Do you take the Qur'an literally?

[huruf]

Speaking about polyandry and men being happy with it, of course they are. The use rostitutes all the time without the slightest dislike. What they do not want is responsibility or acknowledgement, but sharing women, oh yes, they are quite happy with it, those who do, of course. Obvioysly not all men are that type, Thank God.

Salaam

[Samira1234]

Speaking about polyandry and men being happy with it, of course they are. The use rostitutes all the time without the slightest dislike. What they do not want is responsibility or acknowledgement, but sharing women, oh yes, they are quite happy with it, those who do, of course. Obvioysly not all men are that type, Thank God.

Salaam

I already gave the reasons why the people in those areas in general would approve of polyandry. They struggle with their livelihood. And no, their societies are not run on patriarchy, hence they don't have the same level of thinking as you provided here. I suggest you watch on YouTube polyandrous families in South India and Tibet. One woman having two husbands even said that they were so content as a family that their happiness and contentment would be there simply by sitting together with their children in the same room, even if they were living without food for days at a time. Their husbands also supported their decision of having a polyandrous household. And this is just one example.

Peace.

[huruf]

I know of those marriages from very long ago, nd though they have very good press, in real life is not that rosy, but that is the way the solve their questions. Frequently they are brothers.

And now, in India, thanks to the selective abortion of female fetuses it seems that in some areas, since not all non aborted male fetuses can find a wife, because the potential ones were aborted, they resort to getting one of the brothers married and then, without the woman being aware, the other brothers join in. Cosy, yes, indeed.


As to the de facto poliandry that prostitution is I didnot mean to spoil the rosy picture of those lovely polyandrous marriages here or there, but to point out that it is not at polindry that some people cringe, but to any conditions that might entail an empowerment of women similar to the overempowerment of males that has raged for many centuries and up to the present. No, nothing against poliandry, only against males not holding the reins of it. If they hold the reins everything is fine. And it is plin that thye hold the reins in prostitution, so no way it is going to be done away with in any near future. Nothing unnatural in poliandry if it is in the form of prostitution for that kind of mentality.

Again, just in case anybody feels slighted, I am talking exclusively about "that kind of men". Thank God again, there are decent men and unsassuming and kind men around, may God bless them. I do nto know how many, but there are.

Salaam

[Samira1234]

Hello huruf,

I know of those marriages from very long ago, nd though they have very good press, in real life is not that rosy, but that is the way the solve their questions. Frequently they are brothers.

And now, in India, thanks to the selective abortion of female fetuses it seems that in some areas, since not all non aborted male fetuses can find a wife, because the potential ones were aborted, they resort to getting one of the brothers married and then, without the woman being aware, the other brothers join in. Cosy, yes, indeed.

Yeah, life is not that rosy obviously. But in some ways several of the women in the families are more empowered than several other communities' women. The men's main job is to earn the money, do the hard labour and protect their families. The women control the flow of finances and their consultation is important for almost all of the daily decision-making.

And yeah I did hear the stories of women being passed around due to lack of females in an Indian community. But then the women usually know what would happen to them. Otherwise if they don't, that is obviously abuse and criminal to the women, and another level of misogyny done where the men benefit through deceit.

As to the de facto poliandry that prostitution is I didnot mean to spoil the rosy picture of those lovely polyandrous marriages here or there, but to point out that it is not at polindry that some people cringe, but to any conditions that might entail an empowerment of women similar to the overempowerment of males that has raged for many centuries and up to the present. No, nothing against poliandry, only against males not holding the reins of it. If they hold the reins everything is fine. And it is plin that thye hold the reins in prostitution, so no way it is going to be done away with in any near future. Nothing unnatural in poliandry if it is in the form of prostitution for that kind of mentality.

I understand the fears, I have them too. Many males do have a tendency to try to turn many things in their direction. One of my fears is that if there are more women than men, for some men at least, they may try to turn that into a reason for having multiple women each. If there are more men than women, such type of men may try to turn that into a reason for passing around women between them.

I have been chatting with some women in polygamy situations in this blog, and the founder of the blog, Fiona, is a non-Muslim woman living polyandry with two husbands. Her first husband, who is a Muslim, cheated on her by taking another wife behind her back and telling her that a couple months AFTER contracting the marriage. She went through hell after knowing that, and some painful events followed. Later on during this half-single time she met another man, and got secretly married to him in almost exactly the same way. Her first husband also went through hell after that, despite doing the exact same thing to her in the first place. Now a couple years later, her first husband divorced his second wife, and they are all officially living in polyandry:

https://polygamy911.wordpress.com/my-story/

Fiona is one of the rare honest women I had encountered in my life, both online and offline included. She has quite a great level of integrity and sincerity about her, and is very intelligent and well-read too. I don't agree with several things about her, and had some heavy disagreements too, but in a lot of ways agree with her as well. She shot up my self-worth in a number of ways, helped me deal with some of my fears, become more expressive, and caused me to question things regarding Islam and in a way come to Quranism from Sunni Islam earlier. And now questioning things within the Quran as well. In a way that makes sense at least. Do check out her blog. You may not agree with her in several areas, but you would still get nuggets of gold every once in a while. I commented there using the name 'Mariam'.

