Author Topic: Bakka/Mecca  (Read 49349 times)

Man of Faith

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2014, 05:22:43 AM »
I would say it does not refer to any location at all. Quran refrains from giving location names, probably for solid reasons.

If mentioned Bakka in Bible it is probably a mistake in interpretation and a coincidence that it occurs.

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hicham9

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Re: BKH ≠ MKH
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2014, 05:47:24 AM »
... Quran refrains from giving location names ...

This is not the first time that I have seen you make this claim!

How did you arrive at such conclusion?
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Samira1234

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2014, 06:17:15 AM »
The sanctuary/temple of Mecca was a stopping point for Pilgrims and is an acceptable site for making the animal sacrifice for those who cannot continue the journey.

I visited Mecca myself for Umrah when I was a child (I remember it quite vividly though). It was a nice experience that time.

Although now when I think of it, I used to wonder regarding a number of ritual performing being done by the pilgrims, and why would God need us to do them, particularly us Muslims, who try to refrain from superstitious behavior. The tawaf, running between the two hills, etc. I never actually questioned though. For now I wonder on particularly the animal sacrifice part, which looks like an ancient Pagan sacrifice ritual, i.e. life for a life. I guess I am not that knowledgeable at this time being. If anyone has any comments it would be welcome for me.
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Wakas

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2014, 07:25:21 AM »
peace all,

Arman,
Re: 1) Aalameena (plural) = beings/creations. Unlikely to mean "universes".
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596520.msg51053#msg51053
Re: 2) Whilst I understand the point you are making, it may not be as solid as you think. There are verses which discuss balad/haram being secure. This is discussed in the article I linked to.

hicham9,
In my view "makkah" means "crowding" (a classical Arabic meaning) which fits perfectly in Quran context, and also happens to be a shared meaning with "bakkah".

samira1234.
Quote
For now I wonder on particularly the animal sacrifice part, which looks like an ancient Pagan sacrifice ritual, i.e. life for a life.
Slaughtering an animal and feeding the poor with such does not resemble paganism to me. I discuss this in the link I gave, e.g.
Quote
22:34 suggests that this is an important practice all communities/nations had in common, and thus perhaps is the only obligatory one. 22:67 suggests similar. It may be helpful to reflect upon the act being asked of us and why: utilising the tokens/sha3air of God in this way, i.e. for providing sustenance to those in need, is an act that reiterates/mirrors what God has done for us. Thus, what better way to show one's humility/thanks/rememberance/praise/recognition before God than to provide for others just as God has provided for you (e.g. see 28:77 "...do good as God has done good to you...").
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

hicham9

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Re: BKH ≠ MKH
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2014, 08:56:58 AM »
hicham9,
In my view "makkah" means "crowding" (a classical Arabic meaning) which fits perfectly in Quran context, and also happens to be a shared meaning with "bakkah".

Peace Wakas,

Thank you for sharing your interesting view with us, but I'm still of the opinion that mkh is a topographic point located somewhere on the road leading to al-masjid al-haram [...] Further, according to my research/study, 'mkh' (مكه) n.f. is derived from the (semitic) consonantal root 'mkk' (م ك ك) which denotes: lowness; or lowliness [not crowdedness]!

SLM
I was not delivered in this world into defeat, nor does failure course my veins.
I'm not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion, and I refuse to talk, walk or sleep with the sheep.

Man of Faith

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2014, 11:55:02 AM »
This is not the first time that I have seen you make this claim!

How did you arrive at such conclusion?

Because Qur'an simply does overall not make any mention of any physical place by name. Why would it make mention of a so-called holy place that people may go there and perform idolatry anyway through paganistic rituals?

Keeping places holy seems almost like an obsession for humans, so Allah simply did not refer to any specific locations by name at all, and not even focus on the anonymous ones but rather on the moral lesson of the stories/allegories. And a location is only as holy as its inhabitants.

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hicham9

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Re: BKH ≠ MKH
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2014, 06:26:02 PM »
Peace MOF,

Because Qur'an simply does overall not make any mention of any physical place by name.

Actually, the Qurān does mention several geographical locations by name. To name a few: Mount Sinai (طور سينا); Babylon (بابل); Karyatayn (القريتينِ); Iram (إرم); Madyan (مدين); Badr (بدر); Hunayn (حنين); Yathrib (يثرب); Makkah (مكة); Bakkah (بكة); Misr (مصر); ... Etc!

Why would it make mention of a so-called holy place that people may go there and perform idolatry anyway through paganistic rituals?
Keeping places holy seems almost like an obsession for humans, so Allah simply did not refer to any specific locations by name at all, and not even focus on the anonymous ones but rather on the moral lesson of the stories/allegories. And a location is only as holy as its inhabitants.

hokum!
I was not delivered in this world into defeat, nor does failure course my veins.
I'm not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion, and I refuse to talk, walk or sleep with the sheep.

Man of Faith

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2014, 10:01:39 PM »
Ok. Thanks for enlightenment. I have to correct that it seldom mentions locations instead of never. It still prefer to be as scarce as possible. Although I would still argue that Bakkateh and Mekkateh are not locations.

Mount Sinai has importance for the Children of Israel who got the worst boot.

Is it still not strange however that Jerusalem is not mentioned by name?

Quran is scarce with giving geographical information and many times it is not a name but which refers to some shape or landmark feature in nature.

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drfazl

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2014, 10:10:12 PM »


3. 96
In ?Bacca? is the prime most living place for mankind; it is a noble and a guiding force for the people of all worlds.

If any one is free from idol / location / construction worshiping, then one shall appreciate his own soul or the Ruh in each one's heart is Bacca / the prime most living place for every man. The Ruh is certainly the most noble and a true guiding force for each one of the worlds.
Quran reading is useless unless we decisively stick to righteousness in our lives, at least to an extent possible. Based on such status Allah Guides, in such a way  http://foolproofcure.net/index.aspx   that we do not transgress after receiving His Mercy.

Man of Faith

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2014, 10:25:36 PM »
Even if Bakkateh theoretically would be a location bayat does still not refer to a physical building.

Allah does not encourage idolatry by keeping that kind of focus on a place.

And the practices at today's Mecca are nothing but Pagan rituals, keeping a building worshiped against commandment number two concerning no image of anything in Heaven nor Earth for Allah. Allah hardly speaks in a direct narrative about such a ritual with that dimension. In that case we read a Pagan book and not a revelation by the Sustainer.

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