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A challenge to those who claim Quran states 5 salat daily

Started by Wakas, December 25, 2013, 04:22:17 PM

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Earthdom

There is no gains for dispute about existence of alif,because the languages will get changes/updates one century to another.

Please check Al Mushaf Al Imam in : https://archive.org/details/Al-mushaf-Al-Imam
This Mushaf was collected by Khalifah Ustman and notice the alif-lam is exist in the word Kitab.


Wakas

peace all,

Quote from: Mazhar on December 31, 2013, 12:12:17 PM
Flaws? Please find one in that article about five timings; for convenience a graph is even given therein.

For reference:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605766.msg336182#msg336182


####

Along with the above, this thread, again, perfectly demonstrates the problems:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.msg1560#msg1560

I am confident anyone who supports 5 salat daily will inevitably run into these problems.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Mazhar

[url="http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm"]http://haqeeqat.pk/index.htm[/url]

good logic

Peace Wakas, Mazhar, all.

I take a different view from those you conversed with.

With all due respect, I disagree with Wakas also. My view of 5 salat daily has the following explanation:

We learn that our salat were confirmed in Quran. The elements that are dealt with in Quran are limited to the tone we use for prayer (17:110), the basic steps of ablution and dry ablution (5:6), shortening the prayers and praying at war (4:101-102), praying under unusual circumstances (2:239), the times or periods of our five daily salat (24:58, 17:78, 2:238, 11:114), how we must observe them regularly and within their designated time frames (70:34, 4:103),. Any details concerning our salat that are not mentioned in Quran have been guarded and preserved and this is logically why they didn't get to be repeated in Quran.

Muhammad, the believers from among his community and their descendants served as witnesses to pass down and guard our rites including our salat. However, history repeated itself. Few hundred years after Muhammad's departure, Muslims started to inject their idol worshiping beliefs into the salat and they have been explicitly violating 72:18 and 7:29 since then, dedicating their salat to their idols besides God. Following the unchangeable divine system of purifying and preserving our rites, God has sent another messenger, after a period of time, who purified and reconfirmed our salat to be devoted absolutely to God alone (5:19, 33:7, 3:81).

While  God's message to humanity is inviting the world to abandon idolatry, worship God alone, and follow the preserved and authenticated word of God in Quran, Satan is at work to nullify this . We have been hearing his whispers and witnessing his desperate attempts of spreading doubts about the manner in which we observe our salat. He has been also disputing the number, the perids, the times, and the order of our salat.
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Instead of feeling appreciative, content, and blessed we received and witnessed a messenger who purified and confirmed Quran, and put us back on the monotheistic path, some have been distracted by our ardent enemy. Despite the straightforward verses that spell out God's system of inheriting and preserving our rites, some have been caught up in the Satanic illusion that God would send a messenger to mislead the believers and pass down some wrong teachings in regard of salat- a precedent that DOES NOT exist in Quran. NO where in Quran we find a single example of a messenger who misguided the people or gave them wrong religious practices when their redemption relies on such practices. To the contrary, God assures the believers that His messengers are sent as a mercy to lead them out of darkness, assure their hearts, and teach them the rites to purify and redeem their souls (2:150-151, 14:4-5, 2:129, 3:164, 62:2, 9:103).

Believing in Quran mandates the belief in the words stated by God to teach us the above system of delivery, practice, inheritance, preservation, and confirmation of our rites through His messengers, His scriptures, and His witnesses. This system is a part of the complete, and perfect details of Quran. Ignoring this system, chosen and clarified by God, and hanging on personal wishes to argue about them after receiving God's guidance reflects our disbelief in the Quran, the lack of trust in its divinity, or the lack of trust in God and His systems.

I believe GOD sends messengers to confirm/clarify .

I hope this clarifies my view of 5 daily salat.

Peace to all

TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]

Wakas

peace good logic,

Quote from: good logic on January 11, 2014, 05:50:06 PM
I take a different view from those you conversed with.

The above is your claim but both Mazhar and Joseph use the same verses as you to claim 5 daily salat:

Quote from: good logic... the times or periods of our five daily salat (24:58, 17:78, 2:238, 11:114)...

In this thread I am only interested in the alleged 5 daily salat timings as per Quran, nothing else.

In this respect, it seems your view is either identical or differs only slightly. If I am wrong, I'd appreciate you highlighting exactly where you differ when it comes to the timings.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Scribbler

Quote from: Wakas on January 12, 2014, 06:31:51 AM
peace good logic,

The above is your claim but both Mazhar and Joseph use the same verses as you to claim 5 daily salat:

In this thread I am only interested in the alleged 5 daily salat timings as per Quran, nothing else.

In this respect, it seems your view is either identical or differs only slightly. If I am wrong, I'd appreciate you highlighting exactly where you differ when it comes to the timings.

Dear Wakas,


Peace be with you.


Can you kindly share where exactly is your objection against brother Mazhar and Joseph's understanding of the five timings?


Regards.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

Wakas

peace,

Quote from: Scribbler on January 12, 2014, 07:22:07 AM
Can you kindly share where exactly is your objection against brother Mazhar and Joseph's understanding of the five timings?

Yes, see a few posts back in this thread, reply #42.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.msg345794#msg345794
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. [url="http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/"]My articles[/url]

[url="//www.studyquran.org"]www.studyQuran.org[/url]

Scribbler

Quote from: Wakas on January 12, 2014, 07:33:16 AM
peace,

Yes, see a few posts back in this thread, reply #42.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.msg345794#msg345794

Dear brother Wakas,


May peace be with you.


I have read the lengthy discussion between you and Joseph. In my humble view, I can't seem to reject brother Joseph's understanding of the timings, and neither can I outright reject your arguments, and honestly speaking, anyone of you could be right. I have noted that brother Joseph justifies the five timings with an understanding which is 'indirect', and you seem to be looking for explicit mention of the five timings. I think it is best if we can establish the salat five times a day as opposed to two times, since the more you do it, the better it will be for one's soul, no? But depending on our ability and current circumstances, I would conclude that we should do it at least two times a day, and a maximum of five times a day.



Regards.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

good logic

Peace Wakas;

FIVE PRAYERS A DAY AND THEIR TIME :
I believe this is where God gave us the times for the Salat  in the Quran :

The Dawn salat (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
The Noon salat (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18
The Afternoon salat ( or middle ) (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
The sunset salt (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114
The Night salat (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58

Note: These are time periods ( not names  as some wrongly assume!!)of salat.

Peace to you
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?p=28[/url]