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Want to see a Jinn? Here is some information that might help!

Started by FreedomStands, January 06, 2015, 02:43:29 AM

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runninglikezebras

Quote from: FreedomStands on January 07, 2015, 10:02:59 AM
Why is that not considered superstitious though? Why isn't the idea of these "ethereal beings" not superstitious seeming to you (if it isn't)?

The Qur'an specifies "smokeless fire" as a description for some essence from which these things before humans were made, were made, while humans are said to be made of "mud" and also made of "water", both are not entirely true statements, but something is being referred to in them.


35:1
All praise is due to Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, the Maker of the angels, messengers flying on wings, two, and three, and four; He adds to creation what He pleases; surely Allah has power over all things.

Please view my earlier post in which I explain this to be a reference to lighter and heavier elements.  The smokeless fire being referred to in Quran is of course the early state of the universe after Big Bang, consisting of clouds of gas (hydrogen and helium).  By the effects of gravity these clouds formed into stars.
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Man of Faith

Yes, but all translations are interpretations. You supplied me with a translation.

Humans are also ethereal beings, but we are assigned to fleshly bodies, which are like a jail. However our soul is abstract and ethereal and once we live no more we free the spirit from the flesh (give up the spirit).

The angels can be assigned to bodies in disguise, but are most likely ethereal (bodyless) when not assigned to a body. If they are fixed beings with bodies and with wings like you say, then this is their physical limitation as well. Their body needs to turn somewhere if they loose their spirit from that shell to disguise themselves in a humanly body. If angels have physical bodies then it is slightly awkward for them to transport themselves and they must obey to the laws of physics.

And in the same kind of translations you provide me with God has a throne and will come to Earth with the angels in swarms at the end of days, according to that interpretation.

But there is a spiritual realm which that you cannot see because you cannot see through this illusion, even if you can acquire knowledge of how things really are. When you die you will see through the illusion. You could not see it because you were locked inside a beast body.

Perceptive enough people may be able to "feel" beyond this illusion though.

If there are evil spirits that are ethereal, they are not the only Jinns in that case. Jinn is a person who is not under the grace of God so to say.

Evil or good spirits do not work the way we understand it and are likely not bound to space or time as to give them a definition as per how we perceive the world.

But angels nor we in the next life will not be restricted by physical bodies. Angels may be a prior kind of souls who have passed another test. The beast you is not really you but only the spiritual part of you is. The beast (physical body) will die and you will attain a spirit form.

If one is wise in this life they begin to separate the spirit from the flesh now already instead of indulging in it, because it seems that the ones who do not manage this have a lesser accommodation than the ones who do. This is JUST an illusion and it will not work this way later. And it is all about spiritual assimilation and to grow spiritually.

Have faith
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FreedomStands

Quote from: Man of Faith on January 07, 2015, 11:43:39 AM
Yes, but all translations are interpretations. You supplied me with a translation.

Humans are also ethereal beings, but we are assigned to fleshly bodies, which are like a jail. However our soul is abstract and ethereal and once we live no more we free the spirit from the flesh (give up the spirit).

The angels can be assigned to bodies in disguise, but are most likely ethereal (bodyless) when not assigned to a body. If they are fixed beings with bodies and with wings like you say, then this is their physical limitation as well. Their body needs to turn somewhere if they loose their spirit from that shell to disguise themselves in a humanly body. If angels have physical bodies then it is slightly awkward for them to transport themselves and they must obey to the laws of physics.

And in the same kind of translations you provide me with God has a throne and will come to Earth with the angels in swarms at the end of days, according to that interpretation.

But there is a spiritual realm which that you cannot see because you cannot see through this illusion, even if you can acquire knowledge of how things really are. When you die you will see through the illusion. You could not see it because you were locked inside a beast body.

Perceptive enough people may be able to "feel" beyond this illusion though.

If there are evil spirits that are ethereal, they are not the only Jinns in that case. Jinn is a person who is not under the grace of God so to say.

Evil or good spirits do not work the way we understand it and are likely not bound to space or time as to give them a definition as per how we perceive the world.

But angels nor we in the next life will not be restricted by physical bodies. Angels may be a prior kind of souls who have passed another test. The beast you is not really you but only the spiritual part of you is. The beast (physical body) will die and you will attain a spirit form.

If one is wise in this life they begin to separate the spirit from the flesh now already instead of indulging in it, because it seems that the ones who do not manage this have a lesser accommodation than the ones who do. This is JUST an illusion and it will not work this way later. And it is all about spiritual assimilation and to grow spiritually.

