Author Topic: Bakka/Mecca  (Read 50597 times)

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #250 on: July 27, 2015, 03:09:48 PM »
The verse you quoted do you know what historical events it relates to?  To which actors?  Clearly the People of The Book who refuse to follow 'Thy qibla' are not all the People of the Book but a specific group, otherwise it would contradict with "The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."

I can identify each of those groups, can you?

Peace

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"!!


"The verse you quoted do you know what historical events it relates to?  To which actors? "

Does it matter?

"Clearly the People of The Book who refuse to follow 'Thy qibla' are not all the People of the Book but a specific group, otherwise it would contradict with "The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."

You are assuming that this verse [2:146] talks about the Qibla when none of the major translations say that it is talking about the Qibla. It could be talking about the Quran, as translated by Pickthall, or about Muhammad (PBUH) as translated by Sahih Internationa, Mohsin Khan, Shakir etc.


runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #251 on: July 27, 2015, 03:12:15 PM »

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"!!


"The verse you quoted do you know what historical events it relates to?  To which actors? "

Does it matter?

"Clearly the People of The Book who refuse to follow 'Thy qibla' are not all the People of the Book but a specific group, otherwise it would contradict with "The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know."

You are assuming that this verse [2:146] talks about the Qibla when none of the major translations say that it is talking about the Qibla. It could be talking about the Quran, as translated by Pickthall, or about Muhammad (PBUH) as translated by Sahih Internationa, Mohsin Khan, Shakir etc.

Amazing! This while the majority of verses leading up to them deal with the qibla.  Isn't that weird?  Does the previous verse speak of qibla or not?  Maybe someone is trying to conceal something?

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #252 on: July 27, 2015, 03:17:28 PM »
Amazing! This while the majority of verses leading up to them deal with the qibla.  Isn't that weird?

Peace

You think its strange that thye people of the book are told to follow the Prophet (PBUH) while talking about the Qibla? Does this translation make sense to you in that context?

"Those to whom We gave the Scripture (Jews and Christians) recognise him (Muhammad SAW or the Ka'bah at Makkah) as they recongise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it - [i.e. the qualities of Muhammad SAW which are written in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)]. "

Or maybe this translation:

"Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons, and a party of them most surely conceal the truth while they know (it)."

Seems quite logical to me.

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #253 on: July 27, 2015, 03:19:22 PM »
You think its strange that thye people of the book are told to follow the Prophet (PBUH) while talking about the Qibla? Does this translation make sense to you in that context?

"Those to whom We gave the Scripture (Jews and Christians) recognise him (Muhammad SAW or the Ka'bah at Makkah) as they recongise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it - [i.e. the qualities of Muhammad SAW which are written in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)]. "

My logic mind tells me it is speaking about the truth about the qibla mentioned in the verse before it.  Is that irrational of me?

"they recognize it" NOT "they recognize him"

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Erf#(2:146:4)

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #254 on: July 27, 2015, 03:21:14 PM »
My logic mind tells me it is speaking about the truth about the qibla mentioned in the verse before it.  Is that irrational of me?

Peace

So Qibla can be compared to sons while the Prophet cannot?

Wouldn't it be more logical to compare Qibla to one of their religions buildings?

huruf

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #255 on: July 27, 2015, 03:21:39 PM »
 Ba-Kaf-Kaf (e.g. bakka) = pounding or crushing (al-&unuqa: (on) the neck) (daqqul-&unuqa), distinguishing/ranking above others (farraqahu, kharaqahu), jostling, pressing or crowding(crowds:zahm), any crowding(or crowds), competition. (izdihaam) heaping/piling together/amassing (taraakib), super-imposition of things on top of other things (taraakim), a man/male having or the trying to have sex with a female, denial or rejection a thing or person's dignity, to humiliate, cancellation/dissolution/breaking, being in need or being stout, muscular or rough from activity, name of a place.

bakkah n. 3:96

= Miim-Kaf-Kaf = Sucking, Sucking up, Absorbing, drinking up, Destruction/Destroying, diminishing, diminution/failing; failure, to cast, to throw away, to discard, to straighten/tighten or impede/restrict, to beseech/ask/accept, crowding, competition (izdihaam). Makkah (city of).

makkah n.f. 48:24

These two words, suggested by a Moroccan friend very well versed in Arabic and in the Qur'an are complementary and are an apt description either litterally or symbolically of the heart.

