Author Topic: Bakka/Mecca  (Read 45076 times)

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #220 on: July 27, 2015, 12:53:11 PM »
You can find those yourself, look for old jewish manuscripts and christian manuscripts referring to Baca.  You can find the references to the verses in my previous posts.  A geographic feature is not a city, you dufus.

Peace

Again with the biblical references. You say that the bible lies about Jesus being a son of God and then quote it as a historical record to "a geographic feature" which no one other than your bible group has heard about and then rudely refer to me as a dufus? Not very intelligent of you. Kindly show us records of this "geographic feature" ever having existed historically, next to or within Jerusalem.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #221 on: July 27, 2015, 12:55:25 PM »
Again with the biblical references. You say that the bible lies about Jesus being a son of God and then quote it as a historical record to "a geographic feature" which no one other than your bible group has heard about and then rudely refer to me as a dufus? Not very intelligent of you. Kindly show us records of this "geographic feature" ever having existed historically, next to or within Jerusalem.

Don't worry I'm not part of a bible group.  Again I can only refer you to the references in the old testament (manuscripts that have been carbon dated) making evident the place baca was known to the Jewish and situated in Jerusalem.  Stop asking me the same question over and over again, are you trying to ignore the evidence I posted showing the qibla of all the early mosques until some dufus caliph decided on his own initiative to destroy all of those and orientate them differently? 

Peace

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #222 on: July 27, 2015, 01:07:09 PM »
In the centre of Jerusalem sits an imposing structure (even today) called the Dome of the Rock, built by Abd al-Malik in 691 A.D. One will note, however, that the Dome of the Rock is not a mosque, as it has no Qibla (no direction for prayer). It is built as an octagon with eight pillars 14, suggesting it was used for circumambulation (to walk around). Thus, it seems to have been built as a sanctuary (Glasse 1991:102). Today it is considered to be the third most holy site in Islam, after Mecca and Medina. Muslims contend that it was built to commemorate the night when Muhammad went up to heaven to speak with Moses and Allah concerning the number of prayers required of the believers (known as the Mi?raj in Arabic) 15.
Yet, according to the research carried out on the inscriptions on the walls of the building by Van Berchem and Nevo, they say nothing of the Mi?raj, but state mere polemical quotations which are Qur?anic, though they are aimed primarily at Christians. The inscriptions attest the messianic status of Jesus, the acceptance of the prophets, Muhammad?s receipt of revelation, and the use of the terms ?islam? and ?muslim? 16. Why, if the Dome of the Rock were built to commemorate that momentous event, does it saying nothing about it? Perhaps this building was built for other purposes than that of commemorating the Mi?raj. The fact that such an imposing structure was built so early suggests that this and not Mecca became the sanctuary and the centre of a nascent Islam up until at least the late seventh century, 17!

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #223 on: July 27, 2015, 01:08:51 PM »
I believe it does.  But Quran doesn't tell us the jewish qibla to be wrong.  Neither does Quran tell us the qibla is to be changed.  The order to change the qibla came from Caliph Walid I as archaelogical evidence points out.

You are going off-topic to demonstrate a point, so I'll oblige.  The instructions in Quran overrule any of the older scriptures.  But see above.  The order to change qibla did not come from God, it came from caliph Walid I.

Well in Yemen they did find a church dating back to that era.   But like I said any historical evidence is good.  Inscriptions, manuscripts, etc.

Peace

"I believe it does.  But Quran doesn't tell us the jewish qibla to be wrong.  Neither does Quran tell us the qibla is to be changed.  The order to change the qibla came from Caliph Walid I as archaelogical evidence points out."

So you think the following is not a command by God to change Qibla? And please make the effort to read all of it and tell me that God did not change the Qibla:

Quran [2:138 - 147]
"(Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship."
"Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that We are sincere (in our faith) in Him?"
"Or say ye that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know best, or doth Allah? And who is more unjust than he who hideth a testimony which he hath received from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what ye do."
"That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case:"
"The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight."
"Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind."
"We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."
"Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong."
"The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."
"The Truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt. "

So then do you believe in Gods words?


runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #224 on: July 27, 2015, 01:11:26 PM »
"I believe it does.  But Quran doesn't tell us the jewish qibla to be wrong.  Neither does Quran tell us the qibla is to be changed.  The order to change the qibla came from Caliph Walid I as archaelogical evidence points out."