Have faith

Thank you. Why do you think the laws of physics must be obeyed, when the snake was turned into the staff and the angels said Allah only says "Be" and it is? This is all information, it can change easily, the throne can come down, it doesn't mean that anything is necessarily visibly on it. What is an ethereal thing? It is unseen but has some limitations, an invisible set of limitations or "form"? We are just experience, we are "empty" in a sense, there is only the information we are receiving, same as an angel might receive information or a jinn. Just a few months ago you weren't sure about the Jinn, how did you become so sure now that its a reference to a certain kind of disbeliever or whatever, when the Qur'an even mentions believers among them? I'm more concerned about how just a few months ago you were more open seeming and have since strongly decided this thing.

Do you read the Qur'an completely, repeatedly? How do you practice your system? Your ideas at times seem to match up well with certain Gnostic ideas, like the idea of being trapped within a material body while we are ethereal beings, which Yoda says "crude matter" and whatever, but you seem to believe in sciences as if sciences aren't just an illusion as well, that if Allah wills, some information doesn't have to fit neatly into the "laws of physics" which are just laws Allah makes up anyway. The Qur'an repeatedly shows examples of how Allah can defy any such things easily, since its all information which Allah can change in an instant like turning the staff into a snake and the snake into a staff, it was to demonstrate that these things do not have to accord to any system or sciences or laws, the only law is what Allah says to "Be" and it is.

The jinn are mentioned alongside humanity repeatedly, the root of the word comes from "hidden", its the same root used for words like Jannah, implying a "hidden garden" type idea probably.

How is it that these things supposedly made of "smokeless fire" (and what is the point of it mentioning that repeatedly in the Qur'an if they are humans), are mentioned being made before the humankind? Why are they mentioned apart from humankind? Why are you so convinced of your theory? Did you see the videos I posted even? You can even see them in there.

What we are, what everything is, is information, we are experience, we are experiencers of information, whatever information God makes for us is what we "know" and "are", so the ethereal bodies (is there some science regarding them as well?), are they anything if they have no body? They would only be what we are currently, nothing but information input, experiencing information that God is creating for us, whatever it might be.
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runninglikezebras

I again want to stress how the creation of Jinn and human correlates with the events of big bang.  Before helium was formed in the very early beginning after big bang the universe was massively hot.  Light was not seperated from matter.  In fact matter didn't even exist.  In a very short time frame the universe expanded massively and cooled down a little eventually resulting in light being seperated from matter and the formation of atoms. 

The background noise scientists measure still today from big bang is an echo from this moment during the big bang.  In fact before these atoms were formed the entire universe was transparent.  Hidden.

Now compare this to the hidden Jinn being created before material man. 

Is it superstitious to believe Jinn are hidden creatures seperate from humans?  No, it requires as much superstition as to believe this whole universe at one point was in such a state.
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FreedomStands

Quote from: runninglikezebras on January 07, 2015, 10:22:16 AM
Please view my earlier post in which I explain this to be a reference to lighter and heavier elements.  The smokeless fire being referred to in Quran is of course the early state of the universe after Big Bang, consisting of clouds of gas (hydrogen and helium).  By the effects of gravity these clouds formed into stars.

The jinn look like auroras in many ways like the aurora borealis in how they move and appear, but the jinn are not stars if that is what you are suggesting, since they can not even go into the heavens according to the Surah about the Jinn to pry into its secrets when they tried and find that they are in danger there, they are also clearly on Earth awaiting judgment, and can disbelieve while others can believe, while the stars are all obedient to Allah. Iblis is not a star either, he was sent into the world along with humans.
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runninglikezebras

Quote from: FreedomStands on January 07, 2015, 08:32:17 PM
The jinn look like auroras in many ways like the aurora borealis in how they move and appear, but the jinn are not stars if that is what you are suggesting, since they can not even go into the heavens according to the Surah about the Jinn to pry into its secrets when they tried and find that they are in danger there, they are also clearly on Earth awaiting judgment, and can disbelieve while others can believe, while the stars are all obedient to Allah. Iblis is not a star either, he was sent into the world along with humans.

I am nowhere suggesting Jinn are stars.  The only thing I'm saying is this universe at some point was a place that did not have matter.  If Jinn existed in that environment which they likely did they must have been made of the same building blocks the universe was made of then.  Either deuterium, hydrogen or helium-4.  (Note: everything is created in pairs - deuterium has a nucleus composed of two particles).
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FreedomStands

Quote from: runninglikezebras on January 07, 2015, 08:36:43 PM
I am nowhere suggesting Jinn are stars.  The only thing I'm saying is this universe at some point was a place that did not have matter.  If Jinn existed in that environment which they likely did they must have been made of the same building blocks the universe was made of then.  Either deuterium, hydrogen or helium-4.  (Note: everything is created in pairs - deuterium has a nucleus composed of two particles).

Yeah, that is a fine idea, though I don't think they were created nearly that early though, but maybe.
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Man of Faith

Harmony Freedom,

I think I cannot really agree with you on the Jinn root as meaning hidden. جان is regarded as meaning snake and this is because it has usually seen seen as a 'lowly being' as the letters ج and ن mean literally 'lowly entity'.

