Author Topic: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)  (Read 8039 times)

hawk99

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2015, 03:34:24 PM »

Yes you are right. It could be nice to exam it well.


Peace NielsJacob, Thanks for replying to my post.

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Pathenocarpy in botany and horticulture means the virgin fruits; it is naturally or
artificially induced fruit production without the fertilization of ovules. The fruit
produced by parthenocarpy is seedless. Another biological mechanism
stenospermocarpy also produces seedless fruits, but here the seeds are aborted
while they are still small. In nature, parthenocarpy or stenospermocarpy occurs
as a mutation. If these conditions affect the flower, the plant cannot be able to
reproduce sexually but it might propagate by vegetative reproduction.



Some plants require pollination or stimulation for parthenocarpy. This is known
as stimulative parthenocarpy. Plants which do not require pollination or other
stimulation to produce by parthenocarpy is known as vegetative parthenocarpy.
Moving plants from one part of the world to another, it may lack pollinators so
parthenocarpic varieties are easier for cultivation. Some parthenocarpic plants
are developed by genetical modifications.



Pairs throughout creation

I think knowing the significance of pairs as per Quran which are revealed
in ayats 51:49, 13:3 and 36:36, contain knowledge which will bring us to the understanding
that as far as human perception is concerned, is a creation of pairs, opposites, similar
and dissimilar, balance and relative scale which ranges from one extreme to another. 
Therefore some questions have answers built into that very same question by just
acknowledging the opposite, relative scale etc.


God bless

                  :peace:
The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

amin

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2015, 08:48:43 PM »
Peace hawk99

  :)


Yes you are right. It could be nice to exam it well.
I saw some at Answering-Christanity but I didn?t found their explanation complete.

Did you see my last post:

What about this simple explanation:

There are no such thing as single fruit production.

On the tree there are always more than one fruit.
Not like for instant a carrot which isn?t a fruit and therefor appears alone.

If the production of fruit is limited to one its only due to human hand interference.

This explanation seems to simple but could be the case. (Please I need respond on this one)

If this a fact it could be really amassing.

Have you seen a single fruit on any plant?

I now truing to see if thats the case. So for I haven?t found any fruit that are produced alone.

God bless you too.

Salam Neil,

Thats a good explanation and fits well, shows the plurality or duality, indirectly showing that nothing created exists singular there's something to compare with.  duality or diversity is part of creation and the source is the only singularity.

NielsJacob

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2015, 12:11:02 AM »
Peace all.

Quote
indirectly showing that nothing created exists singular there's something to compare with.  duality or diversity is part of creation and the source is the only singularity.
  Nice formulation

There ain?t such thing as single fruit production.

Its really exiting for me if this can be the explanation.
So far I havn?t found any such fruit.

The Pineapple appears to be a single fruit form the plant. But: The pineapple ?fruit? is not really a fruit at all but is a mass of individual berries fused to the central stalk.  This is why the ?fruit? has leaves on top.  They are actually the continued growth of the stalk beyond where the berries are attached.http://faculty.ucc.edu/biology-ombrello/pow/pineapple.htm

But so far the claim stands: He made the fruits in pairs. And we read it as it stand with no interpreation.

If you have any example of a singular fruit. Then of course the teori will fall to the ground.

May God led us...

NielsJacob

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2015, 03:05:44 AM »
Peace All.

In my research I found:

A Poppy/Opium has a single fruit/capsule

And then again we can read about capsule:  In botany a capsule is a type of simple, dry fruit produced by many species of flowering plants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_(botany)

But is the capsule a fruit in the way its mentioned in Al Quran?

I don't know Arabic so, someone could please help here..

God Bless

NielsJacob

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2015, 09:23:45 AM »
Peace
here I go again.

What about this translation. If we cant say there are more than one of every fruit:

He gave all plants their male and female parts (N J Dawood (draft))

reel

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2015, 06:13:55 AM »


13:3 And it is He who spread the earth and placed therein firmly set mountains and rivers; and from all of the fruits He made therein two mates; He causes the night to cover the day. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.



