Author Topic: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?  (Read 4217 times)

Scribbler

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Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« on: September 16, 2013, 05:37:37 AM »
Dear readers,


May peace be upon you all.


After going through many of the threads of this forum, I've learnt that people regularly assert that we cannot mention prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in our salat because salat is only for God according to the following verses:

6:162
Say, My prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are all for God, the Lord of the worlds.

20:14
I am God. There is no deity save Me; so worship Me alone, and say your prayers in My remembrance.


With respect, I don't agree with this understanding, although I follow the Quran alone.


Hardly anyone would argue that we cannot recite verses from the Quran in our salat. Therefore, what if I recite this verse:

O our Lord! cover (us) with Thy forgiveness - me, my parents, and (all) believers, on the Day that the Reckoning will be established! (14:41)


If I recite the above Quranic prayer in my salat (there are many other Quranic prayers like this), then I'm clearly mentioning about myself, my parents, and other believers. So does this mean I'm violating 6:162 and 20:14? I don't think so.


Therefore, the verses (6:162, 20:14) are not enough evidence to conclude that if anyone mentions prophet Muhammad or prophet Jesus or any other prophet or messenger (pbut) in their salat, then the person is going against the Quran, or that the person is setting up a partner beside Allah.



Please share your thoughts whether you agree or disagree with my understanding.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

Bender

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 06:34:50 AM »
Dear readers,


May peace be upon you all.


After going through many of the threads of this forum, I've learnt that people regularly assert that we cannot mention prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in our salat because salat is only for God according to the following verses:

6:162
Say, My prayer and my sacrifice and my life and my death are all for God, the Lord of the worlds.

20:14
I am God. There is no deity save Me; so worship Me alone, and say your prayers in My remembrance.


With respect, I don't agree with this understanding, although I follow the Quran alone.


Hardly anyone would argue that we cannot recite verses from the Quran in our salat. Therefore, what if I recite this verse:

O our Lord! cover (us) with Thy forgiveness - me, my parents, and (all) believers, on the Day that the Reckoning will be established! (14:41)


If I recite the above Quranic prayer in my salat (there are many other Quranic prayers like this), then I'm clearly mentioning about myself, my parents, and other believers. So does this mean I'm violating 6:162 and 20:14? I don't think so.


Therefore, the verses (6:162, 20:14) are not enough evidence to conclude that if anyone mentions prophet Muhammad or prophet Jesus or any other prophet or messenger (pbut) in their salat, then the person is going against the Quran, or that the person is setting up a partner beside Allah.



Please share your thoughts whether you agree or disagree with my understanding.


Salaam,

I think, one should make a clear destinction between prayer and sallaat.
As per my current understanding a prayer is always a sallaat but a sallaat does not have to be a prayer.
I understand sallaat as something like "commitment". There are a lot of different "commitments" and prayer is one of them.
InshaAllah if you can see this destinction then veses like 9:5 and 9:11 will be more clear for you.

RED: There are verses in The Quran that you can use for your prayer, I think the verses which begin with "Rabbi" or "Rabbana" are nice verses for ones prayer IF he/she knows what he/she is asking Allah. Just reciting them without knowing what you are saying is pointless.
And I think there are verses that one can never use in his prayer 20:14 is an example of such a verse.

I do not understand from where people got the understanding that we can not mention others in our prayer? I did not find any Quranic evidence for this.
I think this misunderstanding  is a result of misunderstanding the verses of The Quran.
We call on NO ONE else besides Allah in our prayer, simply because other "gods" will never hear you or bring you any benifit or harm you, please take a look at these verse:

26:71 They said: "We worship statues; thus we stay devoted to them."
26:72 He said: "Do they hear you when you call to them?"
26:73 "Or do they benefit you or harm you?"
26:74 They said: "No, but we found our fathers doing the same."
26:75 He said: "Do you see that which you have been worshipping."
26:76 "You and your fathers of old."
26:77 "They are enemies to me, except for the Lord of the worlds."


a little bit later Ibrahim has this prayer:

26:83 "My Lord, grant me authority and join me with the good doers."
26:84 "And give me a tongue that is true for those who will follow."
26:85 "And make me of the inheritors of gardens of bliss."
26:86 "And forgive my father, for he was of those misguided."
26:87 "And do not disgrace me on the Day when they are resurrected."


As you can see, he is calling ONLY Allah in his prayer but he mentions also others in his prayer.

Wrong would be to say this: "My Lord and Mohammed, grant me authority..."

Salaam,
Bender


Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

nonplus

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 07:10:07 AM »
I think we need to examine the purpose first.

Why do you feel the need to mention anyone else?

mmkhan

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 07:15:27 AM »

Salaam,

I think, one should make a clear destinction between prayer and sallaat.
As per my current understanding a prayer is always a sallaat but a sallaat does not have to be a prayer.
I understand sallaat as something like "commitment". There are a lot of different "commitments" and prayer is one of them.
InshaAllah if you can see this destinction then veses like 9:5 and 9:11 will be more clear for you.

RED: There are verses in The Quran that you can use for your prayer, I think the verses which begin with "Rabbi" or "Rabbana" are nice verses for ones prayer IF he/she knows what he/she is asking Allah. Just reciting them without knowing what you are saying is pointless.
And I think there are verses that one can never use in his prayer 20:14 is an example of such a verse.