"Trapped" inside a beast as you say is the general message of both Jesus and Quran. It is of course difficult to comprehend exactly how things work, but it is a sort of spiritual assimilation with what is Allah that is the aim for a person who has grasped the message.

If you mention Gnosticism then you place me in a religion which I am not.

We are information yes, or rather, our physical bodies and everything else in the world we see, is made of energy as its base. If a staff can turn into a snake this is nothing strange since God is in control of the creation.

Have faith
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FreedomStands

Quote from: Man of Faith on January 08, 2015, 08:50:40 AM
Harmony Freedom,

I think I cannot really agree with you on the Jinn root as meaning hidden. جان is regarded as meaning snake and this is because it has usually seen seen as a 'lowly being' as the letters ج and ن mean literally 'lowly entity'.

"Trapped" inside a beast as you say is the general message of both Jesus and Quran. It is of course difficult to comprehend exactly how things work, but it is a sort of spiritual assimilation with what is Allah that is the aim for a person who has grasped the message.

If you mention Gnosticism then you place me in a religion which I am not.

We are information yes, or rather, our physical bodies and everything else in the world we see, is made of energy as its base. If a staff can turn into a snake this is nothing strange since God is in control of the creation.

Have faith

Why have so many linguists associated the root or radix of the term Jinn as well as Jannah with "hidden"? What does Jannah have to do with snakes? Are you trying to mix up Nachash from the Bible with Jinn?

What is your objection to the Jinn being a natural being alongside the human race? Why is this a problem? Is it because you haven't seen them or met them personally?

I'm not accusing you of being a Gnostic, its just that the idea of an "ethereal body" or whatever that is within matter is an idea that seems somewhat important in Gnosticism.

Do you perform worship? I'm just curious how you practice your system, if you worship with prostration or at all or what.

I'm also wondering why you've come to these conclusions and what basis you have for what you are saying and also what motivation (like why you particularly don't like the idea).

The root the term jinn is well known among non-muslim linguists to mean "hidden" as well, so this is not some idea coming from Muslims only. Just a few months ago you didn't seem to be so confident on the matter, but now you are spreading the idea very frequently and with lots of confidence, how did that come about?

Snake is a different word, lowly is a different word. Is Jannah lowly somehow? Is Jannah like a snake or a place of snakes?

Regardless of that, the jinn have often been associated with snakes because of their misty form and movement, moving like the aurora at times, like big or little mist snakes or "dragons", nagas, and other things that twirl around and slink, and the "daemons" which are "made of aer" which is basically misty looking stuff in the Roman understanding, appeared heavier than the atmosphere.

They have been referred to throughout the ages, its not some new idea, and yes the people of the world were superstitious, but that does not mean that the creation of the jinn, which the Qur'an says are made of "smokeless fire" and made "before" the "nas" of which "Iblis" was one who even knows and believes in Allah and prayed to Allah so is not "without faith" if by "faith" you mean "belief", since Iblis believes in Allah but he is still a disbeliever in the sense that he lost hope or "despaired" as the root meaning of the word Iblis (balasa) means. He was of the jinn, the jinn who were made before humankind.

Do you read the Qur'an every day or often? Is the Bible very important to you? Arabic didn't derive from Hebrew, and Arabic is considered by some non-muslim linguists to have retained many of the original meanings of words that are found in the Akkadian language and so they look to Arabic often to figure out the root meanings much of the time.

Do you have Edward Lane's lexicon? You should get it, it discusses all the roots and gives huge insight, also to look into the Akkadian language dictionary or lexicon which is available online. It gives lots of insight into words like Muslim, Allah, and whatever, even roots for Jnn or whatever.

Even Nachash, the serpent, can also mean "whisperer", "enchanter", as well as "shining one", besides "snake" which was commonly associated with these creatures around the whole world due to their appearance of being a misty wavering slinking form like the tail often depicted in cartoon genies.

I don't just believe this stuff out of the blue though, and you might be imagining them in a silly way which makes you completely reject the idea of Jinn as being a creature created by Allah, but I showed videos that shows you what they look like, you can see them slinking around in the heat vision camera in one video or doing other things, it isn't even that hard to find them or encounter them, people used to pour out libations for them that they would come to and suck off the fumes. They are not supernatural, they are completely natural, maybe you would believe only if you met one?

Did you not even look at the videos I linked?
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Man of Faith

Jinn is a state of soul, like broken and not whole. If خ as in خلق means intact then ج means broken/disintegrated.

If it is used to symbolize Heaven then that is likely due to that the chain is broken when you give up the ghost. It is a relief, unless you are destined for Gehenna of course.

A broken soul will remain broken as well and will not have access to the realm which is the real existence. Jesus said that he was come to heal broken souls and not the healthy, and this in reply to the complaints that he invited sinners etc.

And I give a heck in what dictionaries say because I do not follow the words of men but I only do as according to God.

Have faith
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