Adultery punishment

[Man of Faith]

Salaam,

People are as obsessed with Quran as Jesus contemporary people were with the "Mosaic Law". It is a dangerous combination. Jesus knew the "rules of God" but he used them as guidelines and elaborated on them and used the concept "God's pen does never run out of ink". You shall also do like Jesus, and use your heart when you interpret the Book, the Message.

God's books are a test in themselves and the weak in faith act like in the example brother Jafar on here brought up with the tax collector and the Pharisee allegedly narrated by Jesus during his time on inspiration from God.

Be mindful of God and purify yourselves!

God bless you

[quranflea]

Flea of Qur'an,
'Kum' in Ma malakat aymanukum means YOUR so Ma malakat aymanuKUM cannot mean right hands possession of others but YOUR right hands possess. In 4:25, ma malakat aymanuKUM is used.

'Kum' is a plural term, so it refers to believers community as a whole (singular term is 'ka').  In other words, 'possessed people' (MMA) on that verse refers to 'possessed people' (MMA) in believers community in general.

3:79    It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather: "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."

That verse tells that it's not deserve for a prophet to ask people to worship himself rather than God. It's not relevant to our 'MMA' discussion.

26:22   "And is it a favor that you taunt me with, so you could continue to enslave the Children of Israel?"

You said that 'God frowns upon Pharaoh for enslaving', but the verse doesn't say it at all.  How could you fabricating lies against God?!

2:49 And We saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. In that was a great test from your Lord.

'rape your women' will only be found on free-minds translation. I shared with other translations 'let your women live' which I think more accurate according to the original text.  Anyway, you said that 'God frowns upon Pharaoh for raping women', but the verse doesn't say it at all.  How could you fabricating lies against God?!

Imagine if your state and the neighboring state are waging wars against each other, your state loses and your mother, sisters or any close female relatives of yours are taken as slaves,since you highly condemns prohibition of slavery and support sex with female slaves, you would allow the slave owners to have sex with them huh?

Unfortunately, it's not up to us to control how our enemy should treat us in case they defeat us
Your question is so silly and unrealistic.

Do you think the US gov will ask the taliban's family: 'excuse me madam, may I treat your husband like a shit in Guantanamo?'  What a world!

[quranflea]

Liberating slave IS a good deed, but God never oblige believers to free their slave (become slave-free community).  If so, we won't find so many verses indicating that believers and even prophet Muhammad have 'possessed people' (MMA).

Don't let satanic propaganda through its powerful media contaminate our mind in deciding what is right and what is wrong.

[huruf]

I think that may be what Qur'anflea misses es being bought and sold to anybody. Please, somebody undertakes a big auction of slaves where he may be sold and bought to his heart content.

Otherwise I do not understand that he misses slavery so much. It must be a real treat to be "possessed".

Salaam


Salaam

[hafeez kazi]

Peace quranflea

Prove from the verses of the Quran that MMA are MALES and SLAVES

Thanks

[diamantinehoneybunch]

If God commands, then it is compulsory, period.

Women also have MMA, Ma Malakat Aymanuhun. Hun is plural feminine third possessive pronoun.
Hun = Their (feminine)

The verses that contains "Keep covered their private parts, except around their spouses and MMA is for mankind, males and females. So if MMA means slaves that you own, that means women can also f*** their male slaves?

Your slaves = 3ebadukum.
A person that is under the right hand possession of someone (in context of MMA) means a person who is not married to someone but lived like spouses. They don't have dowries and marriage contract. They don't marry usually because of status (Poor vs Royal family).

I don't fabricate lies. The verses that mention raping and enslaving are separated, not in the same verses.

Seems like you are too desperate of raping slaves.

If I saw on breaking news that an Indonesian raped a kidnapped girl used as a slave, the rapists might be you.

So according to you, God allows raping slaves?

Qur'an translation that I used is wrong, so what is the true one, Mohsin Khan the Salafi? Dr Ghali? So what is the correct translation of word that free-minds translated into rape?

Sura 90 says that there are two paths, the better one is- the freeing of slaves etc. And there is another path, which the retribution is hell.
So slave owners who refuse to free their slaves are on the bad path.

[Bigmo]

There are many verses where the believers are ordered to spend their money on among other things the freeing of slaves which is stronger than abolishing slavery. The Quran also commented on Joseph and what their brothers done to him which was selling him to slavery and separating him from his family. The vast majority of slavery is done like that. It is something that is forced on people usually by kidnapping or force like prisoners of war.

