What is the Quran ?

[muslims]

I believe the Quran is:

          1. The Old Testament, Torah (Earth, before Prophethood. . Mecca, read. . )
          2. The New Testament, Bible (Air. . Mecca, purify. . .)
          3. The Final Testament, the Quran (Fire. . Medina, rule and order, practice . . )

These three books constitute the whole Quran. . .

          For those who are
                    1. on a clarity from their Lord
                    2. and are followed by a testimony from Him
                    3. and before it was the Scripture of Moses as a guide and a mercy

          they will believe in it (ie. the Quran . . conditions to be treated as believers of the Quran)

          And whoever rejects it from amongst the parties
          then the Fire is his meeting place
          (11.17)


          And those who believe in what was sent down to you
          and what was sent down before you
          (2.4)


and lastly, water (wisdom). . . to mixed all those elements to create Earth. . .life.


     It is He who has sent among the unlettered
     a Messenger from themselves
          1. reciting to them His verses and (earth)
          2. purifying them and  (air)
          3. teaching them the Book (fire)
          4. and wisdom (water)
     although they were before in clear error
     (62:2)


(anti-clockwise direction)

ie. . .

          Indeed, IT IS A NOBLE QURAN
          In a protected Book
          None can grasp it (wisdom, water)
          except those purified (from shirk, ie. the idolaters, self)
          (56:77-79) 



and. . all these might be the reason why the Muslim Ummah is in a complete mess. . .

I believe because they are arrogance towards other sects , the ideology of "I am right, other religions are wrong!"

and therefore , they need to prostrate to mankind (ie. Adam). . . just like what angels did.

[muslims]

From fist section, What is Islam ? (locked), understanding balance and justice . . from the Sunnatullah.


. . .

Allah does not object the Christian combine their Book with the Torah

                 And the Jews said: ?The Nazarenes have no basis,? and

                 the Nazarenes said: ?The Jews have no basis,?

                 while they are both reciting the Scripture!

                 2.113


Therefore , the Quran is

                 1. what have been revealed to Muhammad (the Final Testament)
                 2. the New Testament and
                 3. the Old Testament.

and

                 Say: ?We believe in God

                 and what was sent down to us
                 and what was sent down to
                                  Abraham 
                                  and Ishmael
                                  and Isaac
                                  and Jacob
                                  and the Patriarchs,
                                  and what was given to Moses
                                  and Jesus
                                  and the prophets from their Lord.

                 We do not make any distinction between them, <- ie. their Books
                 and to Him we submit.?
                 3.84


These three Books is the Quran. . . One Book!

and after all these episodes, Allah then said:

                 Today I have perfected your system for you
                 and completed My blessings upon you
                 and I have accepted submission as the system for you
                 5.3


The revelations are a continuing process. . .

it is an episodes and it ended with Muhammad

ended! . . not started from Muhammad !

and to read the whole Quran , its interpretation shall be subjected to the following rules. .


                 Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? <- ie. the interpretation of these three Books
                 If it had been from [any] other than Allah
                 they would have found within it much contradiction
                 4.82


ie. must be from all true premises (refer here) and without any contradiction or discrepancies with the Final Testament, ie. the Quran.

[muslims]

and lastly, water (wisdom). . . to mixed all those elements to create Earth. . .life.


     It is He who has sent among the unlettered
     a Messenger from themselves
          1. reciting to them His verses and (earth)
          2. purifying them and  (air)
          3. teaching them the Book (fire)
          4. and wisdom (water)
     although they were before in clear error
     (62:2)


(anti-clockwise direction)

ie. . .

          Indeed, IT IS A NOBLE QURAN
          In a protected Book
          None can grasp it (wisdom, water)
          except those purified (from shirk, ie. the idolaters, self)
          (56:77-79) 

Regarding the fourth element. . the "protected Book" might also be the center of north, west, south and east . .

and the fourth or water element is referring to Hinduism. Other religions such as Buddhism is rooted or from the same category with Hinduism. . They represent the "knowledge of nature", "wisdom", and without the elements of earth, air, and fire, ie. corrupted "wisdom". . .  (they are the water elements, ie. the element of meditation, the knowledge of "self". .and which does not require a Book from Allah. It is one journey to find "self". . . It is our journey of life to read and learn from nature, Sunnatullah.). One thing I can confirm, the "Sunnatullah" is part of our Book , part of the syllabus . . .ie. the study and understanding of law of nature, the water elements, the wisdom .

However, I have not fully understood their messages, symbols or studied all their Books to conclude that their God is actually, our Prophets.

                 Say: ?We believe in God

                 and what was sent down to us
                 and what was sent down to
                                  Abraham 
                                  and Ishmael
                                  and Isaac
                                  and Jacob
                                  and the Patriarchs,
                                  and what was given to Moses
                                  and Jesus
                                  and the prophets from their Lord.

                 We do not make any distinction between them, <- ie. their Books
                 and to Him we submit.?
                 3.84

and for example. . .

              Brahman - Ibrahim
              Sarahwati - Sarah
              Manu - Noah

The image of Allah , Alif (main), Lam Lam Ha. . .

 

Karma, Jnana and Radja. . Self. and all have three elements , one in the middle. This is their symbol of God, ie. the message.

Equally, three pillars inside Kaaba , and the Kaaba as one.



If this is true. . then they might represent the water element (wisdom). . . our journey of life to read and learn from nature. It is the application of the Deen in real life (take note, what we see from them is the corrupted "wisdom" and they have not successfully done this. That's why they live in holes. . they do not live their life as a whole and failed to balance other situations. They are just like. . . Trees! They are the "Tree People" and don't progress in real life. Becoming a tree is good and will not harm, oppress people or corrupt the earth, but life and the universe is not just about trees. ).


. . .

Further, I believe the image of Satan etc in Hinduism is not referring to God, but the stone is a actually their Book.

This is so since people in those days used stone to preserve their messages.

This is equally true with Prophet Solomon.

                    They made for him what he willed of elevated chambers, statues, bowls like reservoirs, and stationary kettles.
                    [We said], "Work, O family of David, in gratitude." And few of My servants are grateful.
                    34.13

However, their priests may have corrupted the message and make this stone or symbols (embedded messages) as God.

. . .

Why all this ?

Mankind was one single nation (2.213) . . . and religion is "man made" (refer here)



To become the Khalifa. . one must understand all their teachings (even study from them or their priests) and practise these values in their life.

What kind of Khalifa who don't understand and reject or oppose "life" ? (ie. religions , since religions is life. . their life)

What kind of Khalifa (manager) who uphold religionism and sectarianism ?

Allah Alone ?

Quran Alone ?

God Alone ?


                    And when your Lord said to the angels,
                    "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority."

                    They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood,
                    while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?"
                    Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

                    2.30



God alone . .is the path and religion of Iblees.


.

[muslims]

God alone (and Quran Alone) . .is the path and religion of Iblees.

From here. . . (click here)

This is my main argument that there is no idelogy of God/Quran Alone . . .

. . .

Facts 1: Is there an ideology of Allah Alone in Islam?

         And certainly We created you
         then We fashioned you
         then We said to the angels
         Prostrate to Adam
         So they did prostrate except Iblis
         he was not of those who prostrated
         He said: What hindered you
         so that you did not prostrate when I commanded you?
         He said: I am better than he
         Thou hast created me of fire
         while him Thou didst create of dust
         (7:11-12)


Angels prostrate to Allah and Adam (mankind)

There is no evidence in the Quran
that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah

Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"
Iblees is "Allah Alone"


. . .

Therefore, there is no Quran Alone Ideology . .

There are other Books of Allah, and all these Books is the perfected Quran. . One Book! One perfected Book!

These three Books is the Quran. . . One Book!

and after all these episodes, Allah then said:

                 Today I have perfected your system for you
                 and completed My blessings upon you
                 and I have accepted submission (assimilation) as the system for you
                 5.3


The revelations are a continuing process. . .

it is an episodes and it ended with Muhammad

ended! . . not started from Muhammad !

. . .

There are other elements in those Books that we need to learn . . . the missing part of the True Deen of Islam . . .

To filter all those messages so that there is "no contradiction" with the Final Testament (Quran, Fire) . . .

To filter all those messages through "logic" and "wisdom" (water element, ie. the Sunnatullah. . .)

and our duties is to know how to "assimilates" (practices) with values from these Books
that have been revealed to the Prophets before Muhammad. . .

Allah is fair or not ?

from here

I believe the true meaning of Islam is not "Submission"
The true meaning of Islam is "Assimilation"

This is so since Allah's commands and prohibitions have its awwaliyah (priority)
it takes time for its implementation
and it has no end or beginning

Looks around and see
       How a seed grows into tree
       How baby grows into an adult
       How a drop of water becoming rivers and oceans
       How Allah creates this universe etc...

It all has its steps and takes time to be implemented

Contradictorily, submission will create tension in the society for conflict of human values
       Submission will creates sectarianism, religions, conflicts and wars etc
       Submission is focusing on compliance and targeting the end or perfection
       Submission is religion

On the other hand, "assimilation" are focusing on the value of balance and justice in the society
       Assimilation will create peace and harmony
       Assimilation is not conformity, and it is not uniformity
       Assimilation brings new elements to mix and neutralize other elements
       Assimilation has no end, and it has no beginning
       It is beauty and perfection, and it is the deen (system of life)
       It is the Deen of Islam

. . .

Of course, when people mention about a certain religion, I will answer to my self.. "that is my religion". All these faiths are my religion. I am an Atheist, Sunnist, Shi'ite, Hadither, Quranist/Submitter/Code 19, Hinduist, Buddhist, Taoist, Judist, Christian, Sikhist, Spiritualist, Humanist, Satanist, Luciferianist and practising all other faiths, not prostrating to Allah Alone or ByGod, but both to Allah and Adam.

I practices ALL KNOWN RELIGIONS, AND BEYOND RELIGIONS!

and my introductory message, which I believe there is no inconsistency or contradiction (including the other 1,587 posts)  . .

I'm from Malaysia and practicing all faiths that are glorifying just and balance, whether it is from the hadith, other sects or any other religions. Islam rejects the idea of religion and the only way to reject all religions is to accept all religions. Peace!!

[muslims]

Another facts to be considered:

The Jews, Christians, and Muslims claimed to receive the revelations from the same source.
                    They share the same source, same Prophets, same history and story etc,
                    but then why it is three separate religions?

If we look at the Jews and the Christians,
                    we can say that they read the same Book
                    but then why it is two separate religions?

Why ?

I believe there is no religion in Judaism, Christianity and Islam because these facts don't make sense to me.

Allah only speaks about the system of life; the Deen, just or unjust.

Therefore and if there is no religion and it is only about the system of life , what does that makes them ?

Believers Conformers ? Muslims An upright man ? Our brothers and sisters ?

Is there Dawah in Islam ?

                 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth,
                 authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it.
                 So judge between them by what God has sent down,
                 and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth.

                 For each of you We have made laws, and a structure;
                 and IF God had willed,  <- meaning, Allah had not willed mankind to be one religion tradition
                 He would have made you all one nation, <- We are not one nation in religion tradition, this is Allah's willed
                 but He tests you (not them, but us) with what He has given you; <- actual purpose Allah sent us the Quran
                 so strive to do good. <- compete with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds?
                 To God you will return all of you,  <- Did Allah asked them to enter Islam before they return? No.
                 and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute. <- or differed? Allah said will punish them? No, but "inform"
                 5.48

Maybe the Quran only speaks about to uphold balance and justice, and not about preaching and converting people into Islam, since there is no religion.

                 And judge between them by what God has sent down,
                 and do not follow their wishes,
                 and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you.
                 If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins;
                 and most of the people are corrupt.
                 5.49

more proof ?

          They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture
          is a community standing [in obedience]
          reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night
          and prostrating [in prayer].
          They believe in Allah and the Last Day
          and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong
          and hasten to good deeds.
          And those are among the righteous.
          And what they do of good will not be turned back,
          and God is aware of the righteous.
          3:113-115

Preaching people about the "nonsense" will create tension in the society, or . . war.

                    But whoever kills a believer intentionally
                    his recompense is Hell
                    wherein he will abide eternally
                    and Allah has become angry with him
                    and has cursed him
                    and has prepared for him a great punishment
                    4.93

[Zulf]

Indeed. We are all tested with what has been given to US. Now we have to use what we have been given, whatever it is, and do good with it, spreading justice and peace. We are responsible for OUR lives, nd we cannot blame anyone else. Unfortunately, the world has a habit of focusing on what is perceived as bad in the OTHER... and it becomes an obsession, a way of life, and the cause for misery and division. Hence, we as deaf, blind and plain stupid.

peace!

[BobaFett]

"I believe the Quran is:

          1. The Old Testament, Torah (Earth, before Prophethood. . Mecca, read. . )
          2. The New Testament, Bible (Air. . Mecca, purify. . .)
          3. The Final Testament, the Quran (Fire. . Medina, rule and order, practice . . )"

I don't get it..

