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Arrangement of the Quran

Started by sword of tashayyu, June 06, 2014, 03:34:46 AM

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muslims

Quote from: Man of Faith on June 06, 2014, 07:44:42 PM
And if you have quit the discussion well say no more then. Either that or stop your ad hominem.

See? another nonsense or lack of common sense. . .

You gave me the option either:

         1. say no more (about the discussion),

         OR

         2. stop the ad hominem

Which means . . I have to choose either one from the above.

Therefore, you allow me to continue with the ad hominem if I say no more about the discussion.   :laugh:

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Man of Faith

Either cease discussion or discuss without ad hominem was what I meant. It is nothing nonsensical about that. You know the topic of discussion here.

Peace
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

muslims


and you confused about the ad hominem. . because ad hominem is about attacking the person presenting the claim or argument, his character and which is irrelevant to the discussion . . . not about attacking the "contention made by the author". It is not the same, it is different issues.

What did I point out in this thread ?

I contested and point out the flaw in your contention, therefore . . it is not ad hominem.

Quote from: muslims on June 06, 2014, 10:37:12 AM
I have no doubt about God's ability to guide people. . .

But I doubt about the nonsense people make when claiming that God is guiding them
as if they are the God's representative. . .
to claim absolute truth without any needs to support their contention with logical explanations, like those Mullah

. . .

How could people know that God is . .

           1. guiding them, or
           2. lead them astray

Can anyone prove this ?

                       We will progressively lead them [to destruction]
                       from where they do not know
                       7.182

Therefore, this is absolutely nonsense. . and just like what people of Pharoah are doing, ie. using the "irrational thinking"

. . .

and when people asked them to prove that God is "guiding" them . . .
They started to question about "I asked where is your faith?";
ie. to divert the issue, using ad hominem and hiding from their nonsense, and again, just like the followers of Pharoah are doing. . .

This is bulls*it. . .it is nonsense. . . no one knows whether God is guiding them, or lead them astray. .
Therefore, those who make such claims are speaking nonsense, or in worst cases, they are the Deceivers.

and. . .

Quote from: muslims on June 06, 2014, 12:35:00 PM
Therefore, I believe you are talking nonsense and I said. .

and it is not my contention that is against the believe of all Muslims and those who compiled the Quran, it is your belief. . it is your contention, and the burden of proof is on you, or Bender or anyone else who wish people to believe that the current order is the original order of its revelations (refer here).

I'm not going to waste my time on your nonsense, and just send me a private message when you have successfully proven those facts to the world.



Both of my contentions is not about you. . it is about the validity of your contentions, it is about "your claims" and "such claims"

I said your contentions are nonsense; "talking nonsense". .  Different issues, and it is not ad hominem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

. . .

and. . . compare with your contention, did you raise an issue relating to the "facts of our discussion or the contentions made" or you are raising "issue relating to the character of the person presenting the claim" ?


Quote from: Man of Faith on June 06, 2014, 09:35:13 AM
You doubt about God's ability to guide. I asked where is your faith?

God has promised to provide guidance to whoever does good and has faith. You call me superstitious please go ahead but I have faith in my Master.

What burden of proof do you talk about. God has enough proof for you.

If you call that by that word then you have no faith and you shall see that you were wrong sooner or later.

Have you not studied the recitation enough? God "spoke" to Moses and he inspired revelation to Muhammad and made Jesus heal lepers and restore blindness by God's leave and then you doubt that God can provide guidance for anyone The Master wishes?

Have you even finished reading the recitation?


See? You are not raising an issue about my contention, but raising an issue or making speculations about my faith and character etc, and which is irrelevant to the facts of our discussion, and as if you alone have faith in Allah, and those who are disagreeing with your opinion have no faith in Allah. You divert from the real issue and attack on the irrelevant issues, and then claim to absoluteness.

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Man of Faith

Muslims,

Please get back to the topic instead spending row after row of nonsense. You have not presented anything that helps the discussion but only said what I am or not am. Either quit messing around or present anything new.

Peace
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

muslims


All Muslims and the non Muslims have unanimously acknowledged the order in the Quran is NOT its original order of the revelations, Therefore, I don't have to prove anything unless and until it is proven otherwise. Which is . . . it is your burden of proof to make a counterargument and contest their evidence. Only then the other party has to make a rebuttal argument to contests what you have presented as evidence.

Quote from: muslims on June 06, 2014, 12:25:31 PM
Therefore, why should I prove on your behalf ?  :rotfl:

. . .

So according to you Allah reveals the Chapter according to the following order.

. .  .

Firstly, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fatihah to the last Prophet, and as the 1 revelation : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Baqarah to the last Prophet, and as the 2 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter 'Ali `Imran to the last Prophet, and as the 3 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nisa' to the last Prophet, and as the 4 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ma'idah to the last Prophet, and as the 5 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'An`am to the last Prophet, and as the 6 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'A`raf to the last Prophet, and as the 7 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Anfal to the last Prophet, and as the 8 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tawbah to the last Prophet, and as the 9 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Yunus to the last Prophet, and as the 10 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Hud to the last Prophet, and as the 11 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Yusuf to the last Prophet, and as the 12 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ar-Ra`d to the last Prophet, and as the 13 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter 'Ibrahim to the last Prophet, and as the 14 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hijr to the last Prophet, and as the 15 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nahl to the last Prophet, and as the 16 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Isra' to the last Prophet, and as the 17 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Kahf to the last Prophet, and as the 18 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Maryam to the last Prophet, and as the 19 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Taha to the last Prophet, and as the 20 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Anbya' to the last Prophet, and as the 21 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Haj to the last Prophet, and as the 22 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mu'minun to the last Prophet, and as the 23 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nur to the last Prophet, and as the 24 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Furqan to the last Prophet, and as the 25 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Shu`ara' to the last Prophet, and as the 26 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Naml to the last Prophet, and as the 27 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qasas to the last Prophet, and as the 28 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-`Ankabut to the last Prophet, and as the 29 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ar-Rum to the last Prophet, and as the 30 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Luqman to the last Prophet, and as the 31 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter As-Sajdah to the last Prophet, and as the 32 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Ahzab to the last Prophet, and as the 33 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Saba' to the last Prophet, and as the 34 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Fatir to the last Prophet, and as the 35 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ya-Sin to the last Prophet, and as the 36 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter As-Saffat to the last Prophet, and as the 37 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Sad to the last Prophet, and as the 38 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Az-Zumar to the last Prophet, and as the 39 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ghafir to the last Prophet, and as the 40 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Fussilat to the last Prophet, and as the 41 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Shuraa to the last Prophet, and as the 42 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Az-Zukhruf to the last Prophet, and as the 43 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ad-Dukhan to the last Prophet, and as the 44 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Jathiyah to the last Prophet, and as the 45 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Ahqaf to the last Prophet, and as the 46 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Muhammad to the last Prophet, and as the 47 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fath to the last Prophet, and as the 48 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hujurat to the last Prophet, and as the 49 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Qaf to the last Prophet, and as the 50 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Adh-Dhariyat to the last Prophet, and as the 51 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tur to the last Prophet, and as the 52 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Najm to the last Prophet, and as the 53 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qamar to the last Prophet, and as the 54 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ar-Rahman to the last Prophet, and as the 55 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Waqi`ah to the last Prophet, and as the 56 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hadid to the last Prophet, and as the 57 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mujadila to the last Prophet, and as the 58 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Hashr to the last Prophet, and as the 59 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mumtahanah to the last Prophet, and as the 60 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter As-Saf to the last Prophet, and as the 61 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Jumu`ah to the last Prophet, and as the 62 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Munafiqun to the last Prophet, and as the 63 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Taghabun to the last Prophet, and as the 64 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Talaq to the last Prophet, and as the 65 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tahrim to the last Prophet, and as the 66 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mulk to the last Prophet, and as the 67 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qalam to the last Prophet, and as the 68 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Haqqah to the last Prophet, and as the 69 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ma`arij to the last Prophet, and as the 70 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Nuh to the last Prophet, and as the 71 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Jinn to the last Prophet, and as the 72 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Muzzammil to the last Prophet, and as the 73 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Muddaththir to the last Prophet, and as the 74 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qiyamah to the last Prophet, and as the 75 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Insan to the last Prophet, and as the 76 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mursalat to the last Prophet, and as the 77 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Naba' to the last Prophet, and as the 78 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nazi`at to the last Prophet, and as the 79 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter `Abasa to the last Prophet, and as the 80 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Takwir to the last Prophet, and as the 81 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Infitar to the last Prophet, and as the 82 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Mutaffifin to the last Prophet, and as the 83 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Inshiqaq to the last Prophet, and as the 84 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Buruj to the last Prophet, and as the 85 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tariq to the last Prophet, and as the 86 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'A`la to the last Prophet, and as the 87 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ghashiyah to the last Prophet, and as the 88 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fajr to the last Prophet, and as the 89 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Balad to the last Prophet, and as the 90 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Shams to the last Prophet, and as the 91 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Layl to the last Prophet, and as the 92 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ad-Duhaa to the last Prophet, and as the 93 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Ash-Sharh to the last Prophet, and as the 94 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Tin to the last Prophet, and as the 95 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-`Alaq to the last Prophet, and as the 96 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qadr to the last Prophet, and as the 97 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Bayyinah to the last Prophet, and as the 98 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Az-Zalzalah to the last Prophet, and as the 99 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-`Adiyat to the last Prophet, and as the 100 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Qari`ah to the last Prophet, and as the 101 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter At-Takathur to the last Prophet, and as the 102 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-`Asr to the last Prophet, and as the 103 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Humazah to the last Prophet, and as the 104 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Fil to the last Prophet, and as the 105 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Quraysh to the last Prophet, and as the 106 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Ma`un to the last Prophet, and as the 107 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Kawthar to the last Prophet, and as the 108 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Kafirun to the last Prophet, and as the 109 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nasr to the last Prophet, and as the 110 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Masad to the last Prophet, and as the 111 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-'Ikhlas to the last Prophet, and as the 112 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Then, Allah reveal Chapter Al-Falaq to the last Prophet, and as the 113 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?
Finally, Allah reveal Chapter An-Nas to the last Prophet, and as the 114 revelations : Place? Makkah? Madinah? Others?

. . .

May I ask what is your basis to arrive at the above conclusion?

What proof can you offer ? Reference ? Book ? History ? Anything to start with the discussion?

Or it is simply out of your nonsense ?  :laugh:

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Man of Faith

Peace,

You already have my previous argument about that.

But I went to the next question and that was how the wrong order does affect the literal quality?

And just because it is not the chronological order then perhaps God wanted it that way. Scribbler gave some good argument with reference from the recitation.
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

muslims


No. . . nothing, and show me.

Quote from: muslims on June 07, 2014, 05:48:45 AM
May I ask what is your basis to arrive at the above conclusion?

What proof can you offer ? Reference ? Book ? History ? Anything to start with the discussion?

Or it is simply out of your nonsense ?  :laugh:


[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Man of Faith

Peace,

Ok. Then I use Scribbler's argument. How about the next question on the author's topic? Can you bring any evidence that suggest the literal quality is affected?
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

muslims


My question

Quote from: muslims on June 06, 2014, 12:25:31 PM
This is my contention . . .

Quote from: muslims on June 06, 2014, 10:40:12 AM
It is the facts which have been acknowledged by all Muslims.

This is my burden of proof.

ie. the Chapters is not the original order of its revelations , and everyone agree on this. . .

. . .

Therefore, do you agree on this ?



. . .

Your answer

Quote from: Man of Faith on June 06, 2014, 12:31:49 PM
You are wrong. It is not acknowledged by all "muslims". I do not acknowledge it. Bender does not. Are you going to base your argument on what others say. And have you not read the verse that days if you listen to most people they will lead you ininto conjecture. Form your own arguments and not that "the majority says". You talk yourself how lost all are so why do you believe them on that. That theory is based on had it sayings.


So. . you did not agree with the majority that the Chapters is NOT the original order of its revelations.


. . .

AND I ask on what basis. . .

Quote from: muslims on June 07, 2014, 05:48:45 AM
May I ask what is your basis to arrive at the above conclusion?

What proof can you offer ? Reference ? Book ? History ? Anything to start with the discussion?

Or it is simply out of your nonsense ?  :laugh:



. . .

and this is your answer and issue . . .  :rotfl:

Quote from: Man of Faith on June 07, 2014, 06:03:46 AM
You already have my previous argument about that.

But I went to the next question and that was how the wrong order does affect the literal quality?

Huh ? We are discussing about the order of the Chapters in the Quran; about the "Arrangement of the Quran". . . and suddenly you divert to other irrelevant issues ? About the literal quality ?

What is wrong with you ?  :laugh:

Quote from: Man of Faith on June 07, 2014, 03:46:22 AM
Please get back to the topic instead spending row after row of nonsense.

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

Man of Faith

Peace,

If you read the original post of the thread you can see that he is asking what kind of difference it makes.
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]