Author Topic: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam  (Read 8976 times)

supportpeacenotwar

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2013, 06:41:04 PM »
Anyone can say anyone else is a wishful thinker. Non-religious people will say many muslims including us and any religious people are wishful thinkers. What matters is someone's intent and whether they hold onto bitterness and things like that.

God says He is subtle, and there are subtle hints in the Quran about the nature of belief and God's Mercy in relation to it as per what Isa states on the Day of Judgement in Surah 5.
The above post may no longer represent my beliefs based on evidence and considering such topics further.
I no longer follow a "Quran only" approach.
I would simply say I follow Islam.

diamantinehoneybunch

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2013, 08:15:26 PM »
Salaam.

"Women who are married to women can still get pregnant by semen/sperm donation"
Who are the donators? MEN! Not the women themselves.

"Not only gays can get HIV. It is also because of promiscuity."
Promiscuity is also not a good thing.

Sorry if I am offending LGBT supporters here. I am not really against homosexuals but I just don't believe that homosexuality is okay for humans. I know that there are some men who were born to be transvestites (naturally, not the fake one) but these people are only interested im girly/feminine things esp pink color. Many of them just stay single throughout their life and are never interested to get married. Many of them are active in make-ups and fashion-designing.

:peace:
This profile is dead. It was assasinated by its owner :D

I am no longer of an adherent or believer of any religion. So some of my views that have been expressed here may no longer represent or reflect my current views.

Sonny

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2013, 11:23:44 PM »
You need to remember that the Quran says most people are not believers which indicate a grand majority. You are very alone and even among those who follow God alone there are many people who are destined for Hell because they interpret the scripture through wishful thinking and the vice. But you still need to stay with those who believe and be kind and open because among the black sheep there are some white sheep, if you know what I mean.

I know, you always have a good advice  ;)

Khaliq

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2013, 02:13:23 AM »
I've got to say I'm with Abdul-Hadi on this one; homosexuality is found in nature and has been observed in hundreds of species.

Ducks, dolphins, giraffes, the Japanese macaque (I always knew it as the snow monkey; had to google its name), penguins (remember the kerfuffle on about two gay penguins on TV a few years ago?), sheep, dogs and even lions have been observed as homosexual. Even fruit flies. Bonobos are bisexual, they hump each other like crazy and over the slightest thing. Scientists have noticed many others; these are just off the top of my head.

You don't get much more natural than found in dozens of species.

My cousin is homosexual; he said to another member of the family that he doesn't know why some people think it's a choice. It's as much a choice for him as it is for us heteros to "choose" to be sexually attracted to a member of the same sex. Can you imagine choosing to be picked on, discriminated against, and marginalized? It's little wonder so many homosexuals either stop practising their religion or leave it altogether.

So we're left with few options here. Either God is not all-knowing or all-powerful with these (astaghfirullah) or it's not being interpreted correctly by man; I choose the latter. God (swt) asks us as early as Surah al-Baqarah, "afala ta'qilun?" -- will you not use your intellect? And with the recent increase in observation in this subject, I feel we have little choice but to accept it.

hawk99

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2013, 02:50:51 AM »
Peace sonny,

Life may not be as simple as we would like sometimes:


This was copied from wikipedia

Humans Main article: Intersex


Aside from having an ambiguous-looking external genitalia, true hermaphroditism in humans differs from pseudohermaphroditism in which the person's karyotype has both XX and XY chromosome pairs (47XXY, 46XX/46XY, 46XX/47XXY or 45X/XY mosaic) and having both testicular and ovarian tissue. One possible pathophysiologic explanation of this rare phenomenon is a parthenogenetic division of a haploid ovum into two haploid ova. Upon fertilization of the two ova by two sperm cells (one carrying an X and the other carrying a Y chromosome), the two fertilized ova are then fused together resulting in a person having dual genitalial, gonadal (ovotestes) and genetic sex.

Another common cause of hermaphroditism is the crossing over of the SRY from the Y chromosome to the X chromosome during meiosis. The SRY is then activated in only certain areas, causing development of testes in some areas by beginning a series of events starting with the upregulation of SOX9, and in other areas not being active (causing the growth of ovarian tissues). Thus, testicular and ovarian tissues will both be present in the same individual

There is a picture of an intersex person here for those who would like to see it, but
be forewarned it may be offensive, it is a person with both sex organs.

scroll down, and on the right you will see the picture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite#Humans

The subject of the series, whose name was never released, was an intersex person with a male build and stature, but may have self-identified as female. The subject had a small, probably hypospadic, penis, rudimentary scrotum, and male pubic hair pattern. The subject also had a retracted or rudimentary clitoral hood and vaginal opening.[1] In most photographs the subject's face and breasts are covered.[6]



The secret to monotheism can be found in the garden

BornAgain

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2013, 04:08:20 AM »
Salaam,

Don't let what others believe influence your own faith. What the majority believes does not necessarily mean it is contained in the Qur'aan. Firmly hold on to your belief (provided that you are not causing any harms to others), and let the rest bark. Essentially you are responsible to and judged by God, and not other human beings.

For me personally, simply having a homosexual tendency is not a sin because some people are really born with it. That being said, I don't believe that engaging in homosexual acts is compatible with the Qur'aan. Two different things here. I guess being born a homosexual is a trial in life for some people (a very difficult trial, that is), but that does not necessarily justify homosexual acts.
?For peace of mind, we need to resign as general manager of the universe.?

?When you judge another you do not define them, you define yourself.?

