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Started by muslims, August 21, 2013, 09:35:58 PM

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muslims

Salam,

I was wondering whether it is right to follow
  - Allah Alone
  - Hadeeth Alone
  - Allah and Hadeeth Alone
  - Sect or Majority Alone
  - Christian Alone
  - Jews Alone
  - Buddha Alone
  - Hindu Alone
  - Religion Alone
  - Neither any of the above alone (atheist)

or

  - Allah and "Just and Balance" Alone (Sunnatullah)
    accept all that are "Just and Balance" (Sunnatullah = Universe = Khalif = Prophets).

In case following the Sunnatullah is the right way
please show in logical ways from the Quran:
   1. How to follow the Sunnatullah without disobeying other terms in the Quran
   2. How to extract and apply the "system" of Sunnnatullah ("just and balance") in "ourselves".



God commands

justice
CREATING BALANCE
in the society

benefiting
humanity

kindness
to His creation

and giving
to relatives [...]

(16/90 < click for actual text)



Ignominy shall be their portion
wheresoever they are found

save (where they grasp)

a rope from Allah
and
a rope from men

(<a href="http://quran.com/3/112">3:112]



Facts 1: Is there an ideology of Allah Alone in Islam?

         And certainly We created you
         then We fashioned you
         then We said to the angels
         Prostrate to Adam
         So they did prostrate except Iblis
         he was not of those who prostrated
         He said: What hindered you
         so that you did not prostrate when I commanded you?
         He said: I am better than he
         Thou hast created me of fire
         while him Thou didst create of dust
         (7:11-12)


Angels prostrate to Allah and Khalif

There is no evidence in the Quran
that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah

Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

Iblees is "Allah Alone"
"He refused and he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers" (2:34)
Because Iblees is trying to outsmart Allah's command.



Facts 2: Whether Iblees following the Sunnatullah (just and balance)?


Sura Al-Hijr and Al-Qalam

  Premise 1: Allah only misguides the Disbelievers.

             So leave Me and him who rejects this announcement
             We will overtake them by degrees
             from whence they perceive not
             And I do bear with them, surely My plan is firm
             (68:44-45)

  Premise 2: Iblees only misguides the Disbelievers.

             He said: My Lord! because Thou hast made life evil to me
             I will certainly make (evil) fair-seeming to them on earth
             and I will certainly cause them all to deviate
             EXCEPT Thy servants from among them, the devoted ones.
             (39:41)

  Therefore: Iblees_____________________________ ?


Sura Baqarah

  Premise 1: Angels associate Allah with Adam.
  Premise 2: Iblees does not associate Allah with Adam.
  Therefore: Iblees_________________________________ ?

     And when We said to the angels
     Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance
     but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud
     and he was one of the unbelievers
     (2:34)


Sura al-Araf

  Premise 1: Iblees commits mischief with Allah's permission.
  Premise 2: Human commits mischief without Allah's permission.
  Therefore: Iblees__________________________________ ?

     (Iblees) said, "Reprieve me until the Day they are resurrected."
     (Allah) said, "Indeed, you are of those reprieved."
     (7:14-15)


Facts 3: Whether all religion and creatures following the Sunnatullah (Just and Balance)?

     Is it then other than Allah's "dīni" (دِينِ) that they seek
     and to Him submits (Islam - أَسْلَمَ)
     whoever is in the heavens and the earth
     willingly or unwillingly
     and to Him shall they be returned
     (4:83)

     (2:111-115)



Facts 4: Whether following Muhammad and/or any other Prophets, OR following the Sunnatullah (Just and Balance)?

     Ibrahim was not a Jew
     nor a Christian
     but he was (an) upright (man) - (showing a great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way)
     a Muslim
     and he was not one of the polytheists (refer to 30:32)

     Most surely the nearest of people to Ibrahim
     are those
     who followed him
     and this Prophet
     and those who believe

     and Allah is the guardian of the believers
     (3:67-68)




Please give your opinion so that we can share different perspectives and take thought.