I have been told by the biologist that inside a fruit there is a male and female. I am looking for the research paper to know whether it is confirmed.

Does anyone know how seeds form in fruits?
"I fear that nothing will lead me to hell more than ḥadīth"-Hadith collector: Shu'ba Ibn al-Ḥajjāj

runninglikezebras

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2015, 09:17:14 AM »
I think you should reconsider what mates can include.  Some examples from plant life:

The complexity of the morphology of flowers and its variation within populations has led to a rich terminology.

Androdioecious: having male flowers on some plants, bisexual ones on others.[6]
Androecious: having only male flowers (the male of a dioecious population); producing pollen but no seed.[16]
Androgynous: see bisexual.[6]
Androgynomonoecious: having male, female, and bisexual flowers on the same plant, also called trimonoecious.[16]
Andromonoecious: having both bisexual and male flowers on the same plant.[6]
Bisexual: each flower of each individual has both male and female structures, i.e. it combines both sexes in one structure.[6] Flowers of this kind are called perfect, having both stamens and carpels. Other terms used for this condition are androgynous, hermaphroditic, monoclinous and synoecious.
Dichogamous: having sexes developing at different times; producing pollen when the stigmas are not receptive,[6] either protandrous or protogynous. This promotes outcrossing by limiting self-pollination.[17] Some dichogamous plants have bisexual flowers, others have unisexual flowers.
Diclinous: see Unisexual.[6]
Dioecious: having either only male or only female flowers.[6] No individual plant of the population produces both pollen and ovules.[18] (From the Greek for "two households". See also the Wiktionary entry for dioecious.)
Gynodioecious: having hermaphrodite flowers and female flowers on separate plants.[19]
Gynoecious: having only female flowers (the female of a dioecious population); producing seed but not pollen.[citation needed]
Gynomonoecious: having both bisexual and female flowers on the same plant.[6]
Hermaphroditic: see bisexual.[6]
Imperfect: (of flowers) having some parts that are normally present not developed,[20] e.g. lacking stamens. See also Unisexual.
Monoclinous: see bisexual.[6]
Monoecious In the commoner narrow sense of the term, it refers to plants with unisexual flowers which occur on the same individual.[2] In the broad sense of the term, it also includes plants with bisexual flowers.[6] Individuals bearing separate flowers of both sexes at the same time are called simultaneously or synchronously monoecious.[citation needed] Individuals that bear flowers of one sex at one time are called consecutively monoecious.[citation needed] (From the Greek monos "single" + oikia "house". See also the Wiktionary entry for monoecious.)
Perfect: (of flowers) see bisexual.[6]
Polygamodioecious: mostly dioecious, but with either a few flowers of the opposite sex or a few bisexual flowers on the same plant.[2]
Polygamomonoecious: see polygamous.[6] Or, mostly monoecious, but also partly polygamous.[2]
Polygamous: having male, female, and bisexual flowers on the same plant.[6] Also called polygamomonoecious or trimonoecious.[21] Or, with bisexual and at least one of male and female flowers on the same plant.[2]
Protandrous: (of dichogamous plants) having male parts of flowers developed before female parts, e.g. having flowers that function first as male and then change to female or producing pollen before the stigmas of the same plant are receptive.[6] (Protoandrous is also used.)
Protogynous: (of dichogamous plants) having female parts of flowers developed before male parts, e.g. having flowers that function first as female and then change to male or producing pollen after the stigmas of the same plant are receptive.[6]
Subandroecious: having mostly male flowers, with a few female or bisexual flowers.[citation needed]
Subdioecious: having some individuals in otherwise dioecious populations with flowers that are not clearly male or female. The population produces normally male or female plants with unisexual flowers, but some plants may have bisexual flowers, some both male and female flowers, and others some combination thereof, such as female and bisexual flowers. The condition is thought to represent a transition between bisexuality and dioecy.[22][23]
Subgynoecious: having mostly female flowers, with a few male or bisexual flowers.[citation needed]

mclinkin94

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2020, 08:33:49 PM »
I am really sorry, I have been reading this post and I got so sad that people are making a problem about 13:3. I just have to discuss this here. Please forgive me for bringing back an old topic, but I NEED to address it because this thread had no closure!!