So you think the following is not a command by God to change Qibla? And please make the effort to read all of it and tell me that God did not change the Qibla:

Quran [2:138 - 147]
"(Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah: And who can baptize better than Allah? And it is He Whom we worship."
"Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that We are sincere (in our faith) in Him?"
"Or say ye that Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know best, or doth Allah? And who is more unjust than he who hideth a testimony which he hath received from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what ye do."
"That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case:"
"The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight."
"Thus We have appointed you a middle nation, that ye may be witnesses against mankind, and that the messenger may be a witness against you. And We appointed the qiblah which ye formerly observed only that We might know him who followeth the messenger, from him who turneth on his heels. In truth it was a hard (test) save for those whom Allah guided. But it was not Allah's purpose that your faith should be in vain, for Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful toward mankind."
"We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."
"Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong."
"The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."
"The Truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt. "

So then do you believe in Gods words?

The verse you highlighted seems to fit you pretty well don't you think?  You have the Book with all the Signs (Quran) and still you don't know your Qibla.

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #225 on: July 27, 2015, 01:14:12 PM »
The verse you highlighted seems to fit you pretty well don't you think?  You have the Book with all the Signs (Quran) and still you don't know your Qibla.

Peace

I told you to read all of it ... plz don't be lazy. I highlighted another part for your benefit.

And BTW "People of the book" are the christians and the Jews.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #226 on: July 27, 2015, 01:16:55 PM »
What makes you think I'm unfamiliar with those verses?

If People of the Book are christian and Jews then you contradict with:

"The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."

None of the christians or jews recognize mecca like they recognize their sons.  Literally zero.  Jerusalem is recognized though by muslims, christians and jews.

Peace


good logic

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #227 on: July 27, 2015, 01:20:26 PM »
peace runninglikezebras.

You say:

I'd still like to see that quranic proof for Mecca locating masjid al haram.  So far I have those in support of mecca only seen avoiding precise questions.

Qoran says: 48:27

لَقَد صَدَقَ اللَّهُ رَسولَهُ الرُّءيا بِالحَقِّ لَتَدخُلُنَّ المَسجِدَ الحَرامَ إِن شاءَ اللَّهُ ءامِنينَ مُحَلِّقينَ رُءوسَكُم وَمُقَصِّرينَ لا تَخافونَ فَعَلِمَ ما لَم تَعلَموا فَجَعَلَ مِن دونِ ذٰلِكَ فَتحًا قَريبًا

Please translate and give evidence where this " Masjid al-Haram" is?

Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #228 on: July 27, 2015, 01:22:15 PM »
What makes you think I'm unfamiliar with those verses?

If People of the Book are christian and Jews then you contradict with:

"If People of the Book are christian and Jews then you contradict with:

The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."


None of the christians or jews recognize mecca like they recognize their sons.  Literally zero.  Jerusalem is recognized though by muslims, christians and jews.

Peace

Well it is quite obvious that you are unfamiliar with these verses otherwise you would never claim that we as Muslims follow the qibla of the Christians and the Jews.

"The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."

Contradict with what? That the qibla has been changed (as clearly mentioned in the above verses)? Kindly elaborate.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #229 on: July 27, 2015, 01:23:31 PM »
peace runninglikezebras.

You say:

I'd still like to see that quranic proof for Mecca locating masjid al haram.  So far I have those in support of mecca only seen avoiding precise questions.

Qoran says: 48:27

لَقَد صَدَقَ اللَّهُ رَسولَهُ الرُّءيا بِالحَقِّ لَتَدخُلُنَّ المَسجِدَ الحَرامَ إِن شاءَ اللَّهُ ءامِنينَ مُحَلِّقينَ رُءوسَكُم وَمُقَصِّرينَ لا تَخافونَ فَعَلِمَ ما لَم تَعلَموا فَجَعَلَ مِن دونِ ذٰلِكَ فَتحًا قَريبًا

Please translate and give evidence where this " Masjid al-Haram" is?

Thank you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.


Am I some kind of translator robot now?  You can find the translation yourself.  To identfy this place:


"The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."

None of the christians or jews recognize mecca like they recognize their sons.  Literally zero.  Jerusalem is recognized though by muslims, christians and jews.

Like posted above.  There is no such place in the world that is recognized by all the abrahamic faiths.  It's not that hard to find out where masjid al haram is.  Still today temple mount is called sharif al haram.

Peace