There shall be no sin
     unto those who believe
        and do good works
          for what they may have eaten (in the past)

So
     be mindful of your duty
        and believe
           and do good works

and again
     be mindful of your duty
        and believe

and once again
     be mindful of your duty
        and do right

Allah loveth the good

(5:93)



Peace.  :sun:

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

muslims




And whoever seeks a "dīnan" (دِينًا) other than Islam
it will NEVER be accepted of him
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(3:85)

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

faruk

Salam. Good collection of ayats. What is your opinion and perspectives? What is our duty?
39:18 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.

muslims

Quote from: faruk on August 22, 2013, 12:11:03 AM
Salam. Good collection of ayats. What is your opinion and perspectives? What is our duty?

Salam faruk,

Short but very difficult question.

It is always starts with ourselves; ie. duty to ourselves.

     O you who believe!
     take care of your souls
     he who errs cannot hurt you when you are on the right way
     to Allah is your return, of all (of you)
     so He will inform you of what you did.
     (5:105)

What is our first duty?

Duty to understand message of the Qur'an.

Message that will guide us to what is "balance" and "just".

Wherever there is an element of "balance", then there will be justice.

Don't stand up for the law, majority, right, wrong etc.. these are "ideas" .. illusions.

But stand up for what is just and balance... Sunnatullah. These are "reality".

Accordingly, I cannot guide you, no one can. (40:33)

The concept of "just and balance" are flexible.

Changing according to the people, time and situation etc.

Balance between the maslahat and mudharat, and its awwaliyah (eg. Khidr).

Thus, it is only Allah that can guide you.

I can only tell you my personal beliefs, ie. how to understand the message of the Qur'an.


1. What language is the Qur'an?

   The Qur'an uses "Language Of The Heart".


2. How to acquire "Language Of The Heart" ? (56:77-79)

   Free ourselves from Shirk. Become a Muslim. 100% obedience.

   Surrender to our Terms and Conditions of Contract, the Qur'an .. and don't try to outsmart Allah.

   Smart and brilliant people can never know reality and Allah. Because they are too smart.


3. How to surrender?

   We can never surrender to Allah before we are able to shut off the "gods and ulemas inside us".

   The gods and ulemas are not outside there, but it is within ourselves. (45:23)

   It is the voice within ourselves that are making us committing shirk.

   Nothing out there are affecting us if we can shut off the "gods and ulemas inside us".


4. How to shut off the "gods and ulemas inside us"?

   Sincere. Read the Qur'an. Consciousness. Remembrance of Allah. Dzikir. Fasting. Meditation.


5. How can we know that we are ready to understand the true meaning of the Qur'an?

   When the "gods and ulemas inside us" became the words of Allah, only the words of Allah.
   
   "...Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior..." (33:4)


6. What can we do after understand the true meaning of the Qur'an?

   We can go out there and fulfill our duties to the society, etc.

   "Benefiting humanity" .. and whatever you do will not cause corruption on earth.

   Allah will guide and protect you.



The Formula

     It is He who has sent among the unlettered
     a Messenger from themselves
          1. reciting to them His verses and
          2. purifying them and
          3. teaching them the Book
          4. and wisdom
     although they were before in clear error
     (62:2)

     These are verses of the Book of Wisdom
     (31:2)

     I swear by the Quran full of wisdom
     (36:2)

     Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the wise Book.
     (10:1)

     And surely it is in the original of the Book with Us, truly elevated, full of wisdom.
     (43:4)

     He grants wisdom to whom He pleases
     and whoever is granted wisdom
     he indeed is given a great good
     and none but men of understanding mind
     (2:269)

     Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth
     a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp
     the lamp is in a glass
     (and) the glass is as it were a brightly shining star
     lit from a blessed olive-tree
     neither eastern nor western
     the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not
     light upon light
     Allah guides to His light whom He pleases
     and Allah sets forth parables for men
     and Allah is Cognizant of all things
     (24:35)


Peace.  :sun:

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

muslims



Allah

Reality
(Khalif)
(Witnessing and understanding 99 attributes of Allah in the Universe)
(Only then we will understand what is "Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameen")
( صدق الله العظيم)

Soul

Heart
(Language of the Heart)
(Understanding of the Qur'an)

(requirement = 100% obedience)

Mind

In between
(Top Buddhist Monk +/- ??)

Nafs
(We are here - nafs-i-ammara )
Scientist and Philosopher?