Quote
Same problem. 13:3 says "two pairs" meaning a total of 4. Are fruits always produced in fours?

Back to square one; this seems to be a serious contradiction in the quran.

Actually, it is not a contradiction, and in fact, it is a major miracle--if you understand the science behind plant development.

Let's start with:

[Quran 36:36] Exalted is He who created (in) pairs all things.

This is an example of the inferiority of the English translation compared to the original Arabic. This verse does not say "in" pairs all things. Rather, if you look at a word for word translation, it says "the pairs", not "in pairs". That is, Allah created "all the pairs" of the Earth. i.e He created all the existing pairs, so what.

kol=all

In arabic you can say "kol alazwaj or "alazwaj kollaha" interchangeably.

[Quran 51:49] And of all things We created two pairs...

In Arabic, (مِنْْ) “min“ could mean "some of"

Definitions:  from, some, some of .

Some of, of. Indicating a segment of; a portion of. In other words, "Some of all things we created pairs" in essence: "a part of all things are made into pairs".

[Quran 13:3] and from all of the fruits He made therein two mates

Same thing as above. A part of all the fruits have in them pairs. In other words: of all the fruits, there are pairs within them (fi-ha). This could be referring to some of the fruits with seeds which are diploid (have two sets/pairs of chromosomes, from the male and female components of the plant)

Believe it or not, this verse is a significant MIRACLE. It is something, the prophet Muhammad could not have known! Let me explain. This verse uses the terminology "zawjayni ith'nayni"--which is weird terminology. Zawjayni means "two"/"pair" and Ith'nayin also means "two". That means 4 in total! (2 pairs)! What???! That doesn't make any sense?!! Actually it does:

Double fertilization: "The launch of seed development in flowering plants (angiosperms) is initiated by the process of double fertilization: two male gametes (sperm cells) fuse with two female gametes (egg and central cell) to form the precursor cells of the two major seed components, the embryo and endosperm, respectively." From: https://doi.org/10.3389/fpls.2014.00452  

This is a peer reviewed scientific article, so cut the BS from those atheist/anti-Muslim websites that claim this Quranic verse is a contradiction because plants only have 1 sperm and 1 egg and that no plants have 2 pairs of sperm and eggs. WRONG THEY ARE!! Double fertilization happens in some fruits (not single fertilization, DOUBLE fertilization). I cannot believe the stupidity and ignorance of anti-muslim apologists and the BS they spew on their websites and forums!

Now, did 7th century Arabs have a concept of double fertilization? How did Muhammad (pbuh) know??
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It seems to be that Allah is appealing to 7th century Arabs' astonishment with duality/dualism of the world and is saying "you see that thing that you are astonished by?--Allah created it". Allah said this in such a way to appeal to 7th century Arabs' dispositions while not making it a contradiction for future generations. Allah may have wanted to make it sound like to the 7th century Arabs that he was talking about duality in the world (Quran must support 7th century belief by relating to their dispositions) AND the objective nature of reality that will be discovered through science). If Allah said "and everything that exists in the heaven and the Earth are made in pairs", that would be a clear scientific error, but notice how the Quran was careful to avoid this. It is only human interpretation that messes things up; It is only the English translators that mess things up.

mclinkin94

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2020, 09:57:41 PM »
The word فيها , which was used in Quran 13:3 means "in"

In other words, we see a "double marriage", "double mating", "double pairing"--double fertilization IN fruits!

Here is a good resource talking about how double fertilization evolved specifically in "FLOWERING PLANTS" (Angiosperms)--fruit IS an organ of flowering plants--fruit is produced by flowering plants.

https://bio.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Introductory_and_General_Biology/Book%3A_General_Biology_(Boundless)/32%3A_Plant_Reproductive_Development_and_Structure/32.2%3A_Pollination_and_Fertilization/32.2D%3A_Double_Fertilization_in_Plants

Houriya

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Re: The fruits He made in pairs. (13:3)
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2020, 10:05:34 PM »
Peace mclinkin94,

Welcome to the forum, thank you for your insights.