As far as MMA, MMA was referred to in the Quran in the Medina community where many Jews lived. MMA are concubines and the believers upon entering Medina after being in exile came across this tradition. Later Mecca authorities understood that practice as slavery. MMA is no different that a marriage but there is no dowry and it is done by oath only. There are prophetic figures like Abraham and David and Solomon who married that way.The Quran recognized such marriages but discouraged them due to abuse that can take place, especially on the women. In Arabic custom this type of marriages are known as urfi marriages. These marriages are usually done by poor people but recently they are pursued by the young often without knowledge of the family. The Quran wants to improve such arrangement by establishing financial protection for the women and informing family members in case one of the spouses denies the arrangement by tearing of any written contract.


WIKIPEDIA
Among the Israelites, men commonly acknowledged their concubines, and such women enjoyed the same rights in the house as legitimate wives.[7]

The concubine may not have commanded the same respect and inviolability as the wife. In the Levitical rules on sexual relations, the Hebrew word that is commonly translated as "wife" is distinct from the Hebrew word that means "concubine". (However, on at least one other occasion the term is used to refer to a woman who is not a wife - specifically, the handmaiden of Jacob's wife.[8]) In the Levitical code, sexual intercourse between a man and a wife of a different man was forbidden and punishable by death for both persons involved.[9][10] The Bible notes several incidents of intercourse between a man and another man's concubine, and none of them resulted in capital punishment for either party,[11][12][13] although the man to whom the concubine belonged was dishonored by such a relationship.[7] For instance, David is portrayed as having been dishonored when his concubines had a sexual relationship with his son Absalom.[14]

Because it was regarded as the highest blessing to have many children, legitimate wives often gave their maids to their husbands to atone, at least in part, if they were barren, as in the cases of Sarah and Hagar, and Rachel and Bilhah.[7] The children of the concubine had equal rights with those of the legitimate wife;[7] for example, King Abimelech was the son of Gideon and his concubine.[15] Later[7] biblical figures such as Gideon, and Solomon had concubines in addition to many childbearing wives. For example, the Books of Kings say that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.[16]
In Judaism

In Judaism, concubines are referred to by the Hebrew term pilegesh. The term is a non-Hebrew, non-Semitic loanword derived from the Greek word, pallakis, Greek παλλακίς,[17][18][19] meaning "a mistress staying in house".

According to the Babylonian Talmud,[7] the difference between a concubine and a full wife was that the latter received a marriage contract (Hebrew:ketubah) and her marriage (nissu'in) was preceded by a formal betrothal (erusin). Neither was the case for a concubine. One opinion in the Jerusalem Talmud argues that the concubine should also receive a marriage contract, but without a clause specifying a divorce settlement.[7]

Certain Jewish thinkers, such as Maimonides, believed that concubines were strictly reserved for kings, and thus that a commoner may not have a concubine. Indeed, such thinkers argued that commoners may not engage in any type of sexual relations outside of a marriage.

Maimonides was not the first Jewish thinker to criticise concubinage. For example, Leviticus Rabbah severely condemns the custom.[20] Other Jewish thinkers, such as Nahmanides, Samuel ben Uri Shraga Phoebus, and Jacob Emden, strongly objected to the idea that concubines should be forbidden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage

There was a very famous case in Egypt regarding urfi marriages that explains why the Quran preferred this type of arrangement should be reformed.

http://www.voanews.com/content/a-13-2006-06-07-voa19/325284.html


The only place in the Quran that presribes a punishment for men and women is when someone infringes on somebody else. Like murder, robbery, offensive war etc. The Quran does consider consider adultery as a crime as its infringing one somebody elses right but the verses concerning that topic is mostly concerned about slandering especially when a man slanders a married woman by accusing her of adultery. I think this has to do with the Arab tribal society and their honor killing habits. Slandering women like that can mean deadly for a woman even if its not true. The Quran here does not give the man the right to slander a married without bringing forth 4 witnesses or else he can be held accountable. This is the only time the Quran moved away from proportional justice (eye for an eye) to deterence justice. Probably to discourage people from running their mouth about what a woman was doing. Whats interesting here is the Quran is not concerned about whether the person slandering is saying the truth or not but rather to act as a deterence from opening his mouth even if he saw something.  The Quranic verses (chapter 24) about adultery and slandering is an interesting one.

As far as how Sunnis interpret verses 4.34 -35 this has to do with some hadiths they use to interpret that verse. But that is not a Quranic understanding. Sunnis believe the verse about adultery (chapter 24) is talking about fornification and not adultery. They introduced another punishment for adultery called rajm, meaning stoning to death. This is not a Quranic concept and violates the soul for a soul argument where capital punishment can only be applied if the person commits intentional murder. Thats the proportional justice I was refering to.The punishment should always fit the crime. But when it came to slandering women the Quran invoked deterence justice.

I think Sunni authorities did that (change the verses from adultery to fornification) because than people will say fornification and homosexuality is OK since the Quran only commented on adultery and was silent about anything else. Sunni authorities actually have a hadith that says there was a verse in the Quran about adultery and stoning but it got lost! Most Muslims simply think that stoning adulterers is in the Quran.