Peace.

[FreedomStands]

Hi,

I've come to the conclusion that the Qur'an as a whole cannot be taken literally, this would simply be impossible and irrational.

Anyone who reads the Qur'an carefully will clearly see that there are plenty of verses that were only relevant to the conditions of the Arabs of Arabia at the time. There is actually no person on earth, no country on earth, and no organization on earth that follows the entire Qur'an literally. Even those who think they do. But if you tell any Muslim that there are verses that are NOT universal or verses that should NOT be taken LITERALLY they go berserk...

The Qur'an is not an encyclopedia, not "everything" can be find in the Qur'an. And it's not a book of law or economics or anything similar that we could easily apply in our life. The Qur'an was one of God's "interventions" in human history in a particular region in a particular time in history. Sure, there are beautiful universal messages as well, but to believe that the entire Qur'an can be taken literally and applied at any time in any region on earth is insanity. We can and should only be inspired by the Qur'an...

Your thoughts? What does the "Qur'an" mean to you?

3:7
He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

I love this website, it is SO fascinating for me to see these people who have the Qur'an in their hands but say all kinds of things about it haha. Thank you for your post!

[Novice]

I am curious how you would see this verse for example, which appear misogynous. This is one of the examples regarding, frankly, my anger towards the traditional interpretations the Quran:

3:14 Beautified for people is the love of that which they desire - of women and sons, heaped-up sums of gold and silver, fine branded horses, and cattle and tilled land. That is the enjoyment of worldly life, but Allah has with Him the best return.

The word 'Nas' is translated normally as 'mankind' or 'people'. And that in PEOPLE itself they have been given the desire of WOMEN. I thought women were supposed to be part of people? Hence we are being regarded as not even people in this case, but like cattle, or as property, for men who are the real people. That's objectification in yo' face gurl. You said earlier that it is the people's fault for misinterpreting the Quran and creating problems in the world. Looks like the Quran in several places actually approves of their actions as well to an extent. It even looks like many people's messed-up attitude is a direct result from reading the scriptures.

Some embarrassed translators translated 'Nas' as 'men', which is wrong.

Peace.

Peace Samira1234

Allow me to explain how I understand verse 3:14

The word  زُيِّنَ
is a passive perfect verb (http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=14)
It means "beautified/decorated/made attractive". As we know the actor in a passive verb is not declared so who has done it God or society/culture.

Now start with verse 3:13 It is talking about two groups at war. One is in the way of God and other is Kuffar.

Verse 3:14 says that certain things have been made attractive/desirable for people. So the warring groups were desiring to have these things as a reward of fight. But what is with God is better than these.

Verse 3:15 says to the people fighting in the way of God that these are wordly things and there are better rewards for you in the later life.

So when I see these three verses together they make sense to me. Hope it helps.

[Mazhar]

The word  زُيِّنَ
is a passive perfect verb (http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=14)
It means "beautified/decorated/made attractive". As we know the actor in a passive verb is not declared so who has done it God or society/culture.

A Passive verb has a Proxy subject/ergative, it is alwayas in nominative case; third word is its proxy subject. Please see the syntactic graph of 3:14 at quoted corpus.

The love of sensual excitements felt for some of the women has become alluring for people;

[Novice]

A Passive verb has a Proxy subject/ergative, it is alwayas in nominative case; third word is its proxy subject. Please see the syntactic graph of 3:14 at quoted corpus.

The love of sensual excitements felt for some of the women has become alluring for people;

Thanks Mazhar

My point was that who made it alluring for people. Is it God or society/culture because passive verb does not give the name of actor.

Peace

[Mazhar]

Thanks Mazhar

My point was that who made it alluring for people. Is it God or society/culture because passive verb does not give the name of actor.

Peace

Passive voice is used when doer is not identified. In Arabic passive verb the object of active voice verb becomes the Proxy subject.

[Novice]

Passive voice is used when doer is not identified. In Arabic passive verb the object of active voice verb becomes the Proxy subject.

So Mazhar when we say "kutila zaid" it means Zaid was killed. Zaid is the proxy subject but who killed him is not known.

Similarly "zuyyina linnas ...." mean beautified for people.... but who beautified them is not known. Generally it is understood that God has done it but text doesn't say who did it.

Peace