Author Topic: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily  (Read 23142 times)

Bender

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2014, 10:22:17 AM »
Peace Bender.

Thank you for your question.
Check these verses out:

14:39
"Praise be to God for granting me, despite my old age, Ismail and Isaac. My Lord answers the prayers.
الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذى وَهَبَ لى عَلَى الكِبَرِ إِسمٰعيلَ وَإِسحٰقَ إِنَّ رَبّى لَسَميعُ الدُّعاءِ

14:40
"My Lord, make me one who consistently observes Salat, and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers.
رَبِّ اجعَلنى مُقيمَ الصَّلوٰةِ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتى رَبَّنا وَتَقَبَّل دُعاءِ

And

21:72
And we granted him Isaac and Jacob as a gift, and we made them both righteous.
وَوَهَبنا لَهُ إِسحٰقَ وَيَعقوبَ نافِلَةً وَكُلًّا جَعَلنا صٰلِحينَ

21:73
We made them imams who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Salat and the Zakat.* To us, they were devoted worshipers.

وَجَعَلنٰهُم أَئِمَّةً يَهدونَ بِأَمرِنا وَأَوحَينا إِلَيهِم فِعلَ الخَيرٰتِ وَإِقامَ الصَّلوٰةِ وَإيتاءَ الزَّكوٰةِ وَكانوا لَنا عٰبِدينَ


GOD bless you .

Peace.

Salaam good logic,

Yes I can see that the word sallaat is used in those verses, but I do not understand how you derived that it ORGINATED from Ibrahim.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

good logic

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2014, 12:40:33 PM »
Peace Bender.

[16;123]  ثُمَّ أَوحَينا إِلَيكَ أَنِ اتَّبِع مِلَّةَ إِبرٰهيمَ حَنيفًا وَما كانَ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ


I do not recall seeing "salat" mentioned before Abraham either in the bible or Qoran. Even though GOD mentioned Noah, Adam...

Unless you or others know otherwise.

So I am assuming " salat" originated with Abraham?

Thank you brother.

Peace.
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uma

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #82 on: February 17, 2014, 01:17:25 PM »
Salaams all

I wish I had enough time to read all previous comments before I post but unfortunately don't so forgive me if I say something repeated or out of context.

The way I see salaat:

وَاتَّخِذُوا مِنْ مَقَامِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ مُصَلًّى

2:125

Meaning Take your prayer from the Station of Ibraheem.
For me this ayat is enough and that's how I pray, how they do in our Islamic capital Makkah.

This is the only way the whole ummah will pray in unity. The point of Congregation is unity.

GODsubmitter

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #83 on: February 17, 2014, 01:20:46 PM »
Lately I am more inclined to think that Salat is inspiration and connection to the Divinity when we achieve the enlightened state without our thoughts (programing-data playing in our minds from memories) and we align with the Divinity, that's why it is said in the Qur'an that birds know their Salat.

Now, perhaps at one stage, the 5 daily ritual/namaz may be useful to someone in a mode of taming or disciplining his ego and his mundane/pagan nature...

PS
Abraham might have been a historical person, but he is certainly more a symbol (Brahma) (Av-ram=Aba r*m, then Avraham) and "he" didn't originate or invent the alignment with the Divinity, "he" is just a symbol of that total adherence.

Peace

God has no Religion!

God is running everything.

Peace begins with me.

Bender

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2014, 04:40:06 AM »
Peace Bender.

[16;123]  ثُمَّ أَوحَينا إِلَيكَ أَنِ اتَّبِع مِلَّةَ إِبرٰهيمَ حَنيفًا وَما كانَ مِنَ المُشرِكينَ


I do not recall seeing "salat" mentioned before Abraham either in the bible or Qoran. Even though GOD mentioned Noah, Adam...

Unless you or others know otherwise.

So I am assuming " salat" originated with Abraham?

Thank you brother.

Peace.

Salaam good logic,

I find this very strange reasoning. Is this method of reasoning only for sallaat or also for other things?

Just a couple of things that comes to mind now:

==>     19:58 Those are the ones whom God has blessed from among the prophets from the progeny of Adam, and those We carried with Noah, and from the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from whom We have guided and chosen. When the revelations of the Almighty are recited to them, they fall down prostrating, and in tears.
19:59 Then, generations came after THEM who lost the SALLAAT and followed desires. They will find their consequences.

who are THEM in 19:59 does it include also Adam and Nuh, if not why not?

==>   31:17 O my son, hold the contact prayer and advocate righteousness and prohibit vice, and be patient to what befalls you. These are the most honorable traits.
can you prove that Luqmaan and his son where AFTER Ibrahim?

==>   10:87 And We inspired to Moses and his brother: "Let your people leave their homes in Egypt, and let these homes be your qibla, and hold the contact prayer. And give good news to the believers."
qibla orginated from Musa and Harun?

==>    19:26 "So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say: 'I have vowed an SAWMAN for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.'"
Sawm orginated from Meryem?

==>  21:73 is not ONLY about Ibrahim, so not sure why you left the others out of competition.

salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Earthdom

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2014, 06:08:24 AM »
Lately I am more inclined to think that Salat is inspiration and connection to the Divinity when we achieve the enlightened state without our thoughts (programing-data playing in our minds from memories) and we align with the Divinity, that's why it is said in the Qur'an that birds know their Salat.

Now I'm also think the same.

good logic

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2014, 06:20:57 AM »
Peace Bender.

Thank you for your post.

Have you forgotten the verse I gave you? {16:123}

GOD did not ask to follow " milat" Luqman" or " noah" or "Adam"...

