Author Topic: Bakka/Mecca  (Read 44994 times)

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #350 on: August 12, 2015, 03:11:49 PM »
Because it explicitly states it:

b kh ya l / r h m n n / w m s ya h ha /
m l k n / a b r ha / z ya b m n / m l k / s b a / w z r ya d n / w h dh r m d t

With the power (help) of god, and the Jesus (=Christian) King Abraha Zeebman (King's title), the King of Saba'a, Zuridan and Hadrmaut.

Peace

How does that prove that this was the expedition mentioned in the hadith? Do you think that a yemeni king at that time only ever attacked an arabian village / tribe only once in his life?

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #351 on: August 12, 2015, 03:13:07 PM »
It has its own alphabet.  As shown in the inscription and shown in the inscriptions found in Yemen.

So why are you comparing it to the Quran? Are you saying no other languages existed in south arabia at that time?

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #352 on: August 12, 2015, 03:15:06 PM »
It seems to me you have some reading to do (i.e. historical literature).

A King conquering Mecca would most likely have made mention of it if the hadith were true.  Not only that he would most likely build his church in the Hijaz he conquered.  But in contrary we find Abraha built his church at Sanaa (Yemen) not the Hejaz.  All indicators point towards Mecca being non-existing or insignificant to Abraha, wouldn't you agree?

Are you saying the southern arabs at the time of Qurans revelation used the aramaic alphabet?  Please provide evidence of it we can show to the world.  As far as I know the only scripture using Aramaic alphabet are the Qurans they kept at eg Sanaa.  Using a northern arab (aramaic) alphabet.  None of which can be dated to the Qurans time of revelation but post-quranic revelation.

On top of this Mecca was never the capital of the early caliphs.  Damascus was for a long time their base of operation.   

Peace

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #353 on: August 12, 2015, 03:22:23 PM »
All this stuff is so basic.  Claiming the Quran was written in southern arabic alphabet is like saying Mao wrote his red book using the Russian alphabet.

For reference see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arabic_alphabet

It has a table listing the examples of the different alphabets used, timeframe and location.

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #354 on: August 12, 2015, 03:40:29 PM »
It seems to me you have some reading to do (i.e. historical literature).

A King conquering Mecca would most likely have made mention of it if the hadith were true.  Not only that he would most likely build his church in the Hijaz he conquered.  But in contrary we find Abraha built his church at Sanaa (Yemen) not the Hejaz.  All indicators point towards Mecca being non-existing or insignificant to Abraha, wouldn't you agree?

Are you saying the southern arabs at the time of Qurans revelation used the aramaic alphabet?  Please provide evidence of it we can show to the world.  As far as I know the only scripture using Aramaic alphabet are the Qurans they kept at eg Sanaa.  Using a northern arab alphabet.  None of which can be dated to the Qurans time of revelation but post-quranic revelation.

Peace

"It seems to me you have some reading to do (i.e. historical literature)".

A King conquering Mecca would most likely have made mention of it if the hadith were true.  Not only that he would most likely build his church in the Hijaz he conquered.  But in contrary we find Abraha built his church at Sanaa (Yemen) not the Hejaz.  All indicators point towards Mecca being non-existing or insignificant to Abraha, wouldn't you agree?"


Lets both do some reading ... you can read about the the hadith story of abraha (year of the elephant) and how he died before getting back to yemen. Hence no church in Hijaz. His church in saana as per the hadith was built before he came to conquer Mecca.

"Are you saying the southern arabs at the time of Qurans revelation used the aramaic alphabet?  Please provide evidence of it we can show to the world.  As far as I know the only scripture using Aramaic alphabet are the Qurans they kept at eg Sanaa.  Using a northern arab alphabet.  None of which can be dated to the Qurans time of revelation but post-quranic revelation."

Yes not only the Quran but the actual emergence of Islam, brought a mostly vocal society into the realms of written literature pretty quickly. Whether they established it based on aramaic, or hindi or martian. Fact remains that when they created it they became its custodians. You may not like what they say, but you cannot deny their authority for saying it.


runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #355 on: August 12, 2015, 03:54:58 PM »

Lets both do some reading ... you can read about the the hadith story of abraha (year of the elephant) and how he died before getting back to yemen. Hence no church in Hijaz. His church in saana as per the hadith was built before he came to conquer Mecca.

This perfectly sums up the authority you attribute to hadith even if it contradicts historical facts.

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #356 on: August 12, 2015, 04:01:51 PM »
This perfectly sums up the authority you attribute to hadith even if it contradicts historical facts.

Peace

Lol .. you assume that abraha only ever conducted one military expedition in his life and this rock inscription is actually relating the story of his attack on Mecca.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #357 on: August 12, 2015, 04:06:03 PM »
I'm not assuming any such thing.  How could I be assuming such thing when I'm clearly saying Mecca wasn't on the map in that era.  Nor did the hijaz region use the aramaic alphabet at that time.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #358 on: August 12, 2015, 04:10:35 PM »
All this quibbling about the qibla...  one might start to think the Quran was right saying not one of you is agreeing on the qibla.  I'm outside all this quibbling about the qibla a really nice person according to most.

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #359 on: August 14, 2015, 11:33:26 AM »
I'm not assuming any such thing.  How could I be assuming such thing when I'm clearly saying Mecca wasn't on the map in that era.  Nor did the hijaz region use the aramaic alphabet at that time.

Did you not say ... and I quote:

"A King conquering Mecca would most likely have made mention of it if the hadith were true."

You then obviously ARE assuming that this rock inscription has something to do with that expedition.