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Started by sturtlaghari, February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM

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imrankhawaja

and if there is a God ,,, reason and logic tells us he must know past present and future . its doesn't mean he is to blame ,,, due to his superior knowledge he knows what a creation will do who will gona go to hell and heaven.what actions somebody take. I some times realise dejavu.. what does that mean to all of you,,  these are some of the signs if we try to understand we have beginning hence we have creator..

but creator has no beginning otherwise definition of god did not fit in it... he must be out of space time matter otherwise he  is not god..

whenever we try to think about god is it not true we always imagine god with some tyoe of material and visible thing... now everybody in this post think whenever you guys think about God isn't the matter comes in your mind,,, light, water , smoke , whatever comes in the mind is just an ideas nothing else.. so plz dnt put pressure on ur mind who he is,,, look at his signs how all are working in balance,, sun moon everything but its only we humans who make balanced things unbalanced its out  nature we cant help it becoz we want to become god which is not possible...

Allah is above from what they associate with him... just wait examination result cannot be released until the result day otherwise no need for attending class if already somebodyfailed or passed.. ur examination is going on wait for the result day there he will advance ur mind to understand how can somebody be uncreated,,, right  now we have not this ability to understand the nature of god...

HP_TECH

Quote from: sturtlaghari on February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM
We are told that a loving God/Allah created us individually and endowed us with an eternal soul and with free will.  We are further told that God is all-knowing and all-seeing.  Still further that how we use "free will" determine whether our individual ultimate fate will be a heaven or a hell.  And further still that God has preordained all good and all evil.  And, moreover, that we are to use the God-given faculty of reason.
This is all gibberish as long as you do not demonstrate which verses coincide with these generalized statements.
You are paraphrasing mostly. Shows lack of scholarly approach and misunderstanding of the Quran.
"We are told"....No we read. So show us what you have read...if you even have that is. Bring the verses in question don't try to generalize, summarize what you think the Quran is conveying. Post the actual ayaats.
Other than that we will just be disputing about your own understanding of what "You are TOLD" [[Who TOLD you these things??]]
Quote from: sturtlaghari on February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM
According to my reasoning, this is all paradoxical.
Your reasoning also lead you to believe that generalizing about a topic in the Quran is an appropriate approach.
Also it would help if you indicated which arguments are paradoxical and why?
Your reasoning is very vague.

Quote from: sturtlaghari on February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM
How can "free will" operate to alter what has been predetermined?
Now, you have ventured out of addressing Quran, you are asking philosophical questions, for which you'd honestly need a different topic altogether.
But to nib the bud...answer this: who says, where do you read or who TOLD you that freewill according to Quran is supposed to alter what has been pre-determined?
As long as you are still addressing the issue in a Quranic perspective, that is.

Quote from: sturtlaghari on February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM
How can an omniscient God create a person that he purportedly loves, with the foreknowledge -- indeed, His own predetermination -- that the person will suffer as his ultimate fate eternal burning in a hell?

It is because He is Just and not unjust to His Servants, despite Knowing their breasts and their rebellion and hatred towards His Supreme-Self and Authority, He gives them their lifetime to amend and reform and sends them Signs and Messengers and gives them of every example so they perhaps may return.

What is it with you people that not you understand a single statement??

Quote from: sturtlaghari on February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM
Why would an omnipotent, loving God preordain evil?

This is another philosophical question, which by the way has been addressed and refuted ages ago by ancient theologians and philosophers. Maybe you should study up on a bit of philosophy more carefully.
The Question of Evil has been addressed in philosophy for certain.
But if you are still(which I doubt) interested in a response based on Quranic evidence, then demonstrate those ayaats that you think are indicating what you are assuming. Again unless you specify Quranic evidence we are just going to be arguing about your assumptions on Quran and as I see now philosophical arguments that have been addressed ages ago. So which front are you tackling I see a set of two distinct kinds of questions. You are being a bit sloppy.

Quote from: sturtlaghari on February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM
Why would an eternal God with no beginning, who has existed for infinite eternities within eternities, decide to create humans for the sole purpose of worshipping him.
Another basic level intro to philosophy question.
Are you taking philosophy 101 by any chance? All these questions are the themes/thesis of famous philosophical arguments haha
This question is actually a mix because you have included a quasi-Quranic statement "sole purpose of worshipping him". Well your entire statements demonstrate lack of scholarly approach.
Man was not the first creation, there were creations before, and the creation of the heavens and the earth were greater than that of man. The malaki are assumed to have been created way before mankind which includes: jinn and then humans.
Where is the ayaat which you are paraphrasing? Is this how you write assay? With no proper citations and paraphrasing? Your philosophy professor might not be too lenient on grading your papers if you continue this way.

Essentially this question shows that you assume that anything that we could possibly do or accomplish benefits Allah in anyway. You are way off target. Anything that you are commanded to do benefits you entirely.
I want you to get serious and actually begin researching and finding these ayaats you are paraphrasing if you truly want to discuss what the Quran is conveying on the subject. [Ill give you a hint it is the (114-63)th surah and (7x8)th ayaat]
You will however see that the verb abada does not solely convey worship, but it conveys servitude/serving/servant.
We are created to serve Allah so that we may grow (zaka) and benefit from His Mercy, Grace, Perpetual Giving. Submitting to His Universal Code of Existence advances us in this growth and it only benefits us. For again if you have understood the Quranic perspective He is Free of need so asking or implying as you have that there is a craving for human worship is blasphemous, unscholarly and dishonest.
Quote from: sturtlaghari on February 27, 2016, 09:44:05 AM
Why does an omnipotent God need anything at all, especially the craven worship of lowly humans?
You have just repeated the question above, but rephrased it in a provocative an insulting fashion which exposes your biases and ignorance about Quran. You would only believe there is a crave if you are not well-read in Quran and if your anti-theist biases lead you to such naive conclusions.

Goodluck with your philosophy course   :nope:
إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِي

My Lord I repent to you for anything I uttered concerning You for which I have no knowledge of. Indeed You are the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful