Author Topic: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN  (Read 6901 times)

wrkmmn

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ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« on: March 20, 2014, 04:53:43 PM »
Peace to all:

This is for the true Muslims(submitted/peaceful ones). Do not worry about the others, because as Jesus said: ?Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

I HOPE YOU GET YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS, AND LISTEN TO THE QURAN RATHER THAN TO OTHER PEOPLE REGARDING HOW MANY TIMES TO PRAY:

3 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 10 or day and knight non stop. how many prayers?:
HERE ALL ABOUT PRAYER TIMES IN QURAN:

2:238 Maintain with care the  prayers and  the middle prayer and stand before Allah , devoutly obedient.
4:103 And when you have finished your prayer, remember God - standing and sitting and lying down; and when you are once again secure, observe your prayers [fully]. Verily, for all believers prayer is indeed a sacred duty linked to particular times [of day].
(7:205) And bethink thyself of thy Sustainer humbly and with awe, and without raising thy voice, at morn and at evening; and do not allow thyself to be heedless.
11:114 And be constant in praying at the beginning and the end of the day, as well as during the early watches of the night: for, verily, good deeds drive away evil deeds: this is a reminder to all who bear [God] in mind.
17:78 BE CONSTANT in [thy] prayer from the time when the sun has passed its zenith till the darkness of night, and [be ever mindful of its] recitation at dawn: for, behold, the recitation [of prayer] at dawn is indeed witnessed [by all that is holy].
17:79 And rise from thy sleep and pray during part of the night [as well], as a free offering from thee, and thy Sustainer may well raise thee to a glorious station [in the life to come].
18:28And keep yourself patient [by being] with those who call upon their Lord in the morning and the evening, seeking His countenance. And let not your eyes pass beyond them, desiring adornments of the worldly life, and do not obey one whose heart We have made heedless of Our remembrance and who follows his desire and whose affair is ever [in] neglect.
(20:130) Hence, bear with patience whatever they [who deny the truth] may say, and extol thy Sustainer's limitless glory and praise Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and extol His glory, too, during some of the hours of the night as well as during the ends of the day, so that thou might attain to happiness.
30:17 EXTOL, then, God's limitless glory when you enter upon the evening hours, and when you rise at morn;
(30:18) and [seeing that] unto Him is due all praise in the heavens and on earth, [glorify Him] in the afternoon as well, and when the hour of noon.
50:39 HENCE, [O believer,] bear thou with patience whatever they may say, and extol thy Sustainer's limitless glory and praise before the rising of the sun and before its setting;
(50:40) and in the night, too, extol His glory, and at every prayer's end.
51:17 They used to rarely sleep the whole night.
(52:48) And so, await in patience thy Sustainer's judgment, for thou art well within Our sight. And extol thy Sustainer's limitless glory and praise whenever thou risest up,
(52:49) and extol His glory at night, and at the time when the stars retreat.

1 the middle prayer
2 at morn and at afternoon
3 at the beginning and the end of the day (dawn-dusk), as well as during the early watches of the night:
4 when the sun has passed its zenith till the darkness of night, and [be ever mindful of its] recitation at dawn
5 and pray during part of the night [as well], as a free offering from thee
6 and praise Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and extol His glory, too, during some of the hours of the night as well as during the ends of the day (dawn-dusk)
7 the evening hours, and when you rise at morn(dawn-dusk)
8 in the afternoon as well, and when the hour of noon
9 and praise before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and in the night, too, extol His glory, and at every prayer's end
10 and praise whenever thou risest up, and extol His glory at night, and at the time when the stars retreat.
11 the whole night

1 dawn (exacting time)
 2 morning (unspecified time of it)
3 noon(exacting time)
 4 afternoon (unspecified time of it)
5 dusk(exacting time)
 6 night (early hours of it, or all night)


These are not my own words nor from any so called "NEW PROPHET", all from the Quran. I seek refuge in God from being of the ignorant.
May God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.

Wakas

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Sabeel Ameer

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2014, 09:00:21 AM »
What i heard from the scholars who takes only Quran is that there is only 3 times of prayer a day. The 5 times prayer is an innovation made by jews by fabricating the story that prophet ascended into the sky.

Quran 11:114
And establish prayer at the two ends of the day and at the approach of the night. Indeed, good deeds do away with misdeeds. That is a reminder for those who remember.


The other verses including 17:78, 79, 30:17,18 etc are explaining the time of these 3 prayers. The evening prayer time extends from noon to the sunset. similarly fajr prayer also got times.

Anyone know how we can figure out the number of rakats in a prayer ? i heard in a youtube video that its 2 rakats. I dont know how is it getting.