He asked to follow " millat" Abraham. Does "millat" include the rites that include "salat"?

GOD bless you brother.

Peace.

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38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Bender

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #87 on: February 18, 2014, 07:01:42 AM »
Peace Bender.

Thank you for your post.

Have you forgotten the verse I gave you? {16:123}

GOD did not ask to follow " milat" Luqman" or " noah" or "Adam"...

He asked to follow " millat" Abraham. Does "millat" include the rites that include "salat"?

GOD bless you brother.

Peace.

Salaam,

Your claim was: "salaat orginated from Ibrahim" so I do not see a link with your reaction above  :hmm

RED: I dunno, you tell me. I don't even know that sallaat has rites.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

good logic

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #88 on: February 18, 2014, 07:24:16 AM »
Peace Bender.

Thank you once more.
Let me explain further, Why I think "salat" is part of the rites of "Millat" or " Deen"....of Abraham

2:124
Recall that Abraham was put to the test by his Lord, through certain commands, and he fulfilled them. (God) said, "I am appointing you an imam for the people." He said, "And also my descendants?" He said, "My covenant does not include the transgressors.
وَإِذِ ابتَلىٰ إِبرٰهـۧمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمٰتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنّى جاعِلُكَ لِلنّاسِ إِمامًا قالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتى قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهدِى الظّٰلِمينَ

2:127
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.
وَإِذ يَرفَعُ إِبرٰهـۧمُ القَواعِدَ مِنَ البَيتِ وَإِسمٰعيلُ رَبَّنا تَقَبَّل مِنّا إِنَّكَ أَنتَ السَّميعُ العَليمُ

2:128
"Our Lord, make us Muslims to You, and from our descendants let there be a community of Muslims to You. Teach us the rites of our religion, and redeem us. You are the Redeemer, Most Merciful.
رَبَّنا وَاجعَلنا مُسلِمَينِ لَكَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِنا أُمَّةً مُسلِمَةً لَكَ وَأَرِنا مَناسِكَنا وَتُب عَلَينا إِنَّكَ أَنتَ التَّوّابُ الرَّحيمُ

2:130
Who would forsake the Millat of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.
وَمَن يَرغَبُ عَن مِلَّةِ إِبرٰهـۧمَ إِلّا مَن سَفِهَ نَفسَهُ وَلَقَدِ اصطَفَينٰهُ فِى الدُّنيا وَإِنَّهُ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ لَمِنَ الصّٰلِحينَ

2:132
Moreover, Abraham exhorted his children to do the same, and so did Jacob: "O my children, God has pointed out the Deen for you; do not die except as Muslimeen."
وَوَصّىٰ بِها إِبرٰهـۧمُ بَنيهِ وَيَعقوبُ يٰبَنِىَّ إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصطَفىٰ لَكُمُ الدّينَ فَلا تَموتُنَّ إِلّا وَأَنتُم مُسلِمونَ

I hope this clarifies for you my understanding of why I think the rites ,including "salat" have originated from Abraham.

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST

38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?

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Bender

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Re: A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2014, 08:50:39 AM »
Peace Bender.

Thank you once more.
Let me explain further, Why I think "salat" is part of the rites of "Millat" or " Deen"....of Abraham

2:124
Recall that Abraham was put to the test by his Lord, through certain commands, and he fulfilled them. (God) said, "I am appointing you an imam for the people." He said, "And also my descendants?" He said, "My covenant does not include the transgressors.
وَإِذِ ابتَلىٰ إِبرٰهـۧمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمٰتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قالَ إِنّى جاعِلُكَ لِلنّاسِ إِمامًا قالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتى قالَ لا يَنالُ عَهدِى الظّٰلِمينَ

2:127
As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.
وَإِذ يَرفَعُ إِبرٰهـۧمُ القَواعِدَ مِنَ البَيتِ وَإِسمٰعيلُ رَبَّنا تَقَبَّل مِنّا إِنَّكَ أَنتَ السَّميعُ العَليمُ

2:128
"Our Lord, make us Muslims to You, and from our descendants let there be a community of Muslims to You. Teach us the rites of our religion, and redeem us. You are the Redeemer, Most Merciful.
رَبَّنا وَاجعَلنا مُسلِمَينِ لَكَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِنا أُمَّةً مُسلِمَةً لَكَ وَأَرِنا مَناسِكَنا وَتُب عَلَينا إِنَّكَ أَنتَ التَّوّابُ الرَّحيمُ

2:130
Who would forsake the Millat of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.
وَمَن يَرغَبُ عَن مِلَّةِ إِبرٰهـۧمَ إِلّا مَن سَفِهَ نَفسَهُ وَلَقَدِ اصطَفَينٰهُ فِى الدُّنيا وَإِنَّهُ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ لَمِنَ الصّٰلِحينَ

2:132
Moreover, Abraham exhorted his children to do the same, and so did Jacob: "O my children, God has pointed out the Deen for you; do not die except as Muslimeen."
وَوَصّىٰ بِها إِبرٰهـۧمُ بَنيهِ وَيَعقوبُ يٰبَنِىَّ إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصطَفىٰ لَكُمُ الدّينَ فَلا تَموتُنَّ إِلّا وَأَنتُم مُسلِمونَ

I hope this clarifies for you my understanding of why I think the rites ,including "salat" have originated from Abraham.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Salaam,

Thanks for your analysis.
We can discuss this very long, but our methods and understandings are to different that a futher discussion will not be very fruitful I guess. And I think it is also off-topic.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen