Author Topic: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam  (Read 8997 times)

Sonny

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One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« on: July 19, 2013, 07:07:34 AM »
Peace,
Some of the free-minds users here said to me that I am a bigot
just because I'm strongly against homosexuality. Not because I'm coming
from sunni islam but because I see Quran as Natural Law and homosexuality
is not natural in any way, maybe only if you call it mental illnes. Now,
 I will give you few reasons why homosexuality is not natural and if you
guys give me ONE, just ONE good reason that homosexuality is natural
I promise I'm leaving Islam and this forum forever.

Why homosexualty is not natural:

1. male and male cannot have babies and produce new life
2. male and male sex is dangerous (HIV), sooner or later they got sick
3. If God is not against homosexuals why they got sick by nature
4. female and female cannot have babies as well
5. If homosexuality is not forbidden why God didn't just told us that in the Scripture
6. It is mentioned in Quran more than once that homosexualtiy is forbidden
7. All religions deny homosexuality except satanism which promote this. eg. Alistair Crowley
8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

Just few verses from the Quran:

26.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

27.55 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

29.28-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

I think there is 1. or 2. more verses which clearly reject homosexuality.



Your turn, shoooot me??!! - Oh wait, you have no bullets hahaha

kgwithnob

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 08:20:26 AM »
Peace,
Some of the free-minds users here said to me that I am a bigot
just because I'm strongly against homosexuality. Not because I'm coming
from sunni islam but because I see Quran as Natural Law and homosexuality
is not natural in any way, maybe only if you call it mental illnes. Now,
 I will give you few reasons why homosexuality is not natural and if you
guys give me ONE, just ONE good reason that homosexuality is natural
I promise I'm leaving Islam and this forum forever.

Why homosexualty is not natural:

1. male and male cannot have babies and produce new life
2. male and male sex is dangerous (HIV), sooner or later they got sick
3. If God is not against homosexuals why they got sick by nature
4. female and female cannot have babies as well
5. If homosexuality is not forbidden why God didn't just told us that in the Scripture
6. It is mentioned in Quran more than once that homosexualtiy is forbidden
7. All religions deny homosexuality except satanism which promote this. eg. Alistair Crowley
8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

Just few verses from the Quran:

26.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

27.55 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

29.28-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

I think there is 1. or 2. more verses which clearly reject homosexuality.



Your turn, shoooot me??!! - Oh wait, you have no bullets hahaha

I do agree with you 100%. May GOD bless you and lead us all to His straight path.

Peace,
Khalil

diamantinehoneybunch

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 08:25:24 AM »
Peace,

You are leaving Islam? Then what faith are you going to hold/have?

Bro, just because some people here calling you bigots? They have affected your faith? And now you are leaving Islam because of these LGBT supporter bigots?

It is your right to choose religion.
If you are leaving Islam then what religion/faith are you going to embrace? Catholicism? Protestants? Unitarian? Methodist? Atheism? Agnosticism?

Tbh I also do not consider homosexuality a right thing. It is either a type of mental illness or stupidity/egotism. Factually homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness until some gay bigots protested against APA in around 1971.

Or is "I'm leaving Islam" a sarcasm?
This profile is dead. It was assasinated by its owner :D

I am no longer of an adherent or believer of any religion. So some of my views that have been expressed here may no longer represent or reflect my current views.

Sonny

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 08:38:30 AM »
Or is "I'm leaving Islam" a sarcasm?

It is not sarcasm, I'm 100% serious about this. If they prove that I'm wrong I will keep my promise. But they can't do that, I'm 100% sure.

huruf

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 09:14:38 AM »
The problem is the word "natural". ?What does it mean? First define it. Otherwise it is empty talk.

Abdul-Hadi

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2013, 09:47:02 AM »
Greetings and peace, all  :group:

I'll insert my comments in red in the original post, then present additional evidence after the post.

Peace,
Some of the free-minds users here said to me that I am a bigot
just because I'm strongly against homosexuality. Not because I'm coming
from sunni islam but because I see Quran as Natural Law and homosexuality
is not natural in any way, maybe only if you call it mental illnes. Now,
 I will give you few reasons why homosexuality is not natural and if you
guys give me ONE, just ONE good reason that homosexuality is natural
I promise I'm leaving Islam and this forum forever.

Why homosexualty is not natural:

1. male and male cannot have babies and produce new life

Neither can a post-menopausal woman nor a sterile person produce babies. Sex is not limited to procreation.

2. male and male sex is dangerous (HIV), sooner or later they got sick

HIV and other STDs are not limited to homosexuals. Promiscuity and not sexual orientation is largely to blame for STDs.

3. If God is not against homosexuals why they got sick by nature

ALLAH has created homosexual animals! Homosexuals are not naturally sickly in any case.

4. female and female cannot have babies as well

Through artificial insemination, this *is* possible.

5. If homosexuality is not forbidden why God didn't just told us that in the Scripture

AQ is complete and fully detailed. Also, 16:116.

6. It is mentioned in Quran more than once that homosexualtiy is forbidden

Burden is on you to show this.

7. All religions deny homosexuality except satanism which promote this. eg. Alistair Crowley

What do other religions have to do with the Deen?

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of GOD; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

However... Reform Judaism, Unitarian Universalism, United Church of Christ, some denominations of Vedanta, and Metropolitan Community Church accept homosexuals, for example of non Satanist religions.

8. there is no solid proof of "born gay" people, even professionals cannot prove this

There is no counterproof either, this is a moot point.

