What is Islam?

[David Saidi]

Peace be upon you

First sorry to accuse you for being an atheist.

First your presentation is magnificient, you tried to define God's teaching by intellectual remarks.
But as Muhammad Itani said, your intepretation of the Quran still diverted and often highly traditional Ahadith influence.
Plus you gave the wrong ways for using the Arabic words.

Example :

Standing         South.. Fire.. Energy / Motivation / Direction . . . (hablum minallah)
Ruku         West.. Air.. Communication / Relationship . . . (hablum minannas)
Sitting         East... Water... Knowledge / Expertise . . . (hablum minannas)
Prostration         North.. Earth... Humble / Persistence . . . (hablum minallah)

I believe what you mean standing, ruku, sitting and prostation is the part of salat.

Hablum minnanas = relations between humans
Hablum mimallah  = relations between humans and their Deity.

I believe salat is hablum minallah not hablum minannas.

Plus there are some interestings

There is no evidence in the Quran
that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah

Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

Iblees is "Allah Alone"
"He refused and he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers" (2:34)
Because Iblees is trying to outsmart Allah's command.

Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

Okay, and yes, I don't believe in God/god... because I believe the Quran.

I don't understand what you mean, please explain

[muslims]

Peace be upon you

First sorry to accuse you for being an atheist.

First your presentation is magnificient, you tried to define God's teaching by intellectual remarks.
But as Muhammad Itani said, your intepretation of the Quran still diverted and often highly traditional Ahadith influence.

No need to say sorry
I'm an atheist.. and a Sunni, and also a Shia.
Therefore, I follow the hadith, and all religious books from other religions.

no "religion" has a monopoly on truth and believe it or not, we are all those things, at one time or another.

and because, it is a "religion"

. . .

Plus you gave the wrong ways for using the Arabic words.

Example :

I believe what you mean standing, ruku, sitting and prostation is the part of salat.

Hablum minnanas = relations between humans
Hablum mimallah  = relations between humans and their Deity.

I believe salat is hablum minallah not hablum minannas.

No, that's not what I mean....

The following is just a philosophical statement from wudhu and salat.

. . .

Plus there are some interestings

Iblees was ordered to sujud to Adam but he refused and made a pledge if he will mislead the humans.

Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

. . .

I don't understand what you mean, please explain

Allah is not God/god

          Say, "He is Allah , One
          Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
          He neither begets nor is born
          Nor is there to Him any equivalent
          112:1-4

[muslims]

Main
Previous Assignment

TO-DO LIST : Al-Qalam

Theme: Do not follow the liars, who distorting Allah's rules and judge not according the Quran.

COMMAND

Be patient on the straight path. (68:48)
Quran is a reminder for the worlds. (68:52)


PROHIBITION

Do not obey the deniers (lie, distort, invent or disobey Allah's commands/prohibitions etc). (68:8 )
ie. Primarily those who are lowly swearer, a slanderer, a backbiter, forbidder of charity, a transgressor, a sinner, the unappreciative, and greedy. (68:10-13)


LIKE

Strive for a high moral character. (68:4)


DISLIKE

Do not strayed off from Allah's path. (68:7)
Allah's revelations are not "Fictional tales of old!" (68:15)
Do not lie or distorting Allah's rules and turn the submitter into criminals. (68:35-41)

[David Saidi]

Therefore, I follow the hadith, and all religious books from other religions.

45:6 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do
they believe?

77:50 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?

Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

Therefore, Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

No verses said this.

Allah is not God/god

Allah is God in english while god is ilah, rabb in Arabic.

Allah = Al + Ilah, the Deity of milat Abraham (Abraham monotheism).
The proof is Christian and Judaic Arab also used the word "Allah".

http://www.copticchurch.net/cgibin/bible/index.php?r=Psalm%2050:2,23&version=SVD&showVN=1

That is Psalm in Arabic and notice the word "Allah" in there.

[muslims]

45:6 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do
they believe?

77:50 So in what narrative (hadith), after it, will they believe?

Hadith = narrations, stories, sayings . Quran is God's hadith and no one else even the Bible you see.

What is the context of the whole Quran?

Do you follow the man-made law?

Does it sound reasonable to disobey the man-made law?

No verses said this.

         to Him have submitted [all] those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

Where is Iblees?

Therefore, it is very clear and it includes, Iblees...

Allah is God in english while god is ilah in Arabic.

Allah = Al + Ilah, the Deity of milat Abraham (Abraham monotheism).
The proof is Christian and Judaic Arab also used the word "Allah".

http://www.copticchurch.net/cgibin/bible/index.php?r=Psalm%2050:2,23&version=SVD&showVN=1

That is Psalm in Arabic and notice the word "Allah" in there.

This is also very clear..

          Say, "He is Allah , One
          Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
          He neither begets nor is born
          Nor is there to Him any equivalent
          112:1-4

Therefore, how many God/god(s) that you know?
Obviously it is a "duality concept"..
ie. "equivalent" to the same category of "God/god(s)"

But it is okay because Allah introduce Himself as God to those who are only understand the concept of Godliness
However, chapter 112 is the "definition provision" for the true meaning of Allah.
You can choose whatever is best for you.

