Author Topic: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study  (Read 8463 times)

Man of Faith

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Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« on: November 14, 2013, 04:15:31 PM »
Salaam,

I do not often create new threads, but now I felt like I had to do it. I felt that the research I have conducted for several months must be reflected upon officially and I also have had one person, brother noshirk, actually agreeing that the Nazarene people of Qur'an is the Persians as well as partially supporting my theory. Certainly it is a work in progress and I have no conclusive evidence at all, but I decided that I have enough meat on my legs to make my philosophical thinking public.

Well, as the title of the thread suggests, I suspect that the Pharisees of the Bible are the Persians and that history as we know it is filled with falsehood. Many of the events of the Bible took place much further east than believed and certainly not in the state of Israel as we think today. I have no specific location to center events at and my studies seem to point at the region around the Persian Gulf (Khaliye Fars), and perhaps today's Iraq and Iran. It is important to know that the ancient city of Nineveh is located in today's Iraq near Mosul and which is frequently mention in the Bible. Apart from that, lots of locations from the Bible are beginning to be pinpointed from Iraq towards Iran, formerly Persia. Ecbatana, Iran, near today's Hamedan, I have found traces of importance from the past and that one place is also relatively close to the border to Iraq.

Obviously the Roman Empire spat out propaganda and also Christianity ate up the Roman Empire, so it is no wonder why history was hijacked and falsehood became widespread and the Greek sources might not be entirely truthful either. There is an interesting map allegedly drawn by a Greek historian named Herodotus, c. 484?425 BC, and Israel, the modern state of today, is not even on any of these maps I can link to while other obvious locations are and I doubt Jerusalem would be missing from a map like this if there was a big temple there and it carried a big importance and also considered Dariush and other Persian kings sponsored the rebuilding of the temple. Take a look at these two maps which the source suggests are written by Herodotus:




Obviously a person like this would know and mark locations such as Jerusalem and Israel even if he primarily reported on the Greco-Persian wars, link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Persian_Wars. See how little they knew about the surrounding world at this time even if they were historians. Note that Nineveh is marked on one of the maps. I have not missed that the region "Phaenicia" is marked on the map, but I doubt that will be of much value to the criticizers once I have got rolling. You need to observe that Persepolis is clearly marked on the map while it is officially said that Alexander the Great barely knew where Persepolis was located.

Certainly this is not all that I got and you will get more whenever I find more inspiration to write.

The king Herod the Great I think was Orodes I (c. 90 to 80 BC), Orodes II (57 to 38 BC) or Orodes III (2 BC ? AD 4) of Parthia (also called Hyrodes) and much of the information is likely biased by historical sources and not what it seems to be, but this part of the research has no stable foundation yet. Persian history decayed greatly during the years 1xxx to 2000 due to poor management of the state and I am sure if much of Iran's archeological discoveries were not just sold off cheaply and more research from this time was conducted in Iran then they would easily discover the flaws in the Roman or Greek history sources which our knowledge is much based upon.

Noteworty about Orodes III:

Quote
He was killed after a short reign "on account of his extreme cruelty"

But I am determined to investigate further on what knowledge I can get my hands upon and then unwind the truth, God willing, hopefully with the help from others. What I know for sure is that I do not trust the official story about what happened in this time at all and I take all I read with a grain of salt. We must know that there is always written "propaganda history" and ignorance has also often led to faulty observations. What I wrote above is only theories and whenever I have reached as far as I know for sure, then I will try to test my hypotheses, but until then also take what I have written as a work-in-progress.

Unfortunately I lack more time to write and it is late in the night, but I will try to keep this thread updated as I discover more important data.

God bless you
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GODsubmitter

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2013, 04:21:40 PM »
Interesting. Thank you.

It is always admirable to see serious study with solid proofs.

Peace
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Man of Faith

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2013, 04:54:32 PM »
Salaam brother,

I would not say that I have any "solid proof" yet, but I am very determined that the Pharisees is the group of people of Fars and that the Israel state of today is a fraud and just an occupation of the ancient people of Phillistines which are the Palestinians and one the archenemies of the Israeli state of ancient times which in my theory is Iraq and Iran. I am sure that Nineveh was part of it and even if Babylon was once a state on its own it was also part of the Israeli state of the past. Practically, I am sure that they had control over most of the areas around the Persian Gulf including the big river system seen at the inside end of the gulf.

I still need more evidence and I will probably meet many critical voices with this theory but to me it makes more sense than the traditional story.

Good night. Late here!

God bless you
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noshirk

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 09:56:11 AM »
salaam

No Herode in Palestine ?  No Pharisians in Palestine ? Not even a little crucification there ?
The hypothesis is shocking even for me.
But why not ?
There is many things to review.

