Why does the Quran and Bible describe the Sun as going around the Earth?

[Man of Faith]

Good elaboration, Zulf.

Salaam

[Student of Allah]

Shalom Aleikhem,

Hi All,

If you read the Quran and the Bible it quite clearly describes the Sun as going around the Earth. I can't see how the translations and words could mean anything else. Does anyone else agree with this?

Thanks

Unless the Qur'an explicitly mentions that the sun and the moon orbits the earth, there is still a way left for anyone who is willing to believe otherwise to believe otherwise. From what I understand, the verses in the Qur'an seem to be describing something an observer would have seen and noticed with naked eyes. I drew this picture for helping me illustrate this point:

Look at this picture and try to put yourself in the shoes of Randy (I named the guy Randy ). Now consider the following verses:

21:33   And He is the One who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.

So, the verse isn't saying anything Randy wouldn't have noticed on his own. Now consider this verse:

36:40   The sun is not required to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.

Just as Randy would have observed as you can see from that illustration above. ANYONE who simply observed what the sun and the moon does would have figured that much. On top of that, humanity was well aware of eclipses thousands of years before Muhammad was even born.


The point I am trying to make here is:

1. The Qur'an doesn't necessarily outright say that the sun and the moon are orbiting the earth.
2. The Qur'an doesn't say anything that a normal observer wouldn't have figured out on their own.


I think that the topic should have been discussed in the Science section of the Forum.


Peace
--------------- Student of Allah

[Zulf]

Despite that the sun and the moon aren't having orbits with centers at Earth, their apparent paths across the sky is according to a fixed pattern. The moon's orbit is centered at Earth, while the Sun's orbit is not, yet they both move in paths across the sky in a totally regular manner. So one could imagine that something is linking the Sun and the moon to Earth. However, it's not a geocentric model, rather it is simply the Rotation of Earth. The rotation itself gives EVERYTHING an apparent orbit around Earth.
The quran tell about the regularity, which is obvious to the naked eye. The quran is mentioning orbits (if that's what the word actually means) however doesn't specify the center of the orbits.

Peace

[Wakas]

It is unfortunate that some seemingly have not read the thread. Let me repeat:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607169.msg362187#msg362187

Specifically:

It also says the night cannot outstrip the day, which is interesting considering we know they both exist simultaneously on earth, the word here means one cannot get in front of the other, which again, fits.

Let me clarify it further:

the night cannot outstrip/forerun the daytime

Meaning the night cannot go in front of the daytime, thus there are only two possibilities of interpreting this:

1)
Since we know the pattern is:
etc .............. day / night / day / night / day / night...................... etc

It therefore depends on what your starting point of reference is, i.e. if you make "day" first, and "night" second, then it is true to say that night cannot go before day. HOWEVER, some might argue that requires an arbitrary starting point, i.e. choosing "day" as first.
Secondly, we know some days in certain months have long daytime / short night, and vice versa, long night and short daytime - thus one could say night is outstripping the daytime, e.g. in winter.


2) night and daytime MUST both exist simultaneously on earth, hence one cannot go in front of the other. There is no ifs and buts, or arbitrary choosing or debate. It is a fact that night cannot outstrip/forerun the daytime with this interpretation.
Secondly, since we know the region of Arabia gets a regular pattern of daytime/night cycles, meaning when they experience daytime this would mean elsewhere on earth experiences night. Ponder over what this tells you about the earth/sun.


YOU choose what is more reasonable: (1) or (2).

For me personally, I do not mind (1) but (2) seems more eloquent/precise/powerful. Further, if we consider the Classical Arabic meanings of FLK, and simple observations of sun/moon shape, we can reasonably deduce the earth is similar in shape. Thus, we have a spherical/round earth, wherein simultaneous night/daytime occur.

http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

Fa-Lam-Kaf = become round, anything circular, persist/persevere, ship, Ark, the place of the revolving of the stars, the celestial sphere, vault of heaven, firmament, surrounding spheres, sky, revolvement, circling, circuit, going to and fro, in a state of commotion, whirl of a spindle, one who goes round.

falak n.m. 21:33, 36:40

Dal-Ha-Waw (Dal-Ha-Alif) = To hurl, spread forth, expand, stretch out, cast away, extend, drive along.

daha vb. (1) perf. act. 79:30

[Zulf]

I like (2). Never thought of it that way.
Peace

[runninglikezebras]

I'm not sure why this thread is still going on.  Are those who are still active in it really so naive they think they can convince flat earth-believers with rational argumentation?  Yeah right