B-k-k fills up,

M-k-k empties and with that alternation the heart pounds.

An ocurence of that may signal a single place or single correlation of events or a sttern of events. It means the same thing, but a live thing, pumping life sustance or sustenance, either physically or spiritually.

Salaam



good logic

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #256 on: July 27, 2015, 03:22:14 PM »
Peace runninglikezebra.

For example what does this mean:

سَيَقولُ السُّفَهاءُ مِنَ النّاسِ ما وَلّىٰهُم عَن قِبلَتِهِمُ الَّتى كانوا عَلَيها قُل لِلَّهِ المَشرِقُ وَالمَغرِبُ يَهدى مَن يَشاءُ إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

What change does this suggest?

قَد نَرىٰ تَقَلُّبَ وَجهِكَ فِى السَّماءِ فَلَنُوَلِّيَنَّكَ قِبلَةً تَرضىٰها فَوَلِّ وَجهَكَ شَطرَ المَسجِدِ الحَرامِ وَحَيثُ ما كُنتُم فَوَلّوا وُجوهَكُم شَطرَهُ وَإِنَّ الَّذينَ أوتُوا الكِتٰبَ لَيَعلَمونَ أَنَّهُ الحَقُّ مِن رَبِّهِم وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغٰفِلٍ عَمّا يَعمَلونَ



Are you  saying "Masjid-Al-Haram" is in Jerusalem?

Evidence from Qoran please?

GOD bless you.
Peace.
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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #257 on: July 27, 2015, 03:22:25 PM »
So Qibla can be compared to sons while the Prophet cannot?

Wouldn't it be more logical to compare Qibla to one of their religions buildings?

Is the prophet a thing?  Do you call the prophet IT?

Peace

runninglikezebras

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #258 on: July 27, 2015, 03:23:57 PM »
Peace runninglikezebra.

For example what does this mean:

سَيَقولُ السُّفَهاءُ مِنَ النّاسِ ما وَلّىٰهُم عَن قِبلَتِهِمُ الَّتى كانوا عَلَيها قُل لِلَّهِ المَشرِقُ وَالمَغرِبُ يَهدى مَن يَشاءُ إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ

What change does this suggest?

قَد نَرىٰ تَقَلُّبَ وَجهِكَ فِى السَّماءِ فَلَنُوَلِّيَنَّكَ قِبلَةً تَرضىٰها فَوَلِّ وَجهَكَ شَطرَ المَسجِدِ الحَرامِ وَحَيثُ ما كُنتُم فَوَلّوا وُجوهَكُم شَطرَهُ وَإِنَّ الَّذينَ أوتُوا الكِتٰبَ لَيَعلَمونَ أَنَّهُ الحَقُّ مِن رَبِّهِم وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغٰفِلٍ عَمّا يَعمَلونَ



Are you  saying "Masjid-Al-Haram" is in Jerusalem?

Evidence from Qoran please?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Good logic, I think I gave my perspective of those verses in earlier posts, please consult them before asking me.  If not, people will accuse me of repeating.  To save you work, I deny those verses speak about a change at all.  If you see a change in them please tell me where you see it and what evidence you see for it.

Peace

OnlyOneGod

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Re: Bakka/Mecca
« Reply #259 on: July 27, 2015, 03:24:47 PM »
Is the prophet a thing?  Do you call the prophet IT?

Peace

None of the major translations say "it".