He have not to forgot that ?christiannity? and last version of bible was ?officialised? by Emperor Constantin and His mother who made all ?archeological? discoveries needed in Palestine (325). There is an obvious  ?political motive? for romans to move events from region of the old Persian enemy to Palestine. It seems that many roman soldiers were impressed by Zoroastrianism (and mithra cult) when they were fighting with Persians.

In Judea, disillusion about ?messiah coming? in Palestine took place in fact after the Bar Kokhba revolt (year 136 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt ). It is from that date that christianism and Judaism was definitively separated in what we call Judea.
History of christianism until Constantin (325) is very troubled. In fact, actual christianism seems to have appeared in Rome, not in Palestine.
I never understood what are doing Popes in Rome since year 33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes).
It seems like if that someone, in Rome, decided to build a roman controlled religion to block a strange invading religion coming from the country of an old enemy.
Even greeks (aristote and so on) have been impressed by Persians religion.


Peace
noshirk=trying to never mix teachings of The unique Rabb with other teachings, and specially any kind of clerical teachings.

Man of Faith

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 10:54:11 AM »
Salaam,

Well. These scriptures were definitely highjacked by the Roman Empire who made it into a state religion of this Empire and the remnant of this are the pope. It was clearly used as a propaganda tool to keep the whole region under control. Perhaps Jupiter and co had no chance against the monotheism of Zoroastrianism and the Romans had to invent Christianity and to suppress the true religions from the Middle-East and the new threat of Muhammedans. Christianity is a product/trademark of the Roman Empire and the pope is a stubborn remnant of that. Jesus was a hijacked prophet from the Persians from documents found written in Greek, but I think they were not inventions although perhaps manipulated and mistranslated and likely not even originally written in Greek.

God bless you
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noshirk

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 11:12:30 AM »
Salaam,

Well. These scriptures were definitely highjacked by the Roman Empire who made it into a state religion of this Empire and the remnant of this are the pope. It was clearly used as a propaganda tool to keep the whole region under control. Perhaps Jupiter and co had no chance against the monotheism of Zoroastrianism and the Romans had to invent Christianity and to suppress the true religions from the Middle-East and the new threat of Muhammedans. Christianity is a product/trademark of the Roman Empire and the pope is a stubborn remnant of that. Jesus was a hijacked prophet from the Persians from documents found written in Greek, but I think they were not inventions although perhaps manipulated and mistranslated and likely not even originally written in Greek.

God bless you

Salaam Bro

Quran is here to say that a great part of Messiah History, as reported by christians, is true.
he came. He was rejected by bani israel. His mother is named Meriem/mary. she was a virgin dedicated to God. He made a dinner for his apostales. He raised the deaths...

I think that God saved part of truth among lies of shaytan. Sincere believers, whatever is their faith, are always able to establish a direct link with god if they succeed to avoid idolatry.

Peace
noshirk=trying to never mix teachings of The unique Rabb with other teachings, and specially any kind of clerical teachings.

Man of Faith

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 11:28:20 AM »
Salaam,

Not directly related to the topic, but found an interesting quote in some historical documents made by Plato assigning Zarathustra as son of Ahura Mazda. Can in some far-fetched way N-zara be linked to this Prophet of the Zoroastrians? It would also make Jesus/Issa = Zarathushtra.

Quote
He teaches the science of the Magians, owing to Zarathustra, son of Ahuramazda. It is in fact the worship of the gods.
[Ps.-Plato, Alcibiades 122A]

In other writings I am reading at the moment there are hints that there may have been two factions which have their own belief of who is a "son of God". There seems to have been certain disagreements on the topic of who was the "true son of God". I may be on the trail.

The scene of events seems to be around the inner part of the Persian Gulf, i.e. today's Iraq and (West-Southwest) Iran. The story is unwinding in midst of a lot of falsehood and misunderstandings. Interesting locations are Nineveh, Ur, Susa, Babylon, Ecbatana (today Hamedan), Persepolis (near Shiraz), Anshan, Nain (!) and a lot of other places I have searched. Abraham is even seeming to have been born in Ur and would from a traditional point of view have traveled from there to the illusive Israel relatively far away and back at least once with wife and all his possessions. One thing that leads him towards Israel is the mention of Canaan. Just Canaan I am doubtful that it refers to the lands near the Mediterranean Sea, not only because it is inhabited by the Phillistines who do not seem to be particularly friendly and are polytheistic.

Of course I still do not have any solid proof that it all happened around Babylon and Fars, but more leads hint towards this and I feel more confident the more history I delve into.

