Author Topic: What happens when the Thief Steals Again?  (Read 2977 times)

Earthdom

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Re: What happens when the Thief Steals Again?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 08:27:37 AM »
There are good explanations from this sites:

http://www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/cut-off-hands-theft.htm

or from Reformist Translation:

Quote
DISCUSSION OF 5:38
The Quran often uses words with more than one applicable and relevant meaning. This leads to verses
that mean two, three, or more things at the same time, verses that make the translator's job exquisitely
difficult.
We come now to such a verse. The verb form we translated as "mark, cut, or cut off" comes from a
root verb -- QaTa'A ? that occurs in the Quran many times. In almost all of its occurrences in the
Quran, this verb means "to sever a relationship" or "to end an act." Only in two instances (12:31 and
12:50) is this verb clearly used to describe a physical cutting; in another instance (69:46), the verb
might possibly be interpreted in that way. A related form of this same verb -- one that implies
repetition or severity of action -- occurs in the Quran seventeen times. This particular form is used to
mean physically cutting off; or as a metaphor for the severing of a relationship; or to describe
physically cutting or marking, but not cutting off.
Thus, the verse recommending punishment for theft or burglary, in the context of the Quran and its
terminology (and not the terminology or interpretation attributed to Muhammad or his followers)
provides us with a single verb ? but one that God has permitted to incorporate a range of possible
penalties. For instance:
? Cutting or marking the person's hands as a means of public humiliation and identification;
? Physically cutting off the person's hands; or
? Cutting off the person's means and resources to steal and burglarize (presumably through
rehabilitation or imprisonment).
The act of imposing any of these penalties, or any of their combinations, would of course depend on
the facts of each case, the culpability and mental capacity of the accused, and the ability of the society
as a whole to act in accordance with God's other instructions in the Quran. Note, for instance, that a
Muslim society cannot punish a hungry person for stealing food, since letting a member of the society
go hungry is a much bigger crime than the act of stealing food. Such a society actually demonstrates
the characteristics of a society of unappreciative people! (See 107:1-7; 89:17-20; and 90:6-20).
Considering theft solely as an individual crime, and advocating the severest possible interpretation of
the Quran in rendering punishment, is neither fair nor consistent with the scripture.

Lena

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Re: What happens when the Thief Steals Again?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2013, 05:25:44 AM »
e.g.1.:  the house maid or your attendant is found stealing in your home.  If we follow Quran, the path of peace. 
1.  Cut their service in peaceful manner, or
2.  Forgive him/her, or
3.  They steal because we have not paid them enough, pay more and tell them to seek forgiveness from God.

we, always look solution in Quran for practical application in the path of peace only.  This is how we should be following the Quran.



 :bravo:

Bender

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Re: What happens when the Thief Steals Again?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 09:36:48 AM »
In other words, someone robs a bank and all he gets is a slap on the wrist (literally)...well a little cut that will heal after a few days. Hahaha what a joke.

Salaamun alayka,

Obviously you forgot to answer this question from MMKhan:

Honestly tell me by witnessing Allah, did you not steal ANYTHING yet? Anything? Please be honest.

Now be a good sunni and hand your self to the mullahs who are responsible for cutting of hands.

We will see you inshaAllah again when you have learned to type with your toes.

Salaam,
Bender
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-alameen

Bigmo

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Re: What happens when the Thief Steals Again?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2013, 07:16:16 AM »
This is a very crucial question for Quranists/Hadith-rejectors.

According to Quran, Surah 5:39 (Bismillah included) the thief, male or female must have their hands cut off. This means a male thief his hand (singular) is cut off and a female thief her hand (singular) is cut off.

Now my question is what if the thief steals a second time? What does the Quran instruct in this regard? The Quran never says to cut of their other hand.

But if for sake of argument you cut off their other hand. What if thief steals again a third time? What then? What does the Pure Quran instruct in that scenario?


That depends on what you mean by cut. The Quran says justice should be just and equitable and proportional (adl and qist). It tells us that an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and a soul for a soul. Another words, the punishment should be equal to the crime. The Quran doe snot recognize deterrence or crime prevention as a justice system where the punishment can exceed the crime to act as a deterrence. Only proportional justice where the left side of the scale should equal the right side of the scale. The meezan (scale) should be balanced always.

So stealing is also dealt with in this manner. If a person steals a person hands and runs of with it than cutting his hands as you understand it makes sense and is just. But of course the Quran here does not mean amputation since losing  a hand is always going to be more harsher than stealing property and money from someone. Most people would rather lose all their money than have their hand amputated.

So justice must be reciprocal and proportional and equitable in all cases.

So
88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe

mohf

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Re: What happens when the Thief Steals Again?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2013, 02:59:57 PM »
Some streange responses here. Why not just give a straight answer?

Quran does not say to cut off the hands of thieves. It tells us to cut of the resources of the thieves. Furthermore, the Quran commands us and everyone for justice, equity. Eye for the eye, tooth for the tooth. Apple for a hand? Does that make sense?

I am not going in to much details. Please see this example from our prophet Yusuf.

Shakir 12:70-79

So when he furnished them with their provisions, (someone) placed the drinking cup in his brother's bag. Then a crier cried out: O caravan! you are most surely thieves.
They said while they were facing them: What is it that you miss?
They said: We miss the king's drinking cup, and he who shall bring it shall have a camel-load and I am responsible for it.
They said: By Allah! you know for certain that we have not come to make mischief in the land, and we are not thieves.
They said: But what shall be the requital of this, if you are liars?
They said: The requital of this is that the person in whose bag it is found shall himself be (held for) the satisfaction thereof; thus do we punish the wrongdoers.

So he began with their sacks before the sack of his brother, then he brought it out from his brother's sack. Thus did We plan for the sake of Yusuf; it was not (lawful) that he should take his brother under the king's law unless Allah pleased; We raise the degrees of whomsoever We please, and above every one possessed of knowledge is the All-knowing one.
They said: If he steal, a brother of his did indeed steal before; but Yusuf kept it secret in his heart and did not disclose it to them. He said: You are in an evil condition and Allah knows best what you state.
They said: O chief! he has a father, a very old man, therefore retain one of us in his stead; surely we see you to be of the doers of good.
He said: Allah protect us that we should seize other than him with whom we found our property, for then most surely we would be unjust.

There are very extensive articles about why the cutting of hands is an incorrect translation. Allah often refer to his Hands, his Face, etc. Surely God does not have a physical body. It is because the words wajh, ayd, raas, etc have a different meaning in the Quran.
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