Attack on Pork Pillar of Islam

[noshirk]

Pork pillar of islam is one of the strangest prescriptions of Allah. There is absolutely no reason given in quran for that interdiction.
Pork is eaten by many people in the world and whatever scholars says, it seems that there is no particular disease linked to Pork.

Origins of the interdiction:

3:93 All the food was made lawful to the Children of Israel except what Israel forbade for himself before the Torah was sent down. Say: ?Bring the Torah and recite it if you are truthful.?


17:2 And We gave Moses the Book and We made it a guidance for the Children of Israel: ?Do not believe in any besides Me.?
17:3 The progeny of (who/those whom ?) We carried with Noah, he was a thankful servant.

It seems obvious from these verses, that:
-   The religious fabulist, Mister Israel is the origins of all stupid religious alimentary interdictions in the torah and that Israel was living at least in era of Noah.
-   The alimentary interdictions was included in torah as punishment by God to Bani Israel

At this point, we could deduce that Pork pillar interdiction in islam is a kind of memorial raised to the sin of Mister Israel and childs.
But is it reasonable that God is influenced in his laws by what a fabulist legislate?


Issa intervention

3:48 And He teaches him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Injeel.
3:49 And as a messenger to the Children of Israel: ?I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; that I create for you from clay the form of a bird, then I blow into it and it becomes a bird with the permission of God, and I heal the blind and the lepers, and give life to the dead with the permission of God, and I prophesize for you what you shall eat and what to store in your homes. In that is a sign for you if you are believers.?
3:50 ?And authenticating what is between my hands of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was made unlawful to you; and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so be aware of God and obey me.?

Here, we are informed that Issa make lawful some of what was not lawfull to Bani Israel.
The Messiah, in Arabic, come from root masaha wich mean erase. We know from quran, that Meriem, his mother, was sister of Harun and then Moses was Uncle of Issa.
So, alimentary punishment for Bani Israel did not last long. It concerns only one generation and stayed only for those who reject the messih.

Whatever be the teachings given by God to Issa, it seems obvious that his followers, whatever be, haven?t the pork interdiction in their laws. It is obvious that life of Jesus is inspired from the true Issa and that nor Christians, nor Zoroasters, nor Buddhists have such interdiction.

So, if Issa make Pork lawful (wich is not sure because of word ?some? in 3-50), why did we find again this interdiction in Quran, if the Eraser erased for bani Israel the sin of their ancestor ?


Pork in Arabia
One of the strangest aspects of this interdiction is that it concerns a kind of food we don?t find in Arabia.
Of course, Allah know that porks and boars exists, but what about mister Israel who probably lived in yemen ?

Since people in Arabia in those era have never seen a pork or a boar,  it is logical to suppose that first people who heard the word ?khanzir? didn?t knew to what animal it corresponds. They probably never saw such an animal in their life.

Does khanzir always means ?an animal? in quran ?

5:60 Say: ?Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes (qirada) and pigs(khanazir) and servants of Taghut. Those have a worse place and are more astray from the right path.?.

Unless we suppose that god refers to a ?magical transformation?, and that now, apes and pigs are now spiritually  astray from the right path, it seems that qirada and khanazirs have metaphorical/allegorical meaning for kinds of ?bad-believers?, who serves ?Taghut?.

Far ago, I posted about Taghut. It is the highest level of taghy, wich is disobeying to God. The highest level of disobeying is if course lying and legislating in name of God. What Chaytan likes to do

Khanazir and qirada in arabic dictionaries
Qird is known as ape/monkey (I don?t know etymology of words monk and monkey).

Root Qrd, in arabic point to a meaning of something both grouped and dispersed (religious meaning is obvious). Meaning of intermixed.
Qrd has other meaning for a man who is ?crawling along the ground by panic and humiliation.


Root of khanzir seems to be khzr.
Khzr root points to two things:
1-   a kind of food base en meal/flour and  fat/greasiness means to look. It is funny to note that yathrib, the holy city of actual islam, has also meaning of greasiness. Arabs used to mock people who eat khzr. Khzr is then a kind of food arab used to eat at the contrary of untraceable pigs/boars of Arabia.
2-   A narrowed thing. From this meaning, we obtain the meaning of looking with the back of the eyes (sorry for my English). A khinzir man is a man who sees by darkening the eyebrows. Seeing by narrowing eyes. Quite the opposed meaning of word hoor traduced by ?virgins of paradise? by ?scholars?.

It is funny to note that khzr is, in arabic, the exact name of khazarians people who represents actually the false descent of Mister Israel and who are ?looking with/thanks to narrowed eyes? to land their ancestors never put their feet on.

What is forbidden in Quran is lahm of khinzir.
Lahm root have meaning of something intermixed. It is from that that derive the meaning of flesh/meat. Yalhimou still have the meaning, nowadays, of   ?welding/braze? in the metallurgic field.

Lahm can also applied to vegetal field. Molhim can be used for example to planting when wheat appears.

This joins the spiritual and vegetal allegory of the forbidden tree of zaqqum, full of heads of chayatins, we don?t have to eat. That is the tree of lies about god, brazed by narrowed eyes people.
It is for eating from that tree that we have been all expulsed from paradise.

Conclusion
El Hamdu lillah, I have no more ?khinzir? pillar in my deen. I don?t eat from what khanazirs assembled and no more eats with them.

However, I ask god to wait a little before I can eat again ham and bacon.

Peace

[Timur]

Peace noshirk,

very interesting. Can you please explain in plain terms what exactly you think lahm of khinzir means in the context of 2:173, 5:3, 6:145, 16:115? A simple english translation would be helpful.

[noshirk]

Salaam Timur

lahm khinzir can mean: what "narrowed eyes" assembled/earned.
i am not s?re but it can mean:
don't eat with them
and it is very possible for me that the meaning is fully spiritual like the tree of zaqqum and the tree from wich Adam have eaten. It is very possible that it is not a alimentary interdiction.

2:35 And We said: ?O Adam, reside you and your "zawj"in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not come near this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged.?

if we read this by narrowed eyes, we can see an alimentary interdiction.

17:60 And when We said to you: ?Your Lord has encompassed the people.? And We did not make the vision that We showed you except as a test for the people, and the tree that was cursed in the Qur?an. And We are making them fearful, but it only increases their transgression.

Where is the cursed tree now ?
The cursed tree is, i think, the tree of chaytan who, we know, can act only by lies.
lahm el khinzir and the supposed apple of adam is, i think, the same thing.

peace

[noshirk]

Salaam All

Whatever shocking is my post, il would like to add some remarks

in Hebrew, the word retained for pig is khazeer (khazeera form a female pig).
look here : http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/2386.htm

it is interesting to note that the noun disappears and that we fall exactly on the arabic  pronunciation of the old arabic food based on flour and greasiness.

Khazeer seems to be yiddish word (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish_words_used_in_English ?) and point also, besides pig,  to junk food.
it is a kind of other "link" to khazaria, mother country of askhenaze people.
It is interesting also to note that scientits seems to indicate that pig domestication seams to be appeared in 10500 BC, in that area (turkey).

the french naturalist Buffon said that "Islamic proselytizing failed in China for the people's love of pork". Chinese are "narrowed eyes" people, in the biological meaning and not the spiritual or intellectually meaning.
In a sense, Pork stopped islamic expansion.

Finally, i am not ready yet to eat pork. However i don't like to have this pillar in my deen simply beacuse totally arbitrary interdiction is not  an usual pratice of my god.

I don't know how first "muslims" understood the word "khinzeer" if they haven't  seen this animal before. I don't know if word khinzir can be found in pre-islamic era in arabia and if the "polytheists" used to eat pigs and boars.

