Questions on free minds translation about 24:31, 24:60, and 33:59

[Little Mannie]

The Qur'an does not usually enjoin things on women for the sake of the males, but for their own sake or the keeping of linneage regarding children. But nowhere is anything said that women should take care of males morality. This twisting of the injonctions of the Qur'an to women for the benefit of men is gratuitous and unfounded. Women in 24.31 are precisely told all that that is thrown upon "western" mores, the exploitation of women physical atributes for the plesure, entertainment, vanity of males. That is why they must not parade, exhibit their beauty. Nowhere does it say that it should not be seen, what it says it that they do not make an exhibition of it. Obviously in the vanity fair of women's beauty sexual appearance is high in the value of that beauty, and that is why it is sacially pointed to it. Because physical feminine attributes are pointed very much at when feminine beauty is asessed, not because they should necessarily be covered for the sake of males being virtuous. Nowhere in the Qur'an is tha idea given that women should dress in any particular way for the sake of males, or that what the general value of clothes should be changed when it comes to women. Women in male dominated societies usually have to deend on their beauty to make a place for themselves to survive even. In a muslim society that should not be so, women should be able to be valued on their worth, not on their looks. That is what the second part of 24.31 is about, not about keeping male morals. For that, for keeping male morals, there is plenty in the previous ayas of 24.31 and un sura Yusuf. There in Yusuf there is a good example of how males' morals are maintained and it depends whole on the males, not on the women.

Salaam

Exactly my point, thank you.

It would be great for women of age to be considered more beautiful than young women.  I would love to live my life believing that the best is yet to come and that I am not just waiting around to be traded in for a younger model.  But I can't and won't fault younger women for doing what they need to do to survive either.  It's a man's world, whether I accept this fact or not. It makes me sad, and I will strive for what I believe in, but this is dunya after all. 

[huruf]

Salaam, Little Mannie,

Indeed, be it to overdress or undress it seems that our bodies are a matter of public property. But God, does not indicate any such thing. His injonction in 24.31 specifically to women is for the benefit of women, not for the benefit of males. They have their own injonctions. 24.31 does not  establish a dressing code, as has been insistently attempted to extract from this aya, but an advice to women, exclusively to them to not fall into the trap of "feminine vanity", we have to be liked by hook or crook. It is not about what can be seen or not seen, or cover or not cover, but about the whole attitude of women with respect to their physical appearance, be it in the shape of body parts or other, like jewellry or clothing or make up or whatever. We are not public shows or entertainment and we would harm ourselves if we took us so. But there is nothing wrong with improving appearance by means of our clothing without discomfort. Clothing, as per the Qur'an, is to make comfortable and feel in good appearance. Women, through the ages have put up with awful discomfort for the sake of appearance to the point of torture. That is not what clothes are for. And inventions like hijab, burqa, etc. are not particularly comfortable and can impair physical functions. For instance, if one is somewhat deaf, covering ears is a handicap. There is no reason to accept that kind of disciplining or nonsense. 

The fact that as per 24.31 women may display, or parade, adornments in from of certain people close to them, is logical, those who are too close and live in the same house, are not going to be impressed by any adornments nor flatter dangerously their women's vanity, nor they would feel obliged to please them.  As somebody says there is no great man for his buttler. So there may be no great beauties for those close to oneself. One knows them too close.

Salaam 

[Zulf]

Salaam, Little Mannie,

Indeed, be it to overdress or undress it seems that our bodies are a matter of public property. But God, does not indicate any such thing. His injonction in 24.31 specifically to women is for the benefit of women, not for the benefit of males. They have their own injonctions. 24.31 does not  establish a dressing code, as has been insistently attempted to extract from this aya, but an advice to women, exclusively to them to not fall into the trap of "feminine vanity", we have to be liked by hook or crook. It is not about what can be seen or not seen, or cover or not cover, but about the whole attitude of women with respect to their physical appearance, be it in the shape of body parts or other, like jewellry or clothing or make up or whatever. We are not public shows or entertainment and we would harm ourselves if we took us so. But there is nothing wrong with improving appearance by means of our clothing without discomfort. Clothing, as per the Qur'an, is to make comfortable and feel in good appearance. Women, through the ages have put up with awful discomfort for the sake of appearance to the point of torture. That is not what clothes are for. And inventions like hijab, burqa, etc. are not particularly comfortable and can impair physical functions. For instance, if one is somewhat deaf, covering ears is a handicap. There is no reason to accept that kind of disciplining or nonsense. 

The fact that as per 24.31 women may display, or parade, adornments in from of certain people close to them, is logical, those who are too close and live in the same house, are not going to be impressed by any adornments nor flatter dangerously their women's vanity, nor they would feel obliged to please them.  As somebody says there is no great man for his buttler. So there may be no great beauties for those close to oneself. One knows them too close.

Salaam