Author Topic: The Quranic Salat by brother hamza abdul malik a former sunni for 46 years!  (Read 4603 times)

Nonmushrik

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https://youtube.com/watch?v=k2kT8FkcgnI

Brother hamza abdul malik

After clear ayahs, there is no ritual praying in the Quran, people's alleged salat nowadays is all KUFR!

Man of Faith

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Yeah, kufr (fabrication). You have my work on the matter in a thread called 'Nearness and Guidance' including an astonishing revelation about salateh.

However, Musalla can refer to a gathering in a temple (church, mosque, synagogue etc). It is only that it refers to guiding/teaching/giving perception in there and not a ritual. Sectarian confusion probably emerged when people begun to equal musalla with prayer and eventually it turned into being synonymous with prayer. The Christian word 'Divine Service' is slightly more accurate. Communion is a really good word, check a dictionary.

But one should seriously draw a distinction between to pray (du'a) and a guiding session (musalla). If a cleric has a lecture in a temple then he holds a musalla and the participants gain salateh (guidance/perception). Should he begin to pray then it is du'a, even if it is during the musalla. It is so obvious.

One has a clear example concerning the alleged "praying birds" in Quran. Do they pray in midair or are they following each other in formation up to a leading bird and the leading bird is following the perception of GOD? Musalla (which gives salat) is following the same principle as the parable, i.e. someone is guiding the other.

And a blind man cannot lead another blind man. (Old parable)

Salaam
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Nonmushrik

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MUSALLAN is not temple, mosque or any other rock structured understanding
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 08:22:29 AM »
Abraham is a MUSALLAN, please check Surah 2:125,

corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=125#(2:125:1)

Surely your not suggesting Abraham is a church, mosque etc...?

Not even Sunni kafirs say this, they say it's his place of prayer, and mushriks today also call there prayer mat this same word too.

Nonmushrik

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Abraham is a Musallan: a man who has pledged his allegiance to THE GOD alone.


Man of Faith

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No. I do not claim that Abraham is a building nor did I say that musalla is one. I said that musalla refers to a lesson. It was a mindful lesson in his example. You can HOLD a musalla iN a church, mosque etc I said. You need to diminish the human fixation with the concrete.

If you read my post regarding it you would see what I suggested.

Salateh refers to guidance and musalla refers to such inspiration you gain from a narrative. The whole Quran and its information can be said being salat.

Salaam
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Man of Faith

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Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 125:
وَإِذْ جَعَلْنَا الْبَيْتَ مَثَابَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَأَمْنًا وَاتَّخِذُوا مِن مَّقَامِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ مُصَلًّى وَعَهِدْنَا إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ أَن طَهِّرَا بَيْتِيَ لِلطَّائِفِينَ وَالْعَاكِفِينَ وَالرُّكَّعِ السُّجُودِ

And We assigned the assembly a model for the spiritual and a vision and a way of life from the lesson of what Abraham established and we covenanted with Abraham and Ishmael to sanctify (or keep firm) the assembly for joiners and members and humbly submissive.

Disclaimer: Used translation source from Lane's Lexicon. Various words may hence be inaccurate, but I picked the most logical words to form a coherent translation.

امنا is translated above in an experimental way. The word is rather than what lexicons state a combination of a prefix alif + the root م ن ن, the same that من (common preposition) is taken from. It means something like 'Be Thereof (Like)' to realize yourself in something and why 'amin' has traditionally been used in prayers because you say something like "may it be so". Not sure if vision is equal to realization, but I saw no better choice. I hope you see what I meant in the translation.

And in this you see what musalla is.

Salaam
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Nonmushrik

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Musallan
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2015, 11:31:11 AM »
Peace, musallan which is a specific form of the word, only referring to the person who is establishing the salat. So a musallan is a person who is himself establishing salat, he's following the orders of THE GOD and carrying them out, hence musallan.

Guidance is not salat quranically speaking, we all know "hudan" and similar pronoun-citations to be guide/guided/guiding etc...

Your making new meanings out of this word musallan/salat and interpretating something which is not there.

Peace.

Man of Faith

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Huda means grace/blessing/gift. There is a misconception about it. You can even check classical Arabic dictionaries to see the word can have that connotation. And Arabic words do not have more than one basic meaning.

And no, I am not making new meanings. That a gathering where the faith is preached is called Musalla is quite widely known. It is only that the word salat has become synonymous with prayers which is not true.