The more interesting remark is that according to 3:93, khinzeer was forbidden by torah.
That simply mean that  Abraham, Ismael, Lot, Isaac, Jacob , Youssef, Noah and so on didn't have this pillar in their deen.
How can pork be a pillar in our deen then ?.
How can we be millat Ibrahim ?

35:43 Arrogance on the earth, and evil scheming. And the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Were they expecting anything different from the ways used on the people of the past? You will not find any change in the way of God, and you will not find any bypass to the way of God.

Pork pillar contradicts clearly sunnato Allah.

Peace

[GODsubmitter]

Very interesting indeed...

[Pazuzu]

Salam, noshirk.

Root of khanzir seems to be khzr.

Are you certain of this? I was under the impression that the root is the verb "kh-n-z"  خنز , which can mean something that is rotten or filthy (or has become so as a result of human intervention or tampering). So here we have a possibility that the word does not designate a particular species of animal, but a description of a wide range of animals or meat that is no longer pure to be consumed. Maybe it denotes those animals that are filthy (whether by their very nature, or because of the way they have been reared or domesticated). For instance, the meat of a hyena would be considered "khanzeer", because it is a scavenger that feeds on carrion (it eats dead animals). Likewise, cockroaches, rats and vulture birds can also fit under this category.

As for the domestic pig (swine), it all depends on how the animal is reared and how clean its environment is. That said, I don't believe that pigs are filthy by nature, as there is no scientific proof for this (never mind the pseudo-science that the Muslims often boast of, to prove the "miraculous" nature of the Quran).

Regards.

[huruf]

Pigs eat anything, even people.

[noshirk]

salaam brother pazuzu

i am not a linguist but i took all what i said from dictionnary

خنز (مقاييس اللغة)
الخاء والنون والزاء كلمةٌ واحدةٌ من باب المقلوب، ليست أصلاً. يقال خَنِزَ اللحم خَنَزاً، إذا تغيَّرَتْ رائحتُه وخَزِن.
وقد مَضَى.

so khnz means more rotten than filthy
however  adding a Ra to root is not usual. 

Adding a Noun is.
Khinzeer is "on weight" fanaala. that is from root khzr

other entry
خنزر (لسان العرب)
...
وخنزير: موضع ذكره لبيد: بالغُرابات فَزَرَّافاتِها، فبخنْزِيرٍ، فأَطْرَافِ حُبَلْ وقال بعضهم: خَنْزَرَ الرجلُ إِذا نظر بمؤخر عينه، جعله فَنْعَلَ من الأَخْزَرِ، وكل
...
وقال كراع: هو من الخَزَرِ في العين لأَن ذلك لازم له، قال: فهو على هذا ثلاثي؛ وقد تقدم ذكره في ترجمة خزر.
وخَنْزَرَ فَعَلَ فِعْلَ الخنزير.

other entry

الخَنْزَرَةُ (القاموس المحيط)
...
والخِنْزيرُ: في خ ز ر. 

خزر (لسان العرب)
والخِنْزِيرُ من الوحش العادي معروف، مأْخوذ من الخَزَرِ لأَن ذلك لازم له؛



there is also a very funny coincidence for the khayzuran derivate of khzr

Salam brother and sisters,

I've come across some claims online (by Dr Shabbir Ahmed, and others) that in the year 773 AD, Al-Khayzuran bint Atta الخيزران بنت عطاء‎ the zoroastrian mother of both Caliphs Al-Hadi, and Harun al-Rashid هارون الرشيد‎ (the most famous of the Abbasids) blended 5 Zoroastrian Namaz rituals in Islam and validated that forgery by forging hadith of Mi'raaj and the 50 rituals/per day absurdity! It is said that the Persian Imams of the time got strong support from Khaizraan who was, in turn, vehemently helped by Harun's Zoroastrian viziers, the BARAMIKA. So, she's believed to be the one who "canonized" NAMAZ according to the desires of the Criminal Imams in 153 A.H. (773 CE). Her main philosopher was Imam Al-Khalil ibn Ahmad Tabrezi, the first ever writer of Arabic to Persian dictionary, AL-'AIN.