I do not understand from where people got the understanding that we can not mention others in our prayer? I did not find any Quranic evidence for this.
I think this misunderstanding  is a result of misunderstanding the verses of The Quran.
We call on NO ONE else besides Allah in our prayer, simply because other "gods" will never hear you or bring you any benifit or harm you, please take a look at these verse:

26:71 They said: "We worship statues; thus we stay devoted to them."
26:72 He said: "Do they hear you when you call to them?"
26:73 "Or do they benefit you or harm you?"
26:74 They said: "No, but we found our fathers doing the same."
26:75 He said: "Do you see that which you have been worshipping."
26:76 "You and your fathers of old."
26:77 "They are enemies to me, except for the Lord of the worlds."


a little bit later Ibrahim has this prayer:

26:83 "My Lord, grant me authority and join me with the good doers."
26:84 "And give me a tongue that is true for those who will follow."
26:85 "And make me of the inheritors of gardens of bliss."
26:86 "And forgive my father, for he was of those misguided."
26:87 "And do not disgrace me on the Day when they are resurrected."


As you can see, he is calling ONLY Allah in his prayer but he mentions also others in his prayer.

Wrong would be to say this: "My Lord and Mohammed, grant me authority..."

Salaam,
Bender

Salaam,

I agree with Bender on what he wrote. :handshake:

A question for Scribbler:
How do you want to use any messenger's name in your Salaat? Please give me few examples.


May Allah bless you :pr
mmKhan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51

Jafar

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 08:18:47 AM »
Dear readers,


May peace be upon you all.


After going through many of the threads of this forum, I've learnt that people regularly assert that we cannot mention prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in our salat because salat is only for God according to the following verses:

What's being said or not said in a communication between you and your maker (or your 'father' using Jesus lingo).
Is your own business.
If you feel good mentioning some names, any names.. go ahead..

Salam / Peace

Man of Faith

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 11:12:38 PM »
Fare thee well,

It is perfectly okay to mention names in prayers if they are not part of belief that the mentioned people are superior and rather part of a supplication in the prayer, ie free speak after some glorification. But for any prayer "ritual" or direct prayer element I deem it inappropriate to mention any other names than God's and there is no reason for it either.

God alone is the goal of the religion and we should keep it that way. God is our master and Him do we seek for help and guidance.

God bless you
Website reference: http://iamthatiam.boards.net

Zulf

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 12:16:14 AM »
I think we need to examine the purpose first.

Why do you feel the need to mention anyone else?

 :bravo:
If you name me, you negate me.

Bender

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 03:44:32 AM »
Salaam,

I agree with Bender on what he wrote. :handshake:

May Allah bless you :pr
mmKhan

Salaamun alayka bro,

yes me too  :handshake:


salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Scribbler

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 04:23:55 AM »
Salamun Alaikum, everyone.

Thanks for your replies.


Salaam,

I agree with Bender on what he wrote. :handshake:

A question for Scribbler:
How do you want to use any messenger's name in your Salaat? Please give me few examples.


May Allah bless you :pr
mmKhan


Brother mmkhan,


Maybe I can pray to God in my salat to guide me or keep me guided to the creed of prophet Abraham (pbuh), which was also followed by prophet Muhammad (pbuh) according to 16:123. So here I?m mentioning Abraham and Muhammad (pbut).


Please note the following verses:


37:108-111
And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times: "Peace be upon Abraham!". Thus indeed do We reward those who do right. Indeed, he was one of Our believing Servants.


37:078-80
And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times: Peace be upon Noah! among the worlds. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right. Indeed, he was one of Our believing Servants.

37:119-122
And We left for both of them among generations (to come) in later times: "Peace be upon Moses and Aaron!". Thus indeed do We reward those who do right. Indeed, both of them (were) of Our believing Servants.

37:129-132
And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times: "Peace be upon Elias!". Thus indeed do We reward those who do right. Indeed, he was one of Our believing Servants.


37:181
And Peace be upon the messengers!


So according to the above verses, I can send the salutation of peace upon the prophets and messengers of Allah in their remembrance and out of love and emotion without making any distinction between them, who worked really hard and strove in the path of God, and who went through many problems and difficulties in their lives.


So these are some of the examples.
Turn to Allah before you turn to ashes.

Mazhar

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Re: Can't we mention any God's messenger in our salat?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 05:54:25 AM »
Quote
So according to the above verses, I can send the salutation of peace upon the prophets and messengers of Allah in their remembrance and out of love and emotion without making any distinction between them, who worked really hard and strove in the path of God, and who went through many problems and difficulties in their lives.

So these are some of the examples.



Indeed those people who keep refusing to accept Allah the Exalted and His Messengers;

And indeed those people who intend that they might create a middle path partitioned between that of Allah the Exalted and His Messengers *;

And indeed those people who say: "We believe in some part of revelation and we refuse to accept some of it", while they intend that they might self adopt a path in between it.  [4:150]

These three types of people are truly those who are the established and proven non believers.

Know it; We have prepared a humbling chastisement, one of humiliation for persistently denying people. [4:151]

Grammatical parsing and translation4:150-151