Author Topic: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......  (Read 7329 times)

Jafar

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4066
  • Karma +111/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2013, 02:40:25 PM »
After get more deeper discussion about tafseer Quran, play Arabic words with Indonesian and Malaysian Quranites, it seems I start to questioning Quran itself.Many fallacies, allegorical phrases which I see as a nonsense and it's imposibble if this is God's words.

Good, never stop questioning, a revelation starts with a question.
God's revelation can be delivered through any communication channel and it didn't stop 1300 years ago..

Quote
Currently I'm in agnostic state like Yuliana and I will post some refutation against Quran in this forum.
Waiting for your refutation..

Quote
If members in here capable against all my refutation and give proper answers, I will back to so called Islam maybe.

What do you mean by joining and leaving Islam? 
And why you feel the need to do as such?

Leave the sectarian mindset behind, that's my recommendation to you.
Learn from everything and everyone, God's sign is spread all over the universe.

Salam / Peace

Earthdom

  • Guest
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2013, 11:32:27 PM »
Peace all

But we cannot falsify the information because WE have problems to decipher the passages.

If we couldn't dechiper the passages, how we know that information is true or false.

I will create a thread bout this as long as my refutation solved.

Good, never stop questioning, a revelation starts with a question.
God's revelation can be delivered through any communication channel and it didn't stop 1300 years ago..

True
The problem now is who is God-god, what kind of god which I want to worship.

Quote
What do you mean by joining and leaving Islam? 

Just misswrote, I should wrote "leaving Quran" not "leaving Islam".
What kind of mine god in the future I will submit/ to Him/Her/Them



Jafar

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 4066
  • Karma +111/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2013, 11:40:39 PM »
Peace all

If we couldn't dechiper the passages, how we know that information is true or false.

I will create a thread bout this as long as my refutation solved.

True
The problem now is who is God-god, what kind of god which I want to worship.

Just misswrote, I should wrote "leaving Quran" not "leaving Islam".
What kind of mine god in the future I will submit/ to Him/Her/Them

The God who understand you better than yourselves.
The God whose will/policy/decision/law shall happened in the future as it is in the past.
(Take a glimpse of every event that has happened in your life, all of it is God's will)
The God who continue to give guidance to you and the rest of human being and He/It did not stop 1300 years ago in Arabia.


BornAgain

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 740
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2013, 02:23:09 AM »
Salaam,

Do tell, what will you gain from posting refutations against the Qur'aan? You gain nothing but making yourself feel good about yourself after you leave Islam. You're just trying to validate your own belief, that's all.

You want to stop believing in the Qur'aan? It does not bother me. Just don't go on a "jihad" mode trying to prove people wrong, because it looks like you're just insecure with your current state of belief.

I find it funny because you claim to find the Qur'aanic language to be incomprehensible. Well, guess what? Because you have not learnt the Classical Arabic language and you try to translate it straight to your own language. I have started learning Classical Arabic, and the Qur'aanic phrases is not inconsistent like you claim it is. I can understand some just fine,

?For peace of mind, we need to resign as general manager of the universe.?

?When you judge another you do not define them, you define yourself.?

?Time may heal physical pain but only love can heal emotional pain.?

?My life has been full of terrible misfortunes, most of which never happened.?

Earthdom

  • Guest
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2013, 05:36:30 AM »
Met malam BornAgain

Do tell, what will you gain from posting refutations against the Qur'aan?

I'm in study sis, study.Gain?? I want some answer to determine my movements afterward.
I dont want to debate, I just want some answers.This is free-minds right?? people from many religious background and perceptions can join this forum.

Look some members refute my methodology in my refutation thread.they forget if this is not Quranist forum anymore but free-minds.This is so why my thread turned to be off topic.

Quote
I find it funny because you claim to find the Qur'aanic language to be incomprehensible. Well, guess what? Because you have not learnt the Classical Arabic language and you try to translate it straight to your own language. I have started learning Classical Arabic, and the Qur'aanic phrases is not inconsistent like you claim it is. I can understand some just fine,

I'm also using dictionaries like Lane Lexicon and lisan ul Arab.
Translate to mine language in straight way?? C'mon you don't know me.

Not inconsistent but difficult to dechiper.

Classical Arab and modern still have same meaning mostly, just different in structure.Classical Arabic fussha (pattern) is more simple rather than modern Arab dialects.

To study many languages, we need three points : -Vocabularies
                                                                               -Pattern and formulas
                                                                                -Local dialects and pronouncations.

We cannot speak to the natives of the langauge if we just rely on vocabularies-dictionaries.

Jika ente ingin berdiskusi dengan saya lebih jauh pake bahasa, silahkan lewat PM, tenang aja ane gak tanya2 masalah pribadi/personal.
Ane juga gak bisa trus-trusan pake inggris, pusing di kepala ;D



tauhid101

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2013, 02:43:06 AM »
Shalom aleyhim

After get more deeper discussion about tafseer Quran, play Arabic words with Indonesian and Malaysian Quranites, it seems I start to questioning Quran itself.Many fallacies, allegorical phrases which I see as a nonsense and it's imposibble if this is God's words.