1- Dawn prayer: Havaan = Fajr
2- Noon prayer: Rapithwan = Dhuhr
3- Afternoon prayer: Uziren = A'ssr
4- Evening prayer: Aiwisuthrem = Maghrib
5- Night prayer: Ushaen = Ishae

The 5 daily rituals (contact prayers) have abviously been taken from Zoroastrianism and incorporated into Islam by the Persian Parsi Imams. Heck! They even kept the same timings for all 5 Namaz/Salawat!

Al-Khayzuran bint Atta (died 789 CE) is described as a woman of strong personality. She persuaded her husband (Abbasid Caliph Al-Mahdi) to appoint her sons as the next caliphs over his sons from his other wives. At the court, she was an ally of the Barmakids. She greatly influenced both her sons and the affairs of the empire to the extent that her son Al-Hadi tried to kill her by poisoning her. She was suspected of involvement in his death. Al-Khayzuran is believed by many literary historians to be a key influence on Scheherazade, the main character in 1001 Nights.


Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal is reported to have been flogged by Harun and later by his son Mamun; for he supposedly insisted that the Qur'an was GHAIR MAKHLOO9 (non-creation). However, it was too trivial a debate. Hanbal got flogged because he saw and opposed the Persian NAMAZ (GEH) being incorporated into Islam. Another point of interest would be: KHAIZRAAN spent a fortune on her project and distributed one million gold coins and 165 million coins of pure silver among her subjects to propagate the 'canonized' NAMAZ.


Some of the relevant references about "Khaizran", the "Baramikah", the "Imams" and the contriving of today's NAMAZ:

- "Haroon wa Baramikatil Faras" (Arabic) by Sheikhul Ifta Salman bin Abu Qasim Baghdadi. Vol 1 pg 31-55
- "Meezan-il-Faris" (Persian) by Hujjatullah Abdul Qadir Ali Al-Moosvi pg 249-261
- "Takmilatil Lughatal 'Ain" 'Urfa (Arabic) by Al-Ustaz Jalaluddin Al-Ash'ari on Imam Al-Khalil ibn Ahmad Tabrezi vol 2 pg 3-5
- "Mujahid Al-Munafiq Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal" (Arabic) by Mullah Ali Al-Qari, pg 67-135

It would be interesting to know your positions on this theory.

SLM

Peace

[Jafar]

Salam, noshirk.


Are you certain of this? I was under the impression that the root is the verb "kh-n-z"  خنز , which can mean something that is rotten or filthy (or has become so as a result of human intervention or tampering). So here we have a possibility that the word does not designate a particular species of animal, but a description of a wide range of animals or meat that is no longer pure to be consumed. Maybe it denotes those animals that are filthy (whether by their very nature, or because of the way they have been reared or domesticated). For instance, the meat of a hyena would be considered "khanzeer", because it is a scavenger that feeds on carrion (it eats dead animals). Likewise, cockroaches, rats and vulture birds can also fit under this category.

As for the domestic pig (swine), it all depends on how the animal is reared and how clean its environment is. That said, I don't believe that pigs are filthy by nature, as there is no scientific proof for this (never mind the pseudo-science that the Muslims often boast of, to prove the "miraculous" nature of the Quran).

Regards.

I agree on this.
Rats contaminated with "Yersinia Pestis" (a species of Bacteria) is certainly not saved to be consumed (or even touched).
This has caused over 100 million of death across Middle East and Europe circa 13-14th century.

And so does Cow / Cattle with Anthrax
Or Bird / Chicken with Avian Influenza.
Or Cabbage with high amount of insecticide

Salam / Peace

[Man of Faith]

Salaam,

This sounds interesting. But do investigate carefully and do not jump to conclusions.

God bless you