One of my mysteries is why the Persian kings funded and coordinated the construction of the second temple in Jerusalem and the Bible states that that was because God spoke/inspired them into doing the job, while the kings obviously were very soaked up by Zoroastrianism and felt that the construction of temples in Susa, Persepolis and Ecbatana were of high priority, not to mention that Jerusalem was very remotely located within the Persian Empire. I am not astonished that a righteous man, like it seems that Cyrus and Darius were according to historical sources, would heed the call of God and arrange the construction of a temple even if pretty far away and in a vulnerable location, but the records still do not make sense. Not to mention that the buildings of Persepolis and other temples within the Achaemenid Empire were constructed curiously identically as they boast Jerusalem was built in the Bible.

And Prophet Solomon has some spectacular similarities to some historical records of Kings of Persia and same goes for David. Especially Solomon controlled an enormous Empire-like region relatively similar to how the Empire of the Persians looked like and has extreme spoils and resources and was highly respected by neighbors and not to mention that Persepolis and Susa bear remarkable similarities. And any temple has never been found in today's Israel, only rumors and legends.

And as far as I can tell the Zoroastrians in the ancient past were monotheists even though they may have had religious practices strange to us, i.e. incense-burning, fire altars etc, but what is known about them today seem to be extra-religious practices much like in sectarian Islam although it is MONOTHEISM. Mankind has always suffered hard from conjecture and people follow it like lemmings.

Old Testament reflects ancient Zoroastrianism scarily close and it would be a very far-fetched coincidence if they were not the actual people who lived in today's Iran and Iraq. And my early research shows some signs that New Testament has locales able to be pinpointed. What many people do not seem to reflect upon is that much of the contents of the Bible takes place in today's Iraq and not in Israel of today, for example, Nineveh or Ur. If my theory is right very little if anything takes place in today's Israel. I think today's Israel was part of the Phillistines, which could be compared to the Palestinians today, a polytheistic and according to Bible pretty barbaric people. The Palestinians were archenemies of the Israelites back then, and also today funnily enough although they were just annexed somewhere out of the blue by the Brittish Empire anno 20th century into the current location.

God bless you
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noshirk

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 12:57:24 AM »
salaam man of faith
i support you in your research. Your knowledge about christianism and persia is very useful.

i am still studyng zoroastrianim. As brother Pazuzu would say, it is not obvious to separate there the grain from the chaff. I have new hypothesis, but i have to confront them to facts.

We have to remember that at era of "sister of aaron", we have at least 4 prophets at the same time: Moses, Aaron, Issa and Yahia. It was a very special era.

Peace
noshirk=trying to never mix teachings of The unique Rabb with other teachings, and specially any kind of clerical teachings.

noshirk

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2013, 01:39:20 AM »

In other writings I am reading at the moment there are hints that there may have been two factions which have their own belief of who is a "son of God". There seems to have been certain disagreements on the topic of who was the "true son of God". I may be on the trail.


salaam bro
can i have more details on this ?
what are the alternatives ? i suppose they are Mithra and Zarathustra ?
It seems that zoroasters had they trinity too (ahura mazda, mithra and Anahita).
i am interested in the "two factions" chiism.

peace
noshirk=trying to never mix teachings of The unique Rabb with other teachings, and specially any kind of clerical teachings.

عوني

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Re: Pharisees - Persians - A Research Study
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2013, 10:35:09 AM »
I doubt that the Palestinians were orginally the Philistines.

The Philistines were a non-semitic group(Obviously from Greece). DNA rather suggests that most Palestinians are descends of Canaanites/Israelites. The Israelites evolved from local Canaanites (archeological evidence).

"Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.[31]"

"In recent years, many genetic studies have demonstrated that, at least paternally, most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and the Palestinians ? and in some cases other Levantines ? are genetically closer to each other than the Palestinians or European Jews to non-Jewish Europeans.[108]"

"One DNA study by Nebel found genetic evidence in support of historical records that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".[108] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Muslim Palestinians and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, though with some significant differences that might be explainable by the geographical isolation of the Jews and by immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium.[108]"

"Much of the local Palestinian population in Nablus is believed to be descended from Samaritans who converted to Islam.[127] Even today, certain Nabulsi surnames including Muslimani, Yaish, and Shakshir among others, are associated with a Samaritan origin.[127]"


Palestinian villagers especially in Northern Palestine for hundreds of years and until today use the name Cana?an for their children and many have it as a surname. Second, designs on the cloths of villagers (the folkloric symbols) are canaanitic symbols (and are shared by location and by locals who are both Christian and Muslim).


e.g this brilliant Palestinian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawfiq_Canaan


"Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis ((Palestinian 1948)) and Palestinians, together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized."American Academy for the Advancement of Science."