[David Saidi]

What is the context of the whole Quran?

Do you follow man-made law?

That verses are literally said, explicitly and clearly.
I don't follow man-made law, I follow the Quran, the God's words and always ask Him if I find difficulties.

         to Him have submitted [all] those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

Wrong translation.
The word [all] doesn't exist in Arabic text.
I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

Therefore, how may God/god that you know?
Obviously it is a "duality concept"..
ie. equivalent to the concept of Godliness .. "equivalent" to the same category of "God/god"

But it is okay because Allah introduce Himself as God to those who are only understand the concept of Godliness
However, chapter 112 is the "definition provision" for the true meaning of Allah.
You can choose whatever is best for you.

Duality concept is Christian man-made theology/tafseer, the Scripture doesn't spoke about it.

Judaism,Christian, Islam has same origins, but different teologically.
The Deity of Abrahman monotheiist is Allah (Arabic), Ĕlāhā (Aramaic), Elohim (Hebrew), God (English).
Even both of this three religion claims the worshipp the same GOD, but their definition of GOD (theos) differs each other

[muslims]

That verses are literally said, explicitly and clearly.
I don't follow man-made law, I follow the Quran, the God's words and always ask Him if I find difficulties.

In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
and still survive to get your citizenship, proper education, medical benefits, works, electricity, internet etc.

no further comment

               And We shall (also) facilitate you (to put into practice this) easy (law). (87.8 )

Wrong translation.
The word [all] doesn't exist in Arabic text.
I believe you still follow traditional Sunni-Shia theology.

The issue is "those within the heavens and earth", and your issues are:

          1. Whether "those within the heavens and earth" is referring to "[all]"?
          2. Whether Iblees prostrate to Allah?

again, no further comment.

By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology"?

Duality concept is Christian man-made theology/tafseer, the Scripture doesn't spoke about it.

Judaism,Christian, Islam has same origins, but different teologically.
The Deity of Abrahman monotheiist is Allah (Arabic), Ĕlāhā (Aramaic), Elohim (Hebrew), God (English).
Even both of this three religion claims the worshipp the same GOD, but their definition of GOD (theos) differs each other

You can choose whatever is best for you.

For me... Allah is "One" and "Nor is there to Him any equivalent" is the Muhkamat
and what Allah is really about is the Mutasyaabihat (3.7)
Therefore and frankly, I don't really care what Allah is all about. Sorry.

[David Saidi]

In that case, you are the first person I know that reject the statutory laws..
and still survive to get proper education, works, electricity, internet etc.

Between two points, there are no relations at all.

By the way, I'm referring you direct ayat from the Quran, and how does it relate to the "Sunni-Shia theology".

You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

For me... Allah is One is the Muhkamat, and what Allah is really about is the Mutasyaabihat (3.7)

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran.
From the Quran/wahy itself Allah introduce Himself

[muslims]

Between two points, there are no relations at all.

Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

You used Sunni's translation and the translation is highly Ahadith influences.
Means you follow Sunni but don't know if you actuallfy following it.

Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
In fact, it is not an argument at all

Now... the issue you raise have no merits..
Everything prostate to Allah, including Iblees...
Because Allah is the Creator
and Iblees is quite somebody, because he was with the angels when Allah commanded him to prostrate to Adam..

Bring me a verse from the Quran that says Iblees do not prostrate to Allah
This is your burden of proof

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran.
From the Quran/wahy itself Allah introduce Himself

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran as "One", this is the Muhkamat
and  Allay says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent", this is also the Muhkamat

Therefore, the issue you raise have no merits because your argument is.. Allah is God, in Islam
However ..
         Christians says, Jesus is God!
         Jews says, YHVH is God!
         Hinduist says, Lord Shiva is God!
         Chinese says.. God!
         Buddhist says.. God!
         and so on...

         There are many God(s)

Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
All those God(s) belong to the same category
They are "equivalent"
But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

[David Saidi]

Hadith is a "man-made law", whether it is from Muhammad or not.

Yes, of course

Why don't you stick to the fact rather than relying on fallacy and ad hominem to make your point
It is irrelevant, and a waste of time and energy...
In fact, it is not an argument at all

Yes, and yourself did some "burden of proof".
You keep used Sunni theology to discuss with me, while myself don't recognized it.

Aristoles Fallacy : the most hypocryte methodolgy used to divert the issues  (to make the users keep for being stubborn).

Ad hominem right ?? In verse 2:18, 2:17, Did God Himself  also ad hominem 

Allah is clearly defined in the Quran as "One", this is the Muhkamat
and  Allay says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent", this is also the Muhkamat

Therefore, the issue you raise have no merits because your argument is Allah is God, in Islam
However ..
         Christians says, Jesus is God!
         Jews says, YHVH is God!
         Hinduist says, Lord Shiva is God!
         Chinese says.. God!
         Buddhist says.. God!
         and so on...

         There are many God(s)

Therefore, the concept of "God(s)" is equivalent, the One True Creator in all those religions
All those God(s) belong to the same category
They are "equivalent"
But Allah says "Nor is there to Him any equivalent"

Please learn diffences between God and god in english
Allah is singular and the plural form is Alihah, so this is not a proper noun