Currently I'm in agnostic state like Yuliana and I will post some refutation against Quran in this forum.

If members in here capable against all my refutation and give proper answers, I will back to so called Islam maybe.

Peace be within you, mas Earthdom

Waduuh, mas Earthdom, :o ;D banyak-banyak bersabar dan komitmen, dong.. dalam pencarian Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya daripada Yang Maha Esa sahaja. Lelaki yang dilantik sebagai Nabi juga menerima ajaranNya dalam masa yang panjang. :P

Sincerity to your own-self, not just to the Lord, is one of the criteria on that Straight Path. It is important that you acknowledge to yourself that you are still lacking the knowledge of His Truth. But that acknowledgement is to the Lord alone, not in a forum. Be confidence that you are being guided whenever you questions the Lord about the religion Islam and the Quran. Always ask for His protection, strength in patience and the wisdom He promises, we truly needed them, if and when you see, acknowledge and accept His Truth alone.

Think and reflect on the keyword, "He promises". He promises many things to all mankind whom He created, not just for those who follow the religion Islam. But what is your promise or covenant in return to Him alone? All of us, mankind, owed the Sovereign Lord, big time.

You have said that the One True God and your salvation is more important to you. Then allow me to ask you this question, who among all the God aloners, the articles and books written by men, the youtubes, and the discussions, debates and arguments in forums; who do you think can truly give you the true guidance, at the same time give you the light of Truth, and the living proof within your self? Who holds the Power and the Authority to all knowledge of the world and the Hereafter?

Allow me to add to your inquisitive mind a few more questions regarding the Lord and the Book of Truth. Who named the final book as Al-Quran/ the Reading, was it the Lord, or those men after the death of the last prophet? Was it the Lord who taught the last prophet to recite the book harmoniously in Arabic only without understanding what's in it, or was it those men who created the religion Islam? Was the Lord and His final Book all about the religion Islam? Was not the first purpose of the final Book, was to be a witness and confirmed the previous two Books only? Was the Lord and the final Book about reforming a religion created by men, or was it about reforming your own self because you are His creation? The direction of our life journey is, "we came from Him and to Him we will return, dust to dust and ashes to ashes". Do you truthfully know who you are from His knowledge of Truth?

This is one of the Gospel from the Lord which He taught the prophet Isa/Imanu-el, written down by Thomas, from the Nag Hammadi finds, think and reflect:

18:  The disciples said to Imanu-el/Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be." Imanu-el/Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

Does the Lord needed a religion, or any one else or any associate, to guide you alone on that Straight Path? I cannot make you or any one else, see and believe what I have written because most of His teachings are of the unseen and the Hereafter. His teachings and knowledge of Truth are about our self-development - our awareness of Him, the God-conscious, the mind; our sincerity, patience, our trust and faith in Him only, the heart. He alone holds that Power and Authority to purify and to establish (the zakat and the salat), because He is the Creator of all that can be seen and the unseen.

Peace and may the Lord blesses you with enlightenment. :pr
tauhid101

Earthdom

  • Guest
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2013, 08:19:55 AM »
Salam, Pak cik tauhid 101, pejabat dari negeri Jiran  ;D.Saya masih percaya adanya Tuhan, tapi mempertanyakan keabsahan Quran sebagai firman Dia.Saya akan terus mencari apa sistem yg diwariskan Tuhan kepada kita (entah Islam, Yahudi, Hindu dll).

I will keep pray to God, whathever He is Yang Maha Satu or not.I still became agnostic for a while.
I study Quran intensively for some month, indeed I found some what I to be considered as "fallacy".
It's hard to leave Islam even for a while, because it's my forefather's religion of course and I get dogmatic from it since born.

Quote
You have said that the One True God and your salvation is more important to you. Then allow me to ask you this question, who among all the God aloners, the articles and books written by men, the youtubes, and the discussions, debates and arguments in forums; who do you think can truly give you the true guidance, at the same time give you the light of Truth, and the living proof within your self? Who holds the Power and the Authority to all knowledge of the world and the Hereafter?

People's opinions is  my secundary, my primary is the Scripture of course, because it's from where the religion belong.
I don't belong to any sects or group, what I do now is just to find the truth by self-taught.

Quote
Who named the final book as Al-Quran/ the Reading, was it the Lord, or those men after the death of the last prophet?

Sorry I could not answer for this.Maybe some of intepretator using their speculation theories to answer this.

Quote
18:  The disciples said to Imanu-el/Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be." Imanu-el/Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

Apa bapak ni Kristen?
I also ever read Bible as well as apochripal books like Book of Thomas, Maria Magdalene.
Until now I still believe if Tanakh is more complete rather than Quran when explain anything.

God Bless u




tauhid101

  • Beginner/Inquirer
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2013, 02:28:34 AM »
Salam, Pak cik tauhid 101, pejabat dari negeri Jiran  ;D.Saya masih percaya adanya Tuhan, tapi mempertanyakan keabsahan Quran sebagai firman Dia.Saya akan terus mencari apa sistem yg diwariskan Tuhan kepada kita (entah Islam, Yahudi, Hindu dll).

Salam kembali, mas Earthdom

Iya..masih dalam masa Pejabat sekarang ini  ;D. Pentingnya kepercayaan terhadap kewujudanNya tidak terus hilang kerna banyak pusing  :P
Mungkin juga ada wujudnya sistem saintifik mahu pun sistem lain, tapi dari pengalaman yang sudah saya lalui lebih dari 20tahun membaca, belajar dan personal research, bagi saya sistem itu satu sahaja yang dinamakanNya Jalan Yang Lurus, seperti termaktub disurah pertama, iaitu antara diri sendiri dengan Tuhan sahaja. Apa yang sudah saya fahami, label2 tiga ugama yang wujud dari kitab2Nya hanya nama yang diberikan oleh golongan bani Israel yang berpecah belah.

I will keep pray to God, whathever He is Yang Maha Satu or not.I still became agnostic for a while.
I study Quran intensively for some month, indeed I found some what I to be considered as "fallacy".
It's hard to leave Islam even for a while, because it's my forefather's religion of course and I get dogmatic from it since born.

Yes its true that it is very hard to leave the religion which we were born into. It took me nearly 20 years not just to reject Islam, but also Christianity and Judaism. I don't belong to any sect, nor label myself in any way. I'm just one of the Lord's slaves, submitting to Him alone and humbly submissive to His Will, His faithful slave. That is what I will tell people whenever they asked me, hanya seorang hamba Tuhan. I was born into the religion Islam without the knowledge of His Truth.

Yes the name Al-Quran itself does not reflect the contents and purpose of the whole Book, it should had been named Al-Kitab Al-Haqq, the Book of Truth. The main purpose is to confirm and witnessed the previous two Books only. It is not to confirm and witnessed the sayings of men, the hadiths. No matter how much corruptions and distortions had been made to the Gospel, the Torah and the Book of Truth, they are still the Books from the Lord. The Torah does not belong to Moses and the Jews, the Gospel does not belong to Jesus and the Romans and the Greeks, and the Book of Truth does not belong to prophet Ahmad and the Arabs only. The Lord and all His Books are for all mankind because He is the Creator, the Sovereign Lord of all mankind.

Apa bapak ni Kristen?

Kok.. baru satu ayat dari Gospel dan omongan dalam bahasa Inggeris sudah dianggap Kristen?  :P :P ;D Saya hanya seorang hamba Tuhan Yg Maha Pengasih dan Maha Penyayang. Semoga mas Earthdom kuatkan semangat perjuangan mencari Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya, ya. The Truth and nothing but the Truth only.

Peace and may the Lord blesses you with enlightenment. :pr
tauhid101

Earthdom

  • Guest
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2013, 09:16:49 AM »
Salam sejahtera tauhid101.

Tiga a/ugama muncul karena alasan historis, agama Yahudi muncul karena adanya Talmud dan diambil dari suku Yehuda.Agama Kristen dibuat oleh Barnabas dan Paulus di Antiokhia.Kalo masalah nama "Islam", sebenarnya saya masih meneliti di dalam Quran terutama frase "Al ladeena 3inda Allahi al Islaaam" in 3:19.Ayat ni menunjukkan bahwa nama agama yg diotoritikan oleh Quran adalah "Islam".

Quote
Yes its true that it is very hard to leave the religion which we were born into. It took me nearly 20 years not just to reject Islam, but also Christianity and Judaism. I don't belong to any sect, nor label myself in any way. I'm just one of the Lord's slaves, submitting to Him alone and humbly submissive to His Will, His faithful slave. That is what I will tell people whenever they asked me, hanya seorang hamba Tuhan. I was born into the religion Islam without the knowledge of His Truth.

Yeah most of Borneo is Muslim.I was born and live in Java but I'm actually a Dayak from Kalimantan, cuma merantau ke Jawa.
For me religion is the ways/efforts to reach the God and salvation, hence it's ways have many kinds ( Islam, Hindhu, Christian etc).
Religion created when a Scripture intepreted, and differences of intepretation will result of sectarianism.
Now I just simply "God seeker", I want to know what kind of God-god yg layak untuk disembah and the way to know it is study many Scriptures.

Kok.. baru satu ayat dari Gospel dan omongan dalam bahasa Inggeris sudah dianggap Kristen?  :P :P ;D Saya hanya seorang hamba Tuhan Yg Maha Pengasih dan Maha Penyayang. Semoga mas Earthdom kuatkan semangat perjuangan mencari Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya, ya. The Truth and nothing but the Truth only.

Wkwkwkwk, maklum saya orang awam  ;D.
Kalau mau diskusi pake bahasa, lewat PM aja ga papa, I'm always be open minded.

Tuhan disanjung.


GODsubmitter

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1703
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2013, 01:32:21 PM »
God has no Religion!

God is running everything.

Peace begins with me.