Arrangement of the Quran

[Man of Faith]

Peace,

No, not that we are right. And please stop your childish construction of your post.

We have put forth our arguments and do not care to deem them right or not. And God is enough as a witness and will judge between us at then end of days.

You saw what we thought and we have settled there. No circular reasoning but we stopped some posts ago.

[muslims]

You mean the argument of "blind faith" and "superstitious" ?

and please don't divert this issue from "rational thinking" to "irrational thinking", such as God teaches us. . .

or such statement like "let God give light upon it for you through inspiration."

This statement is "bulls*it", since "no one knows" whether God guide us or lead us astray,

and thus. . . please discuss from the aspect of what a human being can understand.

Because I cannot find any other argument than the following contention, or one which similar contention.

And should I base my faith on some order of revelation just randomly. I could do so as it does not change anything regardless.

Al-hikmah you get by melding with God and seek close proximity and guidance. And by following the decree which was commanded to be followed. The knowledge of to judge fairly and in accordance to the decree is your al-hikmah. It should be the basis of your behavior, your judgment.

Then repeat it all the way to the end.

[Man of Faith]

The Deen refers to the ways to live and to uphold what those righteous people in the past covenanted with God, ie to follow the decree and judgement by The Master's "standards".

Any interpretation beyond that is merely conjecture. And the decree is easily recognized no matter which order you put the recited chapters.

There is nothing magical with the words. They are just from the ancient Arabic tongue the recitation was revealed in.

And if you allow me to put it very brief I can tell that the decree is about doing good, being good and have faith in the one who sent you here. And if you do good (as per your own description "rational thinking") then you uphold the decreed parameters and judge with it then you are guided.

Peace

[muslims]

ISSUE: Did people change the order of the Chapters or not ?

If they did. . where is the authority for them to change the chronological order of the Chapters ?

end.

[Man of Faith]

"Blind" is in the eye of the beholder. Do you tell me not to believe in God because then I would be superstitious?

What is the superstition that I believe? That God is in perfect control of everything and can send a sign at any time no matter what era it is? Do you have any faith?

Please if you come with an ad hominem you have to provide valid arguments for that, at least.

If it is a correct argument then I can repeat it as many times as I like, but I may become tired.

Peace

[Man of Faith]

Yes, but you need evidence that suggests that they have been changed in the first place.

[Scribbler]

The chronological order of the verses is the "ways of God", but people have changed it and make the Book hard to understand for many people.

Your so-called 'chronological order' has no basis in the Quran. You are simply following man-made ahadith and ascribing it to God without any warrant. Before you prove your chronological order, you first have to provide proof of authority and authenticity of your ahadith, which were compiled approximately 200 years after the death of the prophet. While the Quran testifies that its arrangement has been arranged when the prophet was still alive, do you ask us to take your ahadith over Quran's own testimony?

Have you not read these verses below?

25:32
And those who disbelieve say: Why is the Quran not revealed to him all at once? (It is revealed) thus that We may strengthen thy heart there with; and We have arranged it in right order (Arabic: Ratalnahu tartila)

73:4
...and arrange (Arabic: Wa-rattili) the Quran in its arrangement (Arabic: Tartilan)


The words 'rattilli' and 'tartilan' are formed of the same root word RA-TA-LAM, which means to put something in order, to make even or well arranged/set together, to make correct or to put in the right state of arrangement.


Therefore, it is absolutely clear from the Quran's own testimony that it had been arranged in its order before the demise of the prophet.

[muslims]

What is the superstition that I believe?

That the God is guiding you. . and without any reasoning or logical explanation. .
The argument which rest absolutely on blind faith, which rest absolutely on "irrational thinking"

Whereas Allah said:

                       We will progressively lead them [to destruction]
                      from where they do not know
                       7.182

Therefore, it is your burden of proof to prove that you know what Allah said people do not know. . .

. . .

For me, no one know whether God is guiding or leading someone to astray

Thus, the statement is bulls*it, for example:

"let God give light upon it for you through inspiration"

[muslims]

Your so-called 'chronological order' has no basis in the Quran. You are simply following man-made ahadith and ascribing it to God without any warrant. Before you prove your chronological order, you first have to provide proof of authority and authenticity of your ahadith, which were compiled approximately 200 years after the death of the prophet. While the Quran testifies that its arrangement has been arranged when the prophet was still alive, do you ask us to take your ahadith over Quran's own testimony?

That is not the issue since I does not say that the order was correct or perfect, I said "people could start to compare" and it could be any other order.

People could start to compare the chronological order of the verses and the chronological facts from the Quran

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronological_Order_of_the_Qur'an

However, that is not the real issue. . .

The real issue is why following the man made order of the verses when God sent the revelations chronologically ?

. . .

My argument is that it is obvious that the current order is not the original order of the Chapters in the Quran.

Therefore, why people are following that order ?

Do you have any authority to arrange it that way ?

[Man of Faith]

Peace,

You doubt about God's ability to guide. I asked where is your faith?

God has promised to provide guidance to whoever does good and has faith. You call me superstitious please go ahead but I have faith in my Master.

What burden of proof do you talk about. God has enough proof for you.

If you call that by that word then you have no faith and you shall see that you were wrong sooner or later.

Have you not studied the recitation enough? God "spoke" to Moses and he inspired revelation to Muhammad and made Jesus heal lepers and restore blindness by God's leave and then you doubt that God can provide guidance for anyone The Master wishes?

Have you even finished reading the recitation?