Just few verses from the Quran:

26.165-166 "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!"

If the people left their mates, then they are adulterers.

2:221 And do not marry the female polytheists until they believe. For a believing female servant is better than a polytheist even if she attracts you. And do not marry the male polytheists until they believe. For a believing male servant is better than a polytheist even if he attracts you. Those invite to the Fire, while GOD is inviting to the Paradise and forgiveness by His consent. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.

Seeing that the audience is male, it seems that male to male marriage is encouraged!

27.55 Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!

Approaching the men is acting on homosexuality--not that acting lustful to other than one's spouse is considered acceptable anyway.

29.28-29 And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of God if thou tellest the truth."

This is easily disputed in relation to forbidding homosexuality. Homosexuality existed well before the people of Lot. Other crimes are also mentioned.

I think there is 1. or 2. more verses which clearly reject homosexuality.



Your turn, shoooot me??!! - Oh wait, you have no bullets hahaha

Your oath was made on impulse. Nobody wants to drive you from the Deen. However, truth will not be held hostage by your oath!

2:225 GOD will not call you to account for your casual oaths, but He will call you to account for what has entered your hearts. GOD is Forgiving, Compassionate.

Here is refutation to "homosexuality is not natural":

Acknowledge that AQ is not ridiculous.

Acknowledge that physical evidence is not ridiculous.

Refute that ALLAH created people differently, as is stated in AQ 30:22.

Refute that ALLAH gave us signs in nature, as is stated in AQ 2:26 and 2:164.

Refute that ALLAH created homosexual animals, as are found in nature.

Refute that AQ 29:29 lists reasons aside from male homosexuality that the people of Lot might have been destroyed.

Refute that the women among the people of Lot were innocent of male-male sex.

Refute that the women among the people of Lot were destroyed alongside the men among the people of Lot.

Refute that AQ 2:221 is addressed to males.

Refute that there is no compulsion in the Deen, as is stated in AQ 2:256.

Refute that homosexuality is depicted in cave paintings that physically exist that have been dated to be around 12,000 years old.

Refute that homosexuality existed at least 5,000 years ago among humans in Mesopotamia, as is found among physical existing evidence.

Refute that the people of Lot were destroyed around 1953 BCE.

Refute that circa 3000 BCE is before 1953 BCE.

Refute that over a thousand years span the time between the recorded homosexual acts in Mesopotamia and the time that the people of Lot were destroyed.

Refute that AQ 7:80 refers to lewdness "such as none of the worlds had done before."

Acknowledge that no person alive was present among the people of Lot.

Refute that AQ 17:36 states not to uphold what one has no knowledge of.

Acknowledge that physical evidence can comprise knowledge.

Acknowledge that knowledge is better than conjecture.

Refute that AQ 10:59 and 16:116 state that it is wrong to forbid what ALLAH has not forbidden, that doing so is a lie, and that those who invent lies about ALLAH will not succeed.

2:26 GOD does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say: "What does GOD intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.

Wouldn't you know it? There are homosexual mosquitos!

Not only this but:

"... No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

source: http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx


There is also the "problem" of homosexuality being attraction towards the same sex--whether acted upon or not.

Homosexuality seems to be a non-issue, at least for the Deen.

Think about it.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:

~Abdul-Hadi

kgwithnob

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 09:51:23 AM »
The problem is the word "natural". ?What does it mean? First define it. Otherwise it is empty talk.

It means, it is completely against the GRAIN of the EVOLUTION. Sexuality is an evolutionary phenomenon, necessitating the existence and participation of opposite sexes, i.e. a male and a female for successful continuation of the species.

Peace,
Khalil       

Earthdom

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2013, 10:00:33 AM »
Peace Sonny and all.

First your action for leaving Islam is too hasty, I think.

Actually I never really hate you, but what I hate from you is for the way you get discussion.
The proper example is in the Notsure's homosexual thread.In that thread you only pursue your hatred, emotion, abandoning the ethics by repeated same verses in many posts by avoiding another member's post such like @Emil which actually gave you the bright evidences.

Yeah maybe it's your type:Emotion first then thinking.Your emotion easily raised, so thats why you cannot properly understanding another member's advice like @Emil's instead keeping gave the same arguments.

This is NotSure's thread if you forgotten: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605357.0

I think that thread is enough to gave you some points such like:

7:80   And Lot, he said to his people: "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"

If what Lot said about lewdness is homosexual , then it will contradict to the fact

Recently Abdul-Hadi and Indelwyn posting some evidences, if homosexual already happened before Sodom's era.So the lewdness commited by Sodom is not homosexual.

The more important is if you bring the verses for your base, first you must investigate the verse's translation, because you may already knew if some Sunni manmade translation still contains innovation which will fit for sectarian fatwa agenda.

In the last, I even didn't care if you pro or anti homosexual, but atleast respect someone who have different argument from you.

Btw please forgive me if my words insulting you  :handshake:.

Salaam



Sonny

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2013, 10:09:34 AM »
Think about it.

ALLAH knows best.

 :peace:
~Abdul-Hadi

I said give me the  proof not speculations. As Einstein said: “If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”

Sonny

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Re: One good reason and I'm leaving Islam
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 10:11:47 AM »

Recently Abdul-Hadi and Indelwyn posting some evidences, if homosexual already happened before Sodom's era.So the lewdness commited by Sodom is not homosexual.


This is not thread about sodom and gomorrah. You guys giving me nothing but speculations, what if, what if, what if.... What if you just give me damn proof.