Man of Faith

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 01:22:13 PM »
Quote
Anyone know how we can figure out the number of rakats in a prayer ? i heard in a youtube video that its 2 rakats. I dont know how is it getting.

Peace,

I take this as an additional invention by these people you mention earlier in your post. To me prayers (Communions) are equal to "communication" with The Lord and not a ritual to count "rakat". It seems to be a formal practice, but it ought to carry quite some meaning due to what you can read about it.

Ritualism seems to be only a way to turn the worship into a Pagan practice. Even the Gospel testimonies written by the followers of Jesus claim that Jesus warned against the ritualistic nature of Pagans and they are just the way traditionalists are with many rituals in a robot-like manner. It is, for example, written about "Pagans and their many words" and want to be showing their righteousness by praying very publicly. It is right on spot in drawing parallels to the general practices of the crowd today 2000 years later.

Jesus said that the best prayers are done behind closed doors, or in the shadows somewhere. Compare this story to that comparison:

28:24 So he (Moses) drew water for them, then he turned to a shaded area, and he said: ?My Lord, I am poor, lacking any provisions You may have sent down.?

Certainly you have to take the hearsay in the Bible with a grain of salt, but I take The Book seriously. The biblical comparison of Pagan prayer is very similar to how you pray in traditional Islam with many repeated words and often very publicly.

God bless you
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Sabeel Ameer

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 08:06:52 AM »
I take this as an additional invention by these people you mention earlier in your post. To me prayers (Communions) are equal to "communication" with The Lord and not a ritual to count "rakat". It seems to be a formal practice, but it ought to carry quite some meaning due to what you can read about it.

There is an order to do salat. first standing, then ruku, then sujood.(22:26) So the salat starts with standing and ends with sujood.(4:102). After sujood we must do tasbeeh (50:40). So an order exists. Lets take this whole process as a round. So my doubt is that how many rounds we should keep doing this in a salat. If as you say there shouldn't be no counting of rounds, Do you mean that 1) only one round, no more. or 2) we can do these rounds as many as we like in a single salat ? In 4:102, its two rounds?

I admit that the meaning of the salat is not only the 3 times prayer but also extends its meaning as 'God's law system'.  So i admit the meaning of aqeemu salatha extends to 'follow the God's law system'.
For example, 11:87 as in saheeh international translation,
They said, "O Shu'ayb, does your prayer command you that we should leave what our fathers worship or not do with our wealth what we please? Indeed, you are the forbearing, the discerning!"
In this verse, Qaloo, yaa shuaib, assalaathuka....Here 'assalathuka' - your salat- here salath cant be the 3 times prayer but its meaning should be 'your God's law system'. There are other verses too indicating that the meaning of 'salat' does not ends in the daily 3 times prayer.

But what i cant neglect is that there is a 3 time prayer everyday.

Man of Faith

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 09:53:09 AM »
Peace Sabeel Ameer,

This is likely a wishful interpretation by those in the past who read it. It says standing, kneeling and prostrating in the verse you referred to, but there is no bow down there. However I get what you are saying. There is no doubt that one is supposed to formally perform something for God in the context of The Book. People have prostrated and bowed down in all times. It was not only done to God in the past but also as a courteous greeting to someone of respect.

However, the idea of repeating the same words over and over again is of Pagan origin and that is not what prayer (or Communion) is about. Keeping rakat is only a distracting repetitive measure that will make one lose focus on the real purpose of the Communion.

But to kneel down and then lower your head once or twice well that is up to the servant of God, and the same is with what Shia Muslims call Qunut, which I do when I read hymns. I read each hymn once and only two in total. In my case I read the Jesus' prayer and the hymn from the first chapter of The Book. But that is my preference. Your devotion is what counts and know that salat=communication and getting nearer to God. Dare to speak to Him and socialize like a real being and not like God would be a neanderthal god you have to please by ritualistically performing a certain sequence like in video adventure games where you have to perform something in an exact manner to "trigger" a door to open. There is a comprehensive meaning why you perform the Communion and not only to brainlessly perform some set of movements.

Quote
If as you say there shouldn't be no counting of rounds, Do you mean that 1) only one round, no more. or 2) we can do these rounds as many as we like in a single salat ?

Well. The optimal scenario would be to stand in prayer for hours per day. No real necessity to count, but all the efforts to seek the "face" of God is what means everything. But you can glorify God by carrying out His will and this can be counted as an extended prayer. Simply remembering The Lord during your daily life is a Communion, and if you speak to God as if He was there is a Communion. Sometimes I continue a phrase in my daily life: "... right my Lord?" or "isn't it my Lord?" as if God was within the same room as I am (which He in fact is.. unseen  :rotfl:). People may think I am mentally ill if they come across me talking to The Lord.