?Time may heal physical pain but only love can heal emotional pain.?

?My life has been full of terrible misfortunes, most of which never happened.?

huruf

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2013, 10:53:50 AM »
I've got to say I'm with Abdul-Hadi on this one; homosexuality is found in nature and has been observed in hundreds of species.

Ducks, dolphins, giraffes, the Japanese macaque (I always knew it as the snow monkey; had to google its name), penguins (remember the kerfuffle on about two gay penguins on TV a few years ago?), sheep, dogs and even lions have been observed as homosexual. Even fruit flies. Bonobos are bisexual, they hump each other like crazy and over the slightest thing. Scientists have noticed many others; these are just off the top of my head.

You don't get much more natural than found in dozens of species.

My cousin is homosexual; he said to another member of the family that he doesn't know why some people think it's a choice. It's as much a choice for him as it is for us heteros to "choose" to be sexually attracted to a member of the same sex. Can you imagine choosing to be picked on, discriminated against, and marginalized? It's little wonder so many homosexuals either stop practising their religion or leave it altogether.

So we're left with few options here. Either God is not all-knowing or all-powerful with these (astaghfirullah) or it's not being interpreted correctly by man; I choose the latter. God (swt) asks us as early as Surah al-Baqarah, "afala ta'qilun?" -- will you not use your intellect? And with the recent increase in observation in this subject, I feel we have little choice but to accept it.


It is not a universal law: some people do not choose but many people do choose. Many people do not have the kind of reasons you say to pick to have realtions with the same sex. They do choose to have realtionships with the same sex. I agree that for some it is not a choice, but that is not valid for all that do have those relations, and from what I know, for many it is something they choose, and if they chose to have relations with women they would have them with no problem, but somesex has its own pull from the lust point of view.

Also there is a grey area where it may not be so much a question of choice but a question of sociological conditioning, like having your emotional make up thwarted by being forced into a masculine or feminine sociological gender. 

We may have left some sexual tabus, but my how have run to acquire some others as fast as possible. And that diotic division of people between homo and hetero is artificial, lying, useless and harmful.

Salaam

Abdul-Hadi

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2013, 11:35:19 AM »
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

In any case, I'm pretty sure that all can agree that promiscuity and acting on unbridled lust fall within the understanding of what is prohibited--homosexuality/bisexuality is not a "blank check" to indulge in what is prohibited.

However, dislike of homosexuality/homosexual acts is not a blank check to be ugly to other people, either.

4:36 And serve GOD and do not set up anything with Him, and do good to the parents, and the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the neighbor who is a relative, and the neighbor nearby, and the friend nearby, and the wayfarer, and those maintained by your oaths. GOD does not love the arrogant, the boastful.

4:86 And if you are greeted with a greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. GOD is Reckoning over all things.

4:94 O you who believe, if you go forth in the cause of GOD, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to those who greet you with peace: "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with GOD are many riches. That is how you were before, but GOD graced you, so investigate carefully. GOD is expert over what you do.

2:44 Do you exhort the people to do good, but forget yourselves, while you are reciting the Book? Do you not comprehend?

49:11 O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.

10:109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.

5:8 O you who believe, stand for GOD and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of GOD. GOD is expert over what you do.

2:256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in GOD, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. GOD is Hearer, Knower.


ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi
 

PixelAngelBaby

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2013, 12:31:08 PM »
Salam,

Although I sympathize with homosexuals who sincerely cannot help who they are attracted to (I can be attracted to the same sex too at times, I have always been like that), I have something to say to those who say homosexuality is natural because animals do it.

If that is true..and it is...

Then Pedophilia is natural too!

So is eating the placenta after childbirth and killing/eating family members.

Have you seen any documentaries on Bonobo monkeys?


So using the animal kingdom to measure what is right or "natural" or wrong in the Quran...is pretty useless in my opinion. Just because something occurs in nature, doesn't mean it's "right".

Now, if you can without a shadow of a doubt, find proof within the Quran that homosexuality is okay, then I'm all ears. I have seen Farouk's video on youtube about this and it did intrigue me. It made some sense to me. But I'm not entirely sure I'm totally convinced.

At the same time, I don't condone violence towards homosexuals. They are free to be with who they want, it's none of my business. But I don't think it's necessarily right.

And for the person who qouted the verse that says Lot's people committed lewdness no one else before them has done...

What if Allah means no one committed lewdness of that magnitude? It seems the whole town was leaving their mates and sleeping around!

And where is the evidence that we know a date in history of when these people existed? in order to compare it to the cave man drawings of homosexuality?

...I hate these scholars looming over us, in the shadows, wherever we go they appear. Scholars, scholars, scholars...

PixelAngelBaby

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2013, 12:42:02 PM »
On the other hand, what would righteous, godfearing homosexuals look like in an islamic society, if it is acceptable?

I suppose gay and lesbian couples would just live normally as any other couples. Praying, reading Quran, giving alms and zakat, enjoining righteousness with their community, doing good deeds, feeding the poor, fasting, performing hajj...etc

One thing that I think homosexuals may be of benefit to society is the adoption of orphans. Since they cannot procreate, it would make sense to adopt, and that helps give these children homes and people to care for them. The debate for this though is whether or not same sex couples can prove to be effective role models for children in terms of gender roles and whatnot. But I honestly don't think it's that bad.

I don't really know, im just speculating. Allah knows best and may He guide us and provide us with the correct understanding.

...I hate these scholars looming over us, in the shadows, wherever we go they appear. Scholars, scholars, scholars...