٰ عَنكُم جَمعُكُم وَما كُنتُم تَستَكبِرونَ
7:49
"Are those the people you swore that God will never touch them with mercy?" (The people in the "AARAAF" will then be told,) "Enter Paradise; you have nothing to fear, nor will you grieve."
أَهٰؤُلاءِ الَّذينَ أَقسَمتُم لا يَنالُهُمُ اللَّهُ بِرَحمَةٍ ادخُلُوا الجَنَّةَ لا خَوفٌ عَلَيكُم وَلا أَنتُم تَحزَنونَ


The people /children you are talking about in your post are the dwellers of the "AARAAF". They will not be judged if they did not have a trial.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thankyou for your answer. So do we have any explanation for who these dwellers of the "AARAAF" are and why they have not been through the trial in the same way that the rest of mankind is?

Peace.

FreedomStands

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2015, 03:55:16 PM »
I have no issue with people being born in different circumstances, they are ofcourse all judged based on what they were given in life and how they dealt with that i.e. a wealthy person should give more of his wealth a poor man should have more perseverance and belief in Allahs grace and mercy. But these are souls that are being tried and going through a trial where their faith is being tested.

A small child has no concept of faith, justice or even God, yet it is born with a soul. That soul will also be resurrected on the day of judgement. I'm simply asking whether we have some explanation in the Quran dealing with such situations.

We have examples of at least the little baby girl buried alive asking for what crime she was killed. I think they go to paradise, but that is just conjecture, as the Qur'an does not say anything regarding where the children and animals go even though it mentions them being brought back. The families are united in paradise who were good people, and I'd imagine the children and animals go to paradise as well.

There is no part of the Qur'an that I know of that specifies anything in this regard, but that they are innocent and that the innocent are not going to be put in trouble.

I don't think the people on the middle ground are the same as the children who were not tested. It seemed the middle ground people were those that didn't do much evil and didn't do much good or something, but lived full enough lives.

So I expect that the children will go to paradise, and in the case of good parents who lost their child they may be re-united.
Read these
Easy Religion in a Nutshell
http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-59014.html
This may answer many questions!
https://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-505254.html
Kindly email me: foxyfoxgames@gmail.com

good logic

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2015, 04:03:13 PM »
Peace OnlyOneGod.

GOD  tries us by one another. He assigns our souls at birth. He chooses what day and date each one of us is born. He chooses each generation old and new .We have no say in the matter. Everything on earth from plants,landscape ,animals and people are here for our trial. All of us are here to fulfil a purpose,those who oppress those who fight for justice and those who die young and oppressed.

It is all done with GOD s knowledge and wisdom. A knowledge we cannot possibly grasp.

Trusting GOD is the key. He is fair and just.He always does the right thing.

Just look at the animals,they are totally submissive and accept their fate. GOD made them that way,according to His knowledge.

Those who are oppressed or die young will have their reward with their Lord. He made them according to His knowledge of all the souls.


Accepting GOD s system is part of our own submission to Him.

"GOD will not be asked about what He does ,we will be asked about what we do."

GOD bless you.
Peace.
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https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2015, 04:05:55 PM »

I don't think the people on the middle ground are the same as the children who were not tested. It seemed the middle ground people were those that didn't do much evil and didn't do much good or something, but lived full enough lives.


That is also my thinking that the people in the middle ground may be those that although are not "Muslim" as per 'definition' but may be good people in the eyes of Allah (swt) and since he is the most just and the most merciful he may forgive their transgressions if they lived a good life. But of course Allah (swt) knows best. But I still can't get my mind around the fact that when Allah (swt) creates a human child, he gives the child a rooh and nafs, but then takes that rooh back without an actual trial period.

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2015, 04:14:56 PM »
Peace OnlyOneGod.

Accepting GOD s system is part of our own submission to Him.

"GOD will not be asked about what He does ,we will be asked about what we do."

GOD bless you.
Peace.

I agree That is GODs system and it is up to him to do as he pleases. But then GOD also commands us to think and to ponder on his revelations. This is what my mind compels me to ponder on while keeping in view the fact that GOD is the MOST just. May Allah (swt) guide us all.

FreedomStands

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Re: Justice on the day of Judgement
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2015, 04:16:29 PM »
Peace OnlyOneGod.

GOD  tries us by one another. He assigns our souls at birth. He chooses what day and date each one of us is born. He chooses each generation old and new .We have no say in the matter. Everything on earth from plants,landscape ,animals and people are here for our trial. All of us are here to fulfil a purpose,those who oppress those who fight for justice and those who die young and oppressed.

It is all done with GOD s knowledge and wisdom. A knowledge we cannot possibly grasp.

Trusting GOD is the key. He is fair and just.He always does the right thing.

Just look at the animals,they are totally submissive and accept their fate. GOD made them that way,according to His knowledge.

Those who are oppressed or die young will have their reward with their Lord. He made them according to His knowledge of all the souls.


Accepting GOD s system is part of our own submission to Him.

"GOD will not be asked about what He does ,we will be asked about what we do."

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Good one!
Read these
Easy Religion in a Nutshell
http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-59014.html
This may answer many questions!
https://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-505254.html
Kindly email me: foxyfoxgames@gmail.com