Many people read prayers in Arabic while they do not understand a word of what they are saying and it seems foreign to them as if God would only accept this language or does not know other languages. It is neanderthal god warning over that.

Quote
But what i cant neglect is that there is a 3 time prayer everyday.

No. I cannot get around the three counts of salat per day either even if I have put it into much testing lately. The disputed verse is the one with as-salah al-wusta and if it does not mean middle communion. Disregarding that verse there is another verse which talks about before sunset.

20:130 So be patient to what they are saying and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun, and before its setting, and at the approach of the night - you shall glorify - and at parts of the day, perhaps you may be content.

And why was Solomon upset over something that the sun had set in the horizon? Dawn Communion is hardly missed, it would take a lot to miss communing immediately when you get up, but Solomon forgot to perform a Communion before the sun was down.

38:31 When, before evening, well trained horses were displayed before him.
38:32 He said: ?I have enjoyed materialism more than I enjoyed the remembrance of my Lord; until it had set beyond the horizon!?

Quote
In this verse, Qaloo, yaa shuaib, assalaathuka....Here 'assalathuka' - your salat- here salath cant be the 3 times prayer but its meaning should be 'your God's law system'. There are other verses too indicating that the meaning of 'salat' does not ends in the daily 3 times prayer.

Exactly. Thanks for your brainworks. It is a hint for the reader of The Book about the nature of the word salat. This also goes in symbiosis with another instance where birds perform salat or that disbelievers are told to perform salat.. or be killed...

Of course this does not make any sense from a traditional viewpoint, but when you look beyond the sectarian understanding of the word salat then a whole new depth of understanding emerges.

But salat, in practice, is simply communicating with God, submitting to His will and talking to Him.

My understanding of the verse with Shu'ayb is however that because salat is communication with The Lord and they ask him if God, through Communion, tells Shu'ayb orders.

God bless you
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Wakas

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 11:04:20 AM »
peace MofF,



38:31 When, before evening, well trained horses were displayed before him.
38:32 He said: ?I have enjoyed materialism more than I enjoyed the remembrance of my Lord; until it had set beyond the horizon!?


That translation is disputed, see:
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=38&verse=31#(38:31:1)
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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Man of Faith

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2014, 01:01:21 PM »
Peace Wakas,

I thank you for your efforts. I wish the understanding of The Book to be as exact as possible, but it does not give the right interpretation either. I agree that the Arabic is difficult to interpret in the verse, even for Arabic scholars.

Is there any trouble with the translation of 20:130 too?

Nevertheless, since in my understanding it leans towards the existence of a prayer during daylight hours historically, I cannot exclude this from my agenda. I have discarded two prayers during daylight hours completely, but I have felt that there is one between dawn and dusk, particularly some hours before sunset.

If someone can once and for all knock the daylight prayers off the chart then I would of course reconsider, but till then I take it as (at least) one timing from dawn to dusk.

It is "extra-quranic", but in the Bible there is a reference to the "three o'clock" prayer. Hardly proof, but I channel all sources of information.

Brother Wakas, I have studied much of your material where you analyze and comprehensibly go through the verses and a lot makes sense. But I have a critical approach to all I read so I suppose you understand I am not just suddenly adopting new ideas on such as sensitive topic as this. That we have a scripture that people can barely read is a reason you have to be cautious.

In my (current) world there are three "prayers" (if you can call them that), but people have sufficiently convinced me that there are not 4 or 5 prayers. Praying during the night is not of what is mandatory, and asr', dhuhr and maghrib prayers seem to only be invented names and no "fixed" prayer during daylight hours but to the discretion of the servant of God.

Prayers (or communication/bonding) during morning and evening/approaches of the night seem to be quite given from the context of The Book. It is that blasted "middle" prayer that is difficult to nail down. It is only circumstantial "evidence' that points towards its existence since al-wusta is a vague definition and cannot currently be used as proof.

Can you translate the verse with al-wusta to how it should read out in comprehensible English?

God bless you
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Wakas

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2014, 01:46:50 PM »
peace,

I thank you for your efforts. I wish the understanding of The Book to be as exact as possible, but it does not give the right interpretation either. I agree that the Arabic is difficult to interpret in the verse, even for Arabic scholars.

I personally do not think the Arabic in 38:31-32 is difficult. For example in 38:32-33 the reference is to a feminine object. The word "shams" (sun) which is a feminine object is not even mentioned in chapter 38, thus any translation referring to sun is likely incorrect.