What makes the OT earth and not fire or air?
What makes the NT air and not earth or fire
what makes the FT Fire and not air or earth

And why is water knowledge? You said it is not something we can grasp, but we cannot grasp air or fire either..

Personally I think the Koran(FT) is a guide to living a life pleasing to God. I don't think it is an addition to the OT and NT but a restoration of them and therefor while they contain useful information I would not consider the as being  Koran "part 3" with the OT and NT being part 1 and 2.

[muslims]

I don't get it..

What makes the OT earth and not fire or air?
What makes the NT air and not earth or fire
what makes the FT Fire and not air or earth

And why is water knowledge? You said it is not something we can grasp, but we cannot grasp air or fire either..

That is the continuation from the this thread.

From fist section, What is Islam ? (locked), understanding balance and justice . . from the Sunnatullah.

Now, just a philosophical statement...

as to the meaning of solat

. . .

Personally I think the Koran(FT) is a guide to living a life pleasing to God. I don't think it is an addition to the OT and NT but a restoration of them and therefor while they contain useful information I would not consider the as being  Koran "part 3" with the OT and NT being part 1 and 2.

It is all from Allah. . .

                 We do not make any distinction between them, <- ie. their Books

and the Quran itself repeatedly commands us to believe in their scriptures, and through the "confirming function" of the Quran. . . ie. the Ijma, consensus of opinions and Qiyas, analogical reasoning etc, a well developed system but have been misused. I believe this is one of the condition before one can be regarded as a Believer, and not a sectarian or religious person.

                 (1) Is he (the same with) who possesses a clear proof from his Lord,
                 recited by a witness from Him,

                 (2) and before it the Book of Moses, a guide and a mercy?

                 (Only) These (people) believe in it. (ie. condition to be considered as Believer)

                 But whoever defies it from among the various factions, (ie. religious people, or sectarian)
                                  the Fire is his promise.

                 So have no doubt about it.
                 It is the truth from your Lord, but most people do not believe.
                 11.17


because. . .

                but [He intended] TO TEST YOU in what He has given you
                so race to [all that is] good. (ie. unity)

However, there is no work done to study the Torah and Bible and for verification of truth and falsehood in their scriptures, or even produce the corrected version and without any inconsistencies with the Quran etc . . . mainly because of Muslim treated them as different "religion", ie. sectarianism. . . even to the extent of not using "Allah" in their Book.

                 So stand firm towards the justly balanced system of life (for unity)
                 The system of life made by Allah
                 That on which He has created mankind (unity in diversity)
                 There is no changing Allah?s system
                 That is the true system of life (same with animals, diversity within unity)
                 But most among mankind do not understand

                 Turn towards Him and be dutiful to Him
                 Establish the divine system (of unity in diversity)
                 And DO NOT become
                                   (1) an idolater who ascribe authorities along with Him,
                                   (2) Or of those (Jews and Christians etc.)
                                                   who (recite the same Book but) have broken the unity
                                                   and become religion (شِيَعًا)
                                                   each group is happy with what it has
                 30.30-32

I would not consider the as being  Koran "part 3" with the OT and NT being part 1 and 2.

                 And the Jews say: "The Nazarenes have no basis,"
                 and the Nazarenes say: "The Jews have no basis,"
                 while they are both reciting the (same) Book!
                 2:113

One book or two books ? I believe Allah considers both the Jews and Christians read the same Book, one book from Allah, even from different prophets etc.

[muslims]

                 So stand firm towards the justly balanced system of life (for unity)
                 The system of life made by Allah
                 That on which He has created mankind (unity in diversity)
                 There is no changing Allah?s system
                 That is the true system of life (same with animals, diversity within unity)
                 But most among mankind do not understand

[huruf]

Indeed. We are all tested with what has been given to US. Now we have to use what we have been given, whatever it is, and do good with it, spreading justice and peace. We are responsible for OUR lives, nd we cannot blame anyone else. Unfortunately, the world has a habit of focusing on what is perceived as bad in the OTHER... and it becomes an obsession, a way of life, and the cause for misery and division. Hence, we as deaf, blind and plain stupid.

peace!

Yes, we must come to the certainty that there is no "other", the the other is us. That we are all others to the others, and that tawhid is the real reality. What we undergo while we are us and the others are others is the descent to creation to complete the circle to the unnion in the One. Therefore compassion (passion in company) is  necessety for the human being. That is not the same thing as approving. We may not approve ourselves, but most of the time we feel compassion for ourselves. So we must also feel compassion for others. When we do that we are happier, more at peace.

Salaam