The Quran can not talk about fornification or homosexuality since this is not an infringement on somebody else like adultery where you have a third party. Only when you are infringing on something that belongs to somebody else whether his life, property and spouse will the Quran allow holding people accountable. In adultery case the Quran places ownership of a body to the spouse.

I am not saying that fronification and homosexuality is OK but I am just saying that people can not be held accountable for it as far as the Quran is concerned. As far as the Quran is concerned it has nothing to do with anybody else?s business.

[bookish]

I'm yet to come across a convincing article which makes the case that zina is not related to sex....and takes into account all the relevant verses...and objections to such a view..

[mmmm]

Punishment for adultery


24:2
The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.

The bold part of the ayat is the mandatory necessity ordained by Allah before the punishment is carried out. A party of "True Mumins" shall be witness to the punishment. Who is a true mumin or believer? Here Allah lists out the possessors and keepers of the 10 under mentioned qualities as mumins or believers. They shall know well beyond doubt the meanings of the bold parts of each verse and it is most essential they should be practically living as a model to all the qualities here.

1.   Successful indeed are the believers.
2.   They who are during their prayer humbly submissive
3.   And they who turn away from ill speech
4.   And they who are observant of purity
5.   And those who guard their chastity
6.   Except from their wives or those their right hands possess, for indeed, they will not be blamed
7.   But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors
8.   And they who are true to their trusts and to their covenants
9.   Those are indeed the inheritors
10. And they who carefully maintain their prayers

Such of those who have these qualities inherently well established in their hearts and the same reflecting in their lives and adjudged by Allah shall be he witness to the punishment. And a party of such mumins should alone pronounce the judgement in one voice without ambiguity. Only now you are sure to carry out the punishment.

Who has such authority to judge each of the party members, witnessing the punishment as mumins? If there is one who claims to have such authority to judge for sure then he considers him to be God; and then if such heavenly people should be judged by the other ordinary masses, then Allah's authority is rejected outright. Who dares to call himself a mumin and pass judgement on himself as belonging to heaven and he can judge another party as 'mumin' ahead of God?

Now you judge who can wield the first flogging! He is bound to go to hell and all the party of so called 'mumins' are also hell bound.

According to this all the ayats in which God says " O you who believe" are useless because " Who dares to call himself a mumin...."

[Man of Faith]

Peace,

As part of the path of following God's system is to be able to use God's Judgement. Might be the reason why the verses speak primarily of "those who believe" because they have part of God's ability to judge fairly due to an infusion of the so-called Holy Spirit to various degrees. Well, we all have some of it, but a few of us have more than others, and those believe. We can say it is what makes us human and being able to be on this intellectual level. And to be strong in Faith you have to be steadfast in using God's Judgement and bonding with Him. Purify and cleanse our minds of evil and open our eyes anew with a blessing of God's Knowledge and Wisdom.

If we cease being mindful of God's system and oblivious of the world around us and live like it was more than a temporary illusion, then we will have more of it, but if we fight our ego and contribute to the purification and stay in contact with our Lord we will be happier now but in the next world we will be even happier.

A utopia in God's eyes will establish a system of Justice and judge according to His Will and for that one needs to be good-hearted and unselfish since the ego and Satan are our worst problems. Possessions do not have any particular value and will not bring us closer to God and should be shared among the people and we shall not hold on to them dearly. Will you sleep on a king-size bed when your neighbor sleeps on the floor?

Personally I sleep on the floor and have a scarcely decorated smaller apartment and not that I cannot afford a bed but my poor brother next door can have the funds instead of having a bed. Bedrolls for the win. Do I suffer on the floor? No I sleep perfectly at night. Try to think about all comforts for a day and see how enslaving they are. Think if everyone thought like this and everyone in this world could sleep on king-size beds and it was no big deal.

Now I know this was off-topic and I apologize.

If everyone deemed adultery as the shameful deed it is there would not be any need to have this discussion. The adulterer will have to answer to The Lord directly so punishment is not really required. And the bad we do will have its requital in this life and we will feel unhappier. An adulterer is not happy within his/her soul and will drift away from God in favor. It is punishment enough in my humble opinion, but do you want to punish them more? 100 flogs is nothing compared to the eternal blaze of Hell.

And adultery is about breaking an oath which you have sworn to keep, the most solemn pledge. The punishment is for that trust you broke rather than secretly lay with you neighbor's wife/man. Your own deeds you can answer for yourself to God, but if you hurt a person then Justice must be upheld. The victim of adultery is as if he/she got a knife in the heart. So there you have the reason for punishment if any. But if they parted ways amicably beforehand then it the oath was relieved first.

But if the culprit repents and reforms then it shall be forgiven. Forgiving can be hard, but it is the best solution. Revenge is futile and when you in your mind see the person in Hell then perhaps you hatred will change into compassion.

God bless you