I am writing part 2 of the article on sabih which will cover 20:130:
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=20&verse=130#(20:130:1)

With regard to 2:238-239, see my translation and comments here:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg195966#msg195966
And from: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.msg230280#msg230280
Quote
In my view, in addition to what I have already said, it simply means whilst one is guarding/preserving bonds (in life there are many), remember to guard/preserve the most balanced bond, and that is to God and His system etc. If this is done, then all other bonds will inevitably be straightened and preserved etc, and even when in fear, then it goes onto discuss death of spouse etc.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Sabeel Ameer

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Re: ALL SALAT TIMES ACORDING TO QURAN
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2014, 06:58:28 AM »
Peace on you too Man of faith

but there is no bow down there
isnt ruku - bowing down ?

In my case I read the Jesus' prayer and the hymn from the first chapter of The Book.
i recite bismi (96:1, 73:8, 87:14,15), and aoodubillahi...(16:98) and then fathiha (15:87) which is not a must. And then 17:110,111. And in tashahud the last 3 verses of surat 37 but starts with subhana rabbee rabbil...

The optimal scenario would be to stand in prayer for hours per day
Day time is for occupations, so its not pratical in daytime (73:7) And in night, God has commanded to recite whats easy from Quran and make the salat easy.(73:20) So how's hours of prayer is optimal ?

ritualistically performing a certain sequence.
In 4:102, prophet(as) and companions are doing a certain sequence ?

Exactly. Thanks for your brainworks.
Its not my brainworks.I dont know arabic. I read it in a book in a website. I'd ve posted the link here but its not in english. That writer completely disapprove that 'salat' is the 3 time 'sequence prayer'(which's am not able to agree) Instead its 'God's law system'. He explains it with its 1)grammatical side and 2)in context with the Quran. I dont know grammar to check the grammer side but, here's some example in the context of Quran in a few words.

22:41 (saheeh international)
[And they are] those who, if We give them authority in the land, establish prayer and give zakah and enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong. And to Allah belongs the outcome of [all] matters.

-no need for authority in land to do ritualistic prayer or communion/bonding but authority in land is needed to establish 'God's law system/God's judicial system/the ideology' in the land.

14:37
Our Lord, I have settled some of my descendants in an uncultivated valley near Your sacred House, our Lord, that they may establish prayer. So make hearts among the people incline toward them and provide for them from the fruits that they might be grateful.


-no need to go to the uncultivated land suffering difficulties to establish the sequence prayer or communion. It could have been done in their homes they're already staying.

Same with 14:40. And then he explains the salaths of other prophets - which was to establish God's judicial order on the earth. Some more verses,

7:170
But those who hold fast to the Book and establish prayer - indeed, We will not allow to be lost the reward of the reformers
.

-hold fast to the book means live according to the book and establish salat is establish the God's judicial system in practice in the society.

2:43
And establish prayer and give zakah and bow with those who bow [in worship and obedience].


-So when we establish the sequence salat, we are already makes ruku/bow, and then we are commanded again to do an another ruku ?

5:57
O you who have believed, take not those who have taken your religion in ridicule and amusement among the ones who were given the Scripture before you nor the disbelievers as allies. And fear Allah , if you should [truly] be believers.


-So the ahlul kitaab is ridiculing the deen/religion. in the next verse,
5:58
And when you call to prayer, they take it in ridicule and amusement. That is because they are a people who do not use reason.


-here the word salat is used instead of the word deen/religion in the previous verse. here the christians are ridiculing the God's law system/the ideology of Islam, not the sequence prayer.

In sura 74, the people of heaven will ask about the people in hell why they are in hell. They will reply "They will say, "We were not of those who prayed,(salat) (74:43)

-So the pharao, the pagan arabs, other disbeliving people,The Jews and romans that Isa fought against etc are in hell because they did not do the sequence prayer/communion or are they in hell because of they followed an unjust judicial system which looted the common people ? They were reluctant to follow the just God's law system.

The book is a long one.But i cant fully agree with it, because it affect the 3 time prayer..And also doesnt seem right in the verses which promotes the original sequence prayer.But i also came into thinking that the salat has an extensive meaning which is more than the sequence prayer.I wish if it was in English, so you and others in this site can read it and tell me your opinions and objections.

Anyway now i am looking at 3 concepts of salat. 1) the prayer with certain sequence. 2)communion/bonding with no uniform sequences or movements 3)God's law system/the ideology.

So when salat is the 3 time prayer,
The salat's mission/aim is the exaltation and praising of Allah. So what we should do in salat is tasbeeh.
We should do our personal duas after the salat ?