Obviously, you are the Musalla agent if you are teaching people about faith. GOD/The Rabb or angels are often the agents as well, you can find passages where they are written to give lessons/perception to the prophet.

It is easy to accuse people you disagree with to make up meanings. But you can find this reasoning carrying weight and it is a project I have been working on for quite some time.

I really urge you to contemplate about the root's usage in the allegedly praying birds. Please also read up on ص ل و in a lexicon like Lane's where you can get an idea on what I wrote about.

Musalla is surely synonymous with communion. Is it about sharing knowledge/perception.

Salaam
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Wakas

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peace,

Quote
Peace, musallan which is a specific form of the word, only referring to the person who is establishing the salat. So a musallan is a person who is himself establishing salat, he's following the orders of THE GOD and carrying them out, hence musallan.

Can you provide a reference for the above?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Nonmushrik

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Musallan
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2015, 01:10:00 PM »
Peace wakas, according to you musallan is what exactly? Surah 2:125 as stated above, Abraham is a musallan, in Surah 70:22 al musalina is used, plural, people who establish salat.

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=70&verse=22

Prophet Abraham was not a mosque, church or any other false charge made against him, neither did he build polytheist pagan temples in mecca.

Wakas

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I note that in your reply here and in the other thread you never answered my questions. This suggests to me you are not here to discuss honestly and learn. I hope that this is not the case, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Here is a note from brother uq (forum member here):
Quote
?musallaa? is of the form ?mufa33al? which is the passive participle derived from Form II (fa33ala).

There are two meanings to ?sallaa?: 1. ?to pray, or, to perform salaah?, and 2. ?to give blessings.?

Now, neither of these two meanings can admit the form ?musallaa? as a passive participle because the first is intransitive and the second doesn?t take a direct object.

However, both these meanings do admit the form ?musallaa? as a ?noun of time or place?, which would give them the meanings of: 1. ?the time or place of salaah?, and 2. ?the time or place of giving/invoking blessings?.

In your translation, you seem to have rendered "musallan" as the singular of "musalleen" - evidence/reasoning?
Scroll down to part 7 here for the singular.

Even in your link to corpus, it separates the word forms. Perhaps you should consider why that is.


To understand my rendering of 2:125 you will have to read this article:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

2:125 And We made the shelter to be a place of reward/return/gathering for the people and a security. And take (to yourselves) from the stance/status of Abraham a time/place of blessing. And We entrusted to Abraham and Ishmael: "You shall purify My shelter for those who visit, and those devoting/residing, and the yielding/bowing, the acknowledging/submitting."

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Nonmushrik

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Surah 5:97 rendering of al bayt al haram
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2015, 04:42:31 AM »
Peace wakas

5:97, THE GOD has made the ankle (of animals) the sanction (in) the system an establishment for MANKIND...

Notice if you read the full context of passages from 5:94-97, this law being discussed about illegally killing animals is for mankind.


Man of Faith

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Otherwise albayt alharam may also refer to sanctified (approved of) assembly which sounds slightly more sensible.

Al-bayt refers to inhabitants of somewhere and I call them an assembly based on the context of Quran.

How is ankle of animals sensible in any way?

Salaam
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Nonmushrik

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Al bayt al haram
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2015, 06:48:10 AM »
Peace manoffaith

Al haram: I only accept sanction for this word and I completely reject this notion of sacred/holy being ascribed to this word, I'm not sure you feel the same way?

Qudus would be holy/sacred from the Quran.

I don't accept house/home for bayt, I'm sending you a link.

Man of Faith

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Salaam,

You are right. Only sanctified is true for haram. I do not think I wrote anything else.

The literal interpretation (letter by letter) for حرم (haram) is "Good Constitution Thereof" which correlates fairly well with sanctified. With easier words you can say it refers to "goodly/approved of".

Quds could be holy, but I think literally it refers to purity, i.e. ruh al-quds the pure spirit. Of course does holy imply something is totally pure. Spirit is by the way a slightly poor definition for 'ruh'. It is more like (abstract) force or something, an "attacher" or assembler.

The traditional "Holy Spirit" refers to what sustains life in the universe and makes it run like a self-sustaining platform. The Holy Spirit has caused the direction of evolution for example.

You are right that "bayat" does not refer to a building, but it does refer to a collective like an assembly.

Salaam
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