Animal
(requirement = 0% obedience)
(7:176)

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

muslims

The simplest thing is always the hardest thing to do
(5:101 ... "DO NOT" ask.. obey or disobey?)(75:19)(2:67-71)

Auliya <--------------------+
(10:62-64)                  |
                    Whether
True Believer               |
(49:15)(8:2)                |
                         We
Believer                    |
(49:17)                     |
                       Can
Reformers                   |
(5:93)(9:91)(9:120)         |
                      Skip
Fasiqun etc.                |
(minor disobedience)        |
(2:27)(5:47)                |
                       This
Muslim                      |
(49:14-17)(39:12)           |
                     Stages?
ISLAM  <---------------+
(Islam is a contract to obey)(2:27)

Borderline < - - - None can dispute about the Signs of Allah but the Unbelievers. [40:4]
(breach of contract)

DISBELIEVER
(disobedience)

Munafiqoon
(disobey silently)
(2:8)

Mushrikeen
(disobey openly)
(39:38)(30:30-32)(6:121)(6:150)

True Disbeliever
(2:6)

Prehuman ?
(8:22)

Such has been the course of Allah (Sunnatullah) that has indeed run before
and you shall not find a change in Allah's course
(48:23)



* a simple draft for easy understanding and not necessarily in order or most accurate

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

muslims

Here is my proof.

Language of the Heart: 56:77-79, 41:44, 25:44, 83:13-14, 9:124-125, 7:146, 40:69-70, 41:5, 40:33, 17:46, 6:25, 18:57, and 2:171.

There is more in the Qur'an, and you can check for yourself.

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

farida

salaam+ brother

I read and re-read your posts above, I could not find any wrong step you are taking there but then it's only me I could have easily overlooked, so far you have put it in the right order with references from the Qur'aan precisely to the point. This is going to be so helpful for all us who want to learn further. Let's see who can refute what you further explain below after all you have provided all the references from the Qur'aan to support you argument all we need to do is to click on the link, how smart. :sun:

Shaiytaan/iblis:

Angels prostrate to Allah and Khalif

There is no evidence in the Quran
that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah

Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

Iblees is "Allah Alone"
"He refused and he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers" (2:34)
Because Iblees is trying to outsmart Allah's command 

2. How to acquire "Language Of The Heart"(56:77-79) ? 


bisimillilaah
bi---si----mi->laah

Welcome to the world of the mind and start your journey from mind  fi/in the hidden Book (56:77-79) As you put it in the right in Reply #4 above  :bravo:
Your heart will be filled with joy and you will say again and again;
subhaanallaah  :hail
:sun:
+salaam
Ps: You mind is working so fast I can't keep up  :yes I am only replying  :) I still have to read your last post  ;D

muslims

Salam farida,

The mind itself is quite mysterious since it contains the conscious mind, the subconcious mind and some say the superconcious mind. What we are witnessing today are only the mind power, and not on its full optimization. It is a very looooonnnnnnnnnnggggggg journey to reach the sovereign of the heart. However we do need to cleanse our nafs and mind before it produce the signal required to penetrate the heart (Qalbi Salim) .. 100% obedience. Only our heart can communicate with our soul. No shortcut.

Such has been the course of Allah (Sunnatullah) that has indeed run before
and you shall not find a change in Allah's course
(48:23)

Peace  :sun:

[url=http://muslimatheism.org]Muslim Atheism[/url] is a theological position for the disbelief in god, religion and the unspecific
but the practical philosophy from the Quran are followed

farida

Quote from: muslims on August 22, 2013, 06:23:38 AM
Salam farida,

The mind itself is quite mysterious since it contains the conscious mind, the subconcious mind and some say the superconcious mind. What we are witnessing today are only the mind power, and not on its full optimization. It is a very looooonnnnnnnnnnggggggg journey to reach the sovereign of the heart. However we do need to cleanse our nafs and mind before it produce the signal required to penetrate the heart (Qalbi Salim) .. 100% obedience. Only our heart can communicate with our soul.

Peace  :sun:

100%  :handshake:

The journey is Long but small first step towards the right path leads towards Qalbi salim = sa-liym

May ALLAAH guide all to learn of His knowledge inshaa ALLAAH

+salaam