Author Topic: Bakka/Mecca  (Read 50768 times)

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #360 on: August 14, 2015, 11:35:16 AM »
All this quibbling about the qibla...  one might start to think the Quran was right saying not one of you is agreeing on the qibla.  I'm outside all this quibbling about the qibla a really nice person according to most.

Peace

I'm sure you are a nice person. I don't recall ever saying anything related to you not being a nice person. Our debate is not personal in any way.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #361 on: August 14, 2015, 12:16:01 PM »
Did you not say ... and I quote:

"A King conquering Mecca would most likely have made mention of it if the hadith were true."

You then obviously ARE assuming that this rock inscription has something to do with that expedition.

The rock inscription literally mentions Abraha, why would anyone doubt that inscription is referring to Abraha?

I'm not assuming anything, but showing you a piece of historical evidence of a King conquering the Hejaz to whom Mecca was either non-existing or so insignificant that it wasn't worth mentioning fitting into that time period.

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #362 on: August 14, 2015, 12:33:47 PM »
The rock inscription literally mentions Abraha, why would anyone doubt that inscription is referring to Abraha?

I'm not assuming anything, but showing you a piece of historical evidence of a King conquering the Hejaz to whom Mecca was either non-existing or so insignificant that it wasn't worth mentioning fitting into that time period.

"The rock inscription literally mentions Abraha, why would anyone doubt that inscription is referring to Abraha?"

Did I say at any point that this inscription is not mentioning Abraha?

"I'm not assuming anything, but showing you a piece of historical evidence of a King conquering the Hejaz to whom Mecca was either non-existing or so insignificant that it wasn't worth mentioning fitting into that time period."

No .. what you are doing is making reference to a rock inscription which is mentioning ONE specific expedition of Abraha. If that expedition was not directed towards Mecca, then it would naturally not mention it. You are continuously assuming that this rock inscription is referencing the very same expedition being referenced by the Hadith. Kindly think over it a little over a second and you might understand what I am talking about.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #363 on: August 14, 2015, 12:36:47 PM »
"The rock inscription literally mentions Abraha, why would anyone doubt that inscription is referring to Abraha?"

Did I say at any point that this inscription is not mentioning Abraha?

"I'm not assuming anything, but showing you a piece of historical evidence of a King conquering the Hejaz to whom Mecca was either non-existing or so insignificant that it wasn't worth mentioning fitting into that time period."

No .. what you are doing is making reference to a rock inscription which is mentioning ONE specific expedition of Abraha. If that expedition was not directed towards Mecca, then it would naturally not mention it. You are continuously assuming that this rock inscription is referencing the very same expedition being referenced by the Hadith. Kindly think over it a little over a second and you might understand what I am talking about.

Nope Nope Nope...

I'm not assuming it is referencing to the hadith.  I don't need to assume such thing.  Abraha conquered the Hejaz as historically documented (nothing to do with the hadith).  A king conquering Hejaz not making mention of the infamous Mecca???

Please try to read what I'm stating, not what you think I am stating.

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #364 on: August 14, 2015, 12:39:09 PM »
Nope Nope Nope...

I'm not assuming it is referencing to the hadith.  I don't need to assume such thing.  Abraha conquered the Hejaz as historically documented (nothing to do with the hadith).  A king conquering Hejaz not making mention of the infamous Mecca???

Please try to read what I'm stating, not what you think I am stating.

Peace

"Abraha conquered the Hejaz as historically documented (nothing to do with the hadith). "

Where in this rock inscription does it say that he conquered the Hejaz?

Lets start from there.


runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #365 on: August 14, 2015, 12:40:32 PM »
"Abraha conquered the Hejaz as historically documented (nothing to do with the hadith). "

Where in this rock inscription does it say that he conquered the Hejaz?

Lets start from there.

 The Oxford Handbook of Late Antiquity; edited by Scott Fitzgerald Johnson; p. 287

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #366 on: August 14, 2015, 12:43:43 PM »
The Oxford Handbook of Late Antiquity; edited by Scott Fitzgerald Johnson; p. 287

We'll tackle the "oxford book of late antiquity" later. You and I both have the translations of the inscription provided by the website you linked. Where in that translation do you get the idea that the tribes or places mentioned are in the Hejaz?

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #367 on: August 14, 2015, 12:57:22 PM »
We'll tackle the "oxford book of late antiquity" later. You and I both have the translations of the inscription provided by the website you linked. Where in that translation do you get the idea that the tribes or places mentioned are in the Hejaz?

The Ma?add tribal confederacy was controlling the Hejaz at that time.  Next to that Turban is identified by some as a place in the Hejaz.
Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #368 on: August 14, 2015, 01:00:46 PM »
The Ma?add tribal confederacy was controlling the Hejaz at that time.  Next to that Turban is identified by some as a place in the Hejaz.

Peace

Can I have some references to this? And by references I mean actual old inscriptions that validate such a view point.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #369 on: August 14, 2015, 01:11:55 PM »
Can I have some references to this? And by references I mean actual old inscriptions that validate such a view point.

There is historical evidence of at least one attack made by Abraha in the Hejaz.   I can't link you to any source you will have to consult specialized literature to find out.   But it's quite besides the point.  There is no discussion Abraha tried establishing a hegemony in Arabia.  It would be highly improbable Hejaz